Author Topic: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition  (Read 74366 times)

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Offline ExChairman

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #195 on: May 06, 2021, 10:12:18 AM »
And another 200 freighter/colony ships appears... 7.6m tons...  :o sitting on the warppoint... If there were warships to I wouldnt mind it, atleast somekind of tactics...

Hmmmm Would it bee better to use the Starfire size of warppoints? or a max tonnage, or another idea...
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2021, 10:44:17 AM »
And another 200 freighter/colony ships appears... 7.6m tons...  :o sitting on the warppoint... If there were warships to I wouldnt mind it, atleast somekind of tactics...

Hmmmm Would it bee better to use the Starfire size of warppoints? or a max tonnage, or another idea...

This behavior seems to happen when the NPR gets savaged in a war and their systems are marked as hostile/dangerous due to the combat going on, so the commercial/civvie ships have nowhere to go and wind up stacking at a JP waiting for something to do.
 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2021, 11:40:13 AM »
Yeah, the problem isn't that the AI is too dumb, though that happens too, of course, the problem is that the AI has no safe place to run to so they are committing suicide by running through your fleet. Something worse than Space Sweden is on the other side!
 

Offline ExChairman

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #198 on: May 06, 2021, 01:33:53 PM »
Yeah, the problem isn't that the AI is too dumb, though that happens too, of course, the problem is that the AI has no safe place to run to so they are committing suicide by running through your fleet. Something worse than Space Sweden is on the other side!

Strange thou, jumped throe and had a little look, my sensors did not reach their world but I saw some 200 more civvies spread around the entrypoint, most far away, and a large fleet of warships, some 30 from destroyer up to battlecruisers (8000-35000 tons), they managed to wound 14 of my ships before I turned back, but no loss of ship...
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Offline TheBawkHawk

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2021, 01:42:08 PM »
I just encountered my first c# star swarm... and holy moly they do not mess around. After losing my initial survey ship and 150ktons of ships I sent to deal with them, I thought I was safe at least for a few years as they were 5 jumps down from any of my populated systems. NOPE. Just a bit over 3 months and they've just popped up in my space. I don't know if they're just really fast surveyors or if they shadowed the surviving members of the fleet back home. This would be no issue if I wasn't only 25 years into a 50% tech game, and still on Ion engines. Well done on making them a menace!
 

Offline Demetrious

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #200 on: May 17, 2021, 12:55:53 AM »
I'm in a bit of a pickle.

During my initial exploration away from Sol phase I found no fewer than three NPRs, two of which I managed to avoid revealing myself to. All of them were only a few jumps out of Sol. The third one, however, not only made me upon initial detection, but soon moved into Alpha Centauri (immediately adjacent to Sol) and not only dropped an automine colony in the system, but did it on the moon of my recently terraformed planet. Then they had the temerity to start issuing the strongest threat of all - "leave or be fired upon."

However many STO's they had on that moon, it wasn't enough to win the surface-to-surface duel; and their warships/mining platforms in orbit didn't fare much better. That kicked off a major war I was ill-equipped to deal with. I had to kick ship production into overdrive; during which time my colony in Alpha Centauri defeated two more bombardments, the second one an attempted troop drop that was only narrowly defeated at the cost of 2 million lives lost to AMMs that managed to zoom through the STO CIWS coverage.

Eventually I was able to engage and defeat a small marauding fleet in Alpha Centauri and reclaim nominal control over the system, but I had another problem - Exploration Group Able had been exploring the warp chain past the alien's home system when hostilities began, and were now stranded on the far side of alien space. Fortunately their ships were built for almost ten years of constant operations and had plenty of time left to wait, but I was more worried about relentless alien expansion eventually finding them. About one and a half years after hostilities first began, I finally had the fleet I needed to attempt a breakthrough and rescue - mainly due to the launch of my first two 25,000 ton heavy cruisers of the "Salem" class; railgun ships with 25cm main guns and 10cm PD/close in batteries. With two heavily armored commercial hull, military-JD tenders, I conducted a jump point assault on the Goombridge 34/Alpha Centarui jump point and prevailed in an ugly point-blank scrap. My strike fleet went three jumps onward without meeting opposition, linked up with the exploration fleet, and returned - only for fleet scouts to detect yet another, larger, more powerful fleet camping the Goombridge 34/Alpha Centarui jump point.

