Author Topic: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition  (Read 74391 times)

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Offline kilo

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #360 on: July 22, 2023, 12:05:28 PM »
It will be hard to engage such a vessel at distance with beam weapons, but a missile with retargeting capabilities might do the trick. A high hit chance per encounter is not necessary anymore. A semi capable missile with WH 4 should be cost effective at keeping small crafts away or force them to bring anti missile weapons of their own.

It will be fun to engage these new ships. A lot of crewman will buy realestate when you neglect recon.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #361 on: July 22, 2023, 04:24:28 PM »
Depending on how much of this filters to the NPRs, we are fast approaching the point where anti-fighter doctrine will be almost as important as anti-missile doctrine.  ;D

NPRs wouldn't design the above yet, but it will be more straightforward to add new NPR designs after the changes to NPR generation in v2.2, so I will get around to it at some point.
 
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Offline nakorkren

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #362 on: July 23, 2023, 04:15:50 PM »
Box launchers are still an issue for large ships due to the chance of a missile exploding on-board, but missile-armed fighters are still fine and probably gain a little vs beam-armed - which I think is correct as I think energy fighters were a better option before.

Really? most players i have interacted with and my own experience says otherwise that beam fighters are just overall worse than missile fighters, this is usually because of the large size of beam weapons requiring significantly cut down capability, either in speed, weapon shots or elsewhere not to mention the size of the BFC which has to still be big even with single weapon fire control due to the need for high range to achieve high accuracy, missile tubes are cheap small and allow fighters to pack significantly more firepower in a smaller package

It's been debated a lot. I think many players dismiss energy fighters because they take losses, where missile fighters generally don't.

However, this is a recent campaign based on energy-armed fighters as the main striking force. They have a huge force-multiplier once you generate a large enough wave of fighters, plus they are very good at point defence - which missile fighters can't do at all. Also, the cost of their losses compares favourably with the cost of expenditure of ordnance by missile fighters.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12909.0

EDIT: Also, energy-armed fighters also got a boost in v2.2 with the new plasma carronade rules.

If I did the math right, a 15cm plasma carrodnade will do 6 damage every 5 seconds (once you hit Cap tech 6) and take up 125 tons. While an expensive weapon to put on an expendable fighter, and no good at PD compared to a rail fighter, it will do 50% more damage as an anti-ship weapon than a 4-shot 10cm railgun which takes up 150 tons, ignoring shock effects. HIGHLY potent. Also likely to decimate enemy FACs and fighters.
 

Offline Viridia

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #363 on: August 14, 2023, 04:31:42 PM »
The Battle of Codalus was the United Council's first intra-species engagement, fought on the 3rd of November, 2092CE. Following the destruction of UCSS Voyager in late August of the same year, the Council had voted to begin communication efforts with the vessels that had blasted it out of the void, whilst ordering a show of force, comprising Carrier Strike Group-02, formed of a Burtonwood-class Carrier with a squadron of F-20 'Starspray' fighters, two Fortunate-class Destroyers, a Basilisk-class Cruiser, and a Hoplite-class Cruiser, in addition to the First Battle Squadron, composed of all four of the Lion-class Battlecruisers and two Arrow-class Escort Cruisers, to make their way into Codalus to show that Humanity was not to be trifled with.

The reports were farcast through the jump-gate of Codalus into the Sligo system, where a jumpgate construction ship broadcast them back through the network towards Earth. Despite a valiant showing, wave after wave of missiles, larger than the UCN's own ship-killers, burned their way through the engagement zone of the battle-squadron's lasers, claiming UCMS Lion and UCMS Tiger within fifty seconds. The UCMS Leopard was crippled, all three engines offline, and was scuttled shortly afterwards. All four battlecruisers had only managed to fire a single salvo before the destruction had been wrought, but UCMS Bolt and UCMS Arrow kept hurling salvoes of RM-19 interceptor missiles at the oncoming fury.

