This is gonna be a long ass reply, ill try be chill etc and cover everything but itll likely end up being a ramble.
I have lurked in the forum for 2 years fyi and am active on both the discord and the reddit, well not that active but i am around, so while im not as worldly as some of you, im not the most fresh faced noob.
So first off, the whole reason ive brought up carronades is that i want to use them, knowing that they arent very good, i like how the sound and the kind of damage etc they deal, it clicks in my head and i want to use them cause theyre cool. My issue is theyre literally so bad that taking them isnt putting myself at a disadvantage, its straight up not even trying to win. It forces a very specific fleet build where you have to be faster, tougher and out tonnage literally any other fleet you fight, which isnt very fun in restricting role play options, and also falls flat when spoilers *exist* and if you play on anything higher than base difficulty its not out of the question that the ai will still be faster than you.
This is why ive come here, i want to use a weapon but i literally cant. its like nuking my own planet, just guaranteed to not be a fun experience and force me to play a very set way and then still lose.
That out of the way, my next step was i just want 1 change. Remove the dramatic damage drop off and make it linear like every other weapon in the game. So a 30cm carronade would do 24 damage at 0 range and 1 damage at 240000km, but also do 12 at 120000km. This is already balanced as there is still a 60 second reload time to consider at C2 at least, and it takes twice the hull space as just about any other weapon at that tech level. This wouldnt even make it a good weapon, it would just make it an alright one. Which i think is fine, as long as its actually vaguely competitive with the other weapon types.
So with all those out of the way and hopefully a clearer picture of what im trying to achieve, im gonna dive into replies and rebuttals.
Agreed with alot of Papents comments.
Carronades are not good or effective as backup weapons. Not only are they incredibly space inefficient, which basically instantly disqualifies them from being a secondary weapon, they also suck so hard you might as well not even carry them for how much theyll actually help you. Even on a carrier fleet which has them because it also utilises Carronade bombers, chances are theyll die without a shot fired because if your carriers are tanky enough to get within 40kkm of an enemy fleet then you must be doing something insane.
Also sorry if i come off as hostile, its meant to be more incredulous and more based on fundamental disagreements i believe.
And no they are not good as an RP friendly weapon, if you mean roleplay. Unless you mean great for RP in the same way "Miscellaneous Components" are, you know, those things that do literally nothing but look pretty.
I'm strongly against balancing all weapons to the point where it doesn't really matter which one you use and all are equally good. That's fine for competitive PvP games but doesn't fit single player games, and definitely doesn't fit the character of Aurora. This like trying to make Gauss work as a primary weapon.
I disagree with this. Aurora is a game where its entire research tree is all about gradual upgrades, theres nothing revolutionary, theres no new discoveries beyond maybe the very basics of a conventional start. There is no room for weapons that are useless. All it means is that literally no one touches them with a 10 foot pole unless theyre new or insane.
Weapons dont all need to be 100% 1:1, but they do need to be at least some what effective, which is something the carronade completely fails at.
Again, Railguns and lasers are easily the best weapons in the game and im not arguing for us to make Plasma compete with them in that category, i just want it so that a carronade fleet vs a rail or laser fleet isnt a complete and instantaneous loss. If someone wants to run a duel sometime id bet 150 AUD that they couldnt make a Plasma only fleet that could beat a Rail or Laser only fleet at the same cost and research cost.
Plasma doesnt need to be great, good or excellent, it just has to be good enough, and currently, It is not.
Also gauss is good for PD, and honestly, If i saw a plasma fleet versing a gauss fleet, my money would be on the gauss. Much higher DPS, arguably better range at low tech, much much much faster firing, smaller. The list goes on. Gauss is good for pd and thats its niche, it can operate outside it but it has that 1 thing to fall back on that everyone needs. What does plasma have that everyone needs to make up for its complete ineptitude at doing literally anything else. "it can maybe jump point ambush an enemy if they dont squadron jump, and it can maybe kill something if the ai is dumb enough to close to point blank, its not cheese i swear! oh and it can maybe act as a decent STO, provided the enemy doesnt just bombard you from max range or kill them all before they even make orbit. "
Yes, there are requirements that have to be met to get the most out of the weapon. A lot of these conditions, for what it's worth, also apply to railguns, and nobody has called for a buff to railguns around here in quite some time.
The difference here is that railguns are, get this, actually good. Much longer range, much more consistent DPS over range, faster firing, can be used as DPS, are good at long and short range. a 4 shot railgun at max range does AT LEAST 4 damage. The same cannot be said for a carronade at the same range. And the railgun is doing that every 10-20 seconds or whatever, vs a carronade doing it once every 60+ seconds.
Comparing these two weapon systems is a complete non starter mate, theyre worlds different and railguns are way more effective for that broad range of applications theyre good for. And again, im not saying Plasma needs to be able to do everything railguns can, i just wish that in a straight gun fight, it stood a chance. So i could actually justify using them in a fleet instead of them literally being a comedy choice.
Also your RP cost comparisons werent great, there is no need for lasers to somehow also reach 240000km of a 30cm carronade and then using that to compare the RP costs is silly. I cant be assed making 20 quotes and fiddling with that as im not the most forum formatting savy, but i generally disagree with your assessment.
I think youll find and equal RP cost laser to just about any carronade etc will be vastly more effective.
Also didnt reduced shot railguns get nerfed in the recent update? or am i misremembering.
And yes aurora is a story generator more than an actual game, that doesnt mean carronades should suck so bad that i dont think ive ever seen anyone but a noob use them. Again, im not asking for them to out compete lasers and railguns etc, i just want them at least able to stand behind them. Currently theyre coming like 11th place in 10, i wish theyd come 4th place in 10, figuratively, compared to railguns and lasers and what not. Figuratively being the key word.
And the side benefits of carronades, while useful, dont really weigh on this conversation. And if you think they do then they should be separated into a separate tech. Theyre minimal at best anyway. Ground combat doesnt exist if you cant make orbit.
And again, take any perceived rudeness on my part as exasperation. to me the problem and solution seem like night and day, so its hard to understand how you disagree with me, try as i might. and why im here trying to convince you of my point.
I would not change most of these things as I think they work consistently with the rest of the game mechanics, damage falloff for instance works exactly as it does for other beam weapons.
What do you mean damage fall off works exactly the same as it does for other beam weapons. Plasma does a quarter of the damage at a quarter of the range, whereas literally every other beam weapon does 3 quarters of its damage at a quarter of the range. I dont understand how this is really in anyway comparable, i could be misinterpreting tho perhaps.
Miscommunication is likely why i sound like a lunatic asking if youve even looked at range stats, i suspect theres some key point me, or one of us at least, is missing in this case.
In any case i agree with lots of Papents last posts comments, surely im not the only one that sees plasma is completely incapable of not only competing with the meta weapons like railguns and lasers, but actually also completely incapable of being a credible weapon. Building a plasma fleet if basing the future of your interstellar empire on a dice throw and some cheese hoping that you can game then AI into blind jumping a jump point. Thats not fun. Thats not roleplay. Thats cheesing the AI cause its the only way to make your weapon choice work.
Anyway, I can split these posts off into their own thread if folks want to continue discussing the pros and cons of plasma carronades as otherwise it'll clutter up the Suggestion thread too much.
If we want to continue to carry on then this may be a good idea.
And god i need to login to my forum account on my phone. I had to stew on all this all day after reading your responses when i woke up. Positively agonising i tell you :P
And again, as rude as i may come off despite how i try, there are never hard feelings at the end of the day, just heated impassioned discussion.