The following fight was a close-run thing, and took every missile in my fleet's 50,000 ton carrier flagship, plus the threat of my powerful gunships to successfully fend off the guarding fleet - I didn't destroy even a quarter of their tonnage. After narrowly extracting my exploration fleet and warships without taking a loss, I've wiped out one more moderate-sized task-force (beelining from Goombridge 34 to the Sol jump point, presumably to teach me a lesson,) and intercepted an awful lot of their traffic moving towards systems adjacent to Alpha Centauri, which they'd already moved into. Since my main combat ships all carry small marine teams in boarding bays (as much for anti-boarding defense as anything) all this fighting ended with me in possession of no small number of their ships. Unfortunately, the majority of captured warships are missile ships.

Since the last task force in Alpha Centarui was destroyed, the "Cronulla Star Empire" has declined to send more than the occasional scout through the Goombridge 34 JP - but in the meantime, the other two NPR's have finally reached me with their exploration ships. One has just had a scout jump into a system adjacent to Alpha Centarui, and on another warp chain, I have another empire that's already set up a mining platform colony in Altair (only two jumps out of Sol via 61 Hydrae) and is now picketing the 61 Hydrae/Sol jump point with warships as if they own the place. They flatly refused my polite suggestion to leave Altair, despite a decently well developed colony of mine already in the system. It seems I will have to "show some tonnage" soon.

And now the pickle enters the equation - the wealth crunch has finally bit hard. The few years of maximized production to meet the Cronulla Empire threat and secure Alpha Centarui drained my substantial wealth buffer; given that I had to build carriers, fighters for the carriers, and missiles to arm the fighters. At present my fleet stands at no fewer than three 50,000 ton Independence-class carriers, all loaded with their full strike wings of sixty 250-ton torpedo bombers and ten 500-ton railgun fighters, with their magazines (two reloads) stocked full - but years of missile production were only enough to keep pace with ship production. I haven't a single reload on Earth to offer them, should they expend any in battle. I've four alien AMM escorts, a few missile destroyers and no fewer than four fairly decent missile cruisers (around 20-22k tonnage) but it'll take two years production of the cluster missiles I designed for them to fill their magazines so I can put them to work, to say nothing of the AMM ships. I need more of everything - more ordinance factories, more mines, more infrastructure, more fuel harvesters - but for the foreseeable future, up to a year straight, I can do nothing but build finance centers.

I really, really hope that those aliens who don't want to budge from Altair will be impressed by me slapping the full length and girth of my battle fleet against their sensors, because if they aren't, I have neither the fuel nor munitions to drive them out of Altair and also deal with an incursion from the Cronulla empire or the third, unknown factor moving up on Alpha Centauri.
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #201 on: May 17, 2021, 04:55:21 AM »
Sounds like a very fun game :)
 

Offline Demetrious

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #202 on: May 17, 2021, 05:08:38 AM »
Sounds like a very fun game :)

Hands-down the best game of Aurora I've ever played... which is why I'm still playing it at 6AM.

Thanks.  :)
 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #203 on: May 17, 2021, 09:15:37 AM »
I'm in a bit of a pickle.
...
[absolutely delicious grand strategy history and outlook]
...
I need more of everything - more ordinance factories, more mines, more infrastructure, more fuel harvesters - but for the foreseeable future, up to a year straight, I can do nothing but build finance centers.

I love it. Situations like these are what make Aurora so compelling. Keep us updated!

My one bit of advice about wealth won't do you much good right now, because it takes many, many years to pay off. It is this:

The best way to grow income over the long term is to expand your shipyards.

Why? Three reasons.

First, adding slipways or capacity to a shipyard adds more jobs per cost than building installations (except for financial centers).
Most installations add 50k jobs for a cost of 120 (or an equal multiple of those).
For the same cost, adding capacity to a shipyard gives 125k jobs.
(Financial centers, of course, are better still: they provide 50k jobs plus a 500% bonus.)

Second, it doesn't require industrial capacity.
While your factories are building financial centers, they aren't build anything else.
But expanding your shipyards leaves your factories free to build things that let you increase your impact on the galaxy.