UCMS Panther, as the surviving capital ship, put up a valiant front, managing to fire a second time. Alas, the results were no more successful, and the hulk was joined by the Arrow swiftly. Crippled, the Bolt began to limp back towards the nearby Lagrange point to make an intra-system jump before it too joined the rest of the squadron in death. Over thirty million kilometre's to the rear, CSG-02 had already begun to make their own way back to the same Lagrange point, but the enemy (Named temporarily as the Codalans) swiftly came into range, destroying first the UCMS Manticore, and the UCMS Burtonwood. The Burtonwood's strikegroup had already launched and began to try to close the distance in an effort to intercept some of the incoming fire.

Their small size seemed to save them, albeit at the cost of the rest of the carrier group succumbing to the enemy's seemingly limitless missiles, but this was not to be. Over two hours and forty minutes later, the enemy's scanners seemed to pick up the minute craft, bringing them to an end in a manner eerily reminiscent of the charge of the famed Light Brigade. Within the span of eight hours, two-thousand, seven-hundred and seventy-four crew of the UCN had been killed or left to capture, and over one hundred thousand tons of warships rendered to scrap.

Plans are already in full effect by the UCN to step up the production of more escort vessels, and plans are being mooted for armoured monitors designed to take the brunt of the enemy fire and allow other vessels to close in for the kill. Whether or not this comes to fruition remains to be seen, with the rest of the UCN's warships docked in Earth orbit and no obstacles between the two sides in all the connecting star systems except for the unprotected colony worlds of Epsilon Eridani and Shaka.

 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #364 on: August 14, 2023, 08:12:23 PM »
Classic ouchie moment  :o
 

Offline Viridia

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #365 on: August 15, 2023, 01:04:58 AM »
I know I wanted to bring in the spirit of pre-carrier naval warfare into my game, but I didn't realise the first actual non-spoiler I encountered in a game (the Hydrans in my Space Race game don't count as the Soviet NPR is leading the war against them) would be so brutally efficient. The UCN will have to up its game! (Or hopefully peacefully negotiate with them)
 
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Offline Kurt

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #366 on: August 15, 2023, 04:38:33 PM »
Commonwealth of Earth Nations

***Warning: Combat against a Spoiler Race is detail below.  Do not read if you don’t want info about one of the spoilers!




September 24, 2091:
While surveying the Alexandria system, a geo-survey ship is suddenly attacked and destroyed while over the third planet.  This planet has an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere at 26% of Earth’s standard pressure, and an average surface temperature of -46.4 degrees.  The survey ship’s captain, Commander Taubler, reported that his ship was taking ground fire from multiple ground emplacements, and then the transmission was cut off.  Captain Leigers, the Survey Group Commander aboard the Jump Ship Adams County stationed at the jump point, immediately recalled the remaining three survey ships.  When the three remaining survey ships return, Captain Leigers plans to return to the Solar System to report this disaster.  It will take 29 days to return to the solar System. 

October 22, 2091: The survey group returns to the Solar System and broadcasts a warning and the report of the destruction of their survey ship. 

The report electrifies the Admiralty and shocks the citizens of Earth, and their representatives in the Parliament.  Rear Admiral Engels, commander of the Home Fleet (and thus the entire Navy), immediately requests permission to take the fleet out to investigate the Alexandria system.  The Parliament immediately denies this request, but under pressure from the mining corporations and the colonial representatives of New Washington, ultimately agrees to allow Engels to dispatch a squadron of ships to the Alexandria system.  Working under the limitations placed on him by the Parliament, Admiral Engels dispatches a squadron of three ships, composed of the Mothership Vinsoth and two Wenhedinae class frigates to investigate.  The Vinsoth is allowed to embark five 1,000 ton interceptors for offensive striking power.  The squadron will take some time to prepare, and will depart as soon as possible.  It will be accompanied by the Jump Ship Adams County, which will provide jump capability. 

Rear Admiral Segundo, the mission commander, has been given clear and unequivocal orders to approach Alexandria III cautiously and attempt to open communications.  He has been forbidden to initiate hostilities, and his current rules of engagement only allow him to fire offensive weapons in direct defense of his ships, meaning he can only engage alien units if they are a clear threat to his command. 

January 6, 2092: The Vinsoth battlegroup jumps into the Alexandria system with its sensors and shields active, accompanied by the Adams County.  After spending a day probing the surrounding area, the task group sets out for Alexandria III.  Admiral Segundo plans to approach the planet and standoff at 1.5 million kilometers, far beyond the range of any known beam weapon. 

January 23, 2092: At a range of 15.2 million kilometers, the Vinsoth’s sensors pick up signs of ground units on Alexandria III.  The alien forces seem to be present in divisional strength, although Admiral Segundo’s intelligence officer cautions him that the sensor readings may be misleading or incomplete.   

One hour later the task group comes to a halt at 1.5 million kilometers from the third planet.  This proved to be too close when the ground batteries opened fire, overwhelming the Vinsoth and killing it and its five interceptors almost immediately.  Later analysis would show that thirty-four emplacements on the surface fired on the Vinsoth. 
The two escorting frigates wasted no time in retreating from the planet, all the while sending panicked messages to the jump cruiser sitting at the jump point.  They somehow managed to get out of range of the ground batteries before they fired again, and retreated to fifteen million kilometers before stopping to take stock of the situation. 

Unknown to them, the Jumpship Adams County jumps out immediately after receiving the panicked messages from the frigates.  The two frigates eventually set out for the system’s innermost planet, where they will await rescue. 

April 12, 2092: Task Force Balint arrives at the jump point to the Alexandria system and refuels from prepositioned tankers.  The transports carrying the ground force are still fifteen days out.  There is no enemy activity on either side of the jump point.  Once in Alexandria Captain Balint orders his ships to send an omni-directional pulse that will be recognizable by any surviving forces in the system.  One hundred and seventy minutes later a response is received from the two frigates from the first expedition.  They survived!   Captain Balint orders them to the jump point to join his fleet. 

April 28, 2092: The transports arrive, and the group jumps into the Alexandria system and sets out for the assembly point fifteen million kilometers from planet III. 

May 14, 2092: The fleet is assembled off of Planet III, and the Mothership Chevin launches its four interceptors, which immediately move to the launch point, two point six million kilometers from the planet.  The lead interceptor opens fire immediately after reaching the firing point, targeting the alien STO’s.  The twelve missiles apparently obliterate the STO’s.  Not wishing to risk his transports if there are hidden STO’s, Captain Balint orders four frigates to join the interceptors, and for the whole group to close to 1.5 million kilometers from the planet. 

Four minutes and thirty seconds later the interceptors and frigates were on station, one point five million kilometers from the planet.  Every crew person was tensely watching their screens and controls, ready for an attack that never came.  After several minutes passed without a response from the planet, Captain Balint ordered the group to proceed closer to the planet.  When there was still no response from the planet, Captain Balint ordered the ships to proceed to orbit over the planet. 

Two minutes later, as the ships reached 74,000 kilometers from the planet, previously undetected STO’s opened fire, targeting the interceptor squadron, destroying three of the small ships and seriously wounding the fourth.  The escorting frigates immediately opened fire with their AMM launchers, targeting the newly revealed STO’s.  There was some delay, but two of the frigates got their missiles off within five seconds.  In the meantime, the squadron turned back towards its last waypoint.  The first salvo off twenty AMM’s streaked in and hit the planet, but the results were disappointing. 

By now all ships were launching against the STO’s, but the results continued to be disappointing as the small missiles were having problems penetrating the STO’s armor.  Before the frigates could escape, the STO’s fired again, wiping out the damaged interceptor and getting several hits on a frigate’s shields.  The enemy seems to have two kinds of STO’s left, one heavy beam emplacement with a range of approximately 75,000 kilometers, and a second, lighter beam weapon with a range of approximately 350,000 kilometers. 

With the frigates beyond the range of the remaining STO’s Captain Balint orders them to cease fire.  Between them, the frigates launched over two hundred AMM’s, but estimates are that they killed only three enemy STO’s. 