Third, it is easier to specialize a planet for wealth creation with shipyards than with financial centers.
A wealth creation provides optimal output by using all of its workers to make money.
That means you have to build the financial centers somewhere else and haul them in.
That costs fuel and shipping capacity, and delays the return on your investment while the fincens are in transit.
But shipyards expand themselves. You tug one shipyard to the planet one time, and set it to continual capacity expansion. The bigger it gets, the faster it grows.
You only need to provide Duranium and Neutronium, and you need far less fuel and hauling capacity for this than for hauling installations around. Or you can just do it with mass drivers.

If you need to grow wealth even faster, you need to bring in another yard.
Increasing your wealth growth rate is occasionally necessary, but be aware that the cost of the new yard is steep: 2400 for 250kjobs--that's 10x the cost of adding that many jobs via expanding an existing yard.

Financial centers have two relative advantages over using yards:
1) More bang for your buck, obviously. 50k workers plus the tax equivalent of 250k workers is a 500% bonus over the normal rate. Expanding a yard provides just a 150% bonus on jobs per build cost. And expanding a yard doesn't give you more money per worker, just more money per build cost. If you are constrained by available workers, then fincens might be a better choice.

2) Shipyards require Duranium and Neutronium, which have many other uses (Neutronium is in construction factories, Duranium is in almost everything). Fincens require only Corbomite, which doesn't have any other significant uses. You probably have plenty of Corbomite lying around, but having a surplus of Duranium is unusual.

EDIT: Corrected the above point to reflect that Fincens use only Corbomite (not Corbomite and Duranium)




« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 01:06:32 PM by skoormit »
 

Offline serger

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #204 on: May 17, 2021, 09:38:55 AM »
The best way to grow income over the long term is to expand your shipyards.

That's why I cannot even imagine myself doing such thing.
Current taxation model in Aurora is rather weird and illogical, and just building shipyards to get more wealth is an absurd obviously. If you want more money - it will be much easier to just add more money in the DB, instead of this long and obvious exploit.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #205 on: May 17, 2021, 09:51:30 AM »
The best way to grow income over the long term is to expand your shipyards.

That's why I cannot even imagine myself doing such thing.
Current taxation model in Aurora is rather weird and illogical, and just building shipyards to get more wealth is an absurd obviously. If you want more money - it will be much easier to just add more money in the DB, instead of this long and obvious exploit.

It's hardly an exploit. Logically it does make sense to boost financial output by creating jobs which creates a larger tax base, maybe the actual tax rates are a bit unrealistic but as the present game balance works pretty well I think it is reasonable, and certainly we are always building and expanding shipyards anyways so it hardly impacts the decision.

Financial centers are still the best producers of wealth per BP and are obviously the most efficient beneficiaries of a +Wealth Generation governor. Frankly I don't agree with the point about specialization because in practice the better way to specialize is to have a few dozen factories on the financial hub planet to produce financial centers at a constant rate, which elides the whole shipping logistics problem.

However the other big thing about financial centers that was mentioned but should be emphasized is population efficiency, no other building gives basically 6x wealth per population point and while this is not important in the early game when you have tens of millions of unemployed workers it does become important in any situation where population is the bottleneck. This notably makes FinCens the best long-term option for primary wealth generation as population is increasingly a constraint as the game goes on especially as you need so much of it to run shipyards and research labs.
 
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Offline serger

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #206 on: May 17, 2021, 10:03:32 AM »
It's national (non-commercial) yards, so you'll create jobs, you must pay for too. It's some sort of financial perpetuum mobile.
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #207 on: May 17, 2021, 10:12:28 AM »
It's national (non-commercial) yards, so you'll create jobs, you must pay for too. It's some sort of financial perpetuum mobile.

I always took the cost of the ships built to be this payment, though I admit that I have no idea if this actually comes out to a net cash sink on balance.
 

Offline Arwyn

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #208 on: May 17, 2021, 11:04:27 AM »
My newest game is kind of a mixed bag. Its been empty of NPR's other than Precursors, but I have had some fantastic systems. One habitable world two jumps from Sol, one 3 jumps away. The two jump system has a ruined colony on it as well. Also had a couple of great systems with terraforming potential, so I am up to 10 colonies.

79 systems explored so far but, still no npr's though....
 

Offline serger

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #209 on: May 17, 2021, 11:24:11 AM »
I always took the cost of the ships built to be this payment
But you pay for these ships too.
You can run through this circle again and again, and there is no wealth there - you pay for yards, you pay for minerals, you pay for ships, you pay for crews... that's your empire expenses, not wealth.
 
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