With the interceptors gone, Captain Balint decides that the task force can no longer complete its mission.  The alien STO’s have not been suppressed, and therefore the troops cannot be landed.  Therefore, Captain Balint orders the task force to return to Earth. 



Campaign Note: This was my first encounter with defending STO's.  Quite the education for me.  I will post more encounters, as you will see, this was not my last encounter with this particular problem. 
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #367 on: August 15, 2023, 08:14:07 PM »
I'm a little confused how an STO could have 1.5m km range. The maximum BFC range in the game is something like 1.4m km, and that's at the absolute limit of MaxTech which spoiler races... shouldn't be at?  ???

I know STOs get a BFC range bonus for being planet-bound but that still requires the second-highest BFC tech level in the game which I've never seen a spoiler race even come close to.
 
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Offline Viridia

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #368 on: August 16, 2023, 02:00:57 AM »
Campaign Note: This was my first encounter with defending STO's.  Quite the education for me.  I will post more encounters, as you will see, this was not my last encounter with this particular problem.

I have always found fighting STO's in general a painful and relatively prolonged experience, especially when you think you've already wiped them out. Great read, but may I suggest building some energy-armed ships? I've found that these tend to do better at suppressing STO's and save on having to restock missiles.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #369 on: August 16, 2023, 03:20:31 AM »
Campaign Note: This was my first encounter with defending STO's.  Quite the education for me.  I will post more encounters, as you will see, this was not my last encounter with this particular problem.

I have always found fighting STO's in general a painful and relatively prolonged experience, especially when you think you've already wiped them out. Great read, but may I suggest building some energy-armed ships? I've found that these tend to do better at suppressing STO's and save on having to restock missiles.

You'll also not irradiate the planet and render it unuseable. Dust settles much quicker.
 

Offline Kurt

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #370 on: August 16, 2023, 09:53:57 AM »
I'm a little confused how an STO could have 1.5m km range. The maximum BFC range in the game is something like 1.4m km, and that's at the absolute limit of MaxTech which spoiler races... shouldn't be at?  ???

I know STOs get a BFC range bonus for being planet-bound but that still requires the second-highest BFC tech level in the game which I've never seen a spoiler race even come close to.

You are probably right.  I forgot when I posted this, but this is when I discovered that the "Follow at X" command didn't work the way I thought it did.  I set the task force to follow the planet at 1.5 million kilometers, and it blew right past that because I think it either doesn't work on system bodies, or works differently.  Anyway, my task force blew right past the supposed stop point and got picked apart. Hard to explain in a story though. 
 
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Offline Kurt

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #371 on: August 16, 2023, 09:56:07 AM »
Campaign Note: This was my first encounter with defending STO's.  Quite the education for me.  I will post more encounters, as you will see, this was not my last encounter with this particular problem.

I have always found fighting STO's in general a painful and relatively prolonged experience, especially when you think you've already wiped them out. Great read, but may I suggest building some energy-armed ships? I've found that these tend to do better at suppressing STO's and save on having to restock missiles.

You'll also not irradiate the planet and render it unuseable. Dust settles much quicker.

Campaign Note: This was my first encounter with defending STO's.  Quite the education for me.  I will post more encounters, as you will see, this was not my last encounter with this particular problem.

I have always found fighting STO's in general a painful and relatively prolonged experience, especially when you think you've already wiped them out. Great read, but may I suggest building some energy-armed ships? I've found that these tend to do better at suppressing STO's and save on having to restock missiles.

Exactly my plan.  However, closing through the engagement range of the STO's hurts.  I was surprised how ineffective missiles were.  They did the job, but not well. 
 

Offline Kurt

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #372 on: August 18, 2023, 11:06:20 AM »
The next set of battles from my learning campaign.



******Warning!  All action is taking place against spoilers!  If you don't want to know anything about them, stop here!****


As we join the campaign, the Earth Commonwealth has sent a fleet to engage the STO's on Abyss, and a ground force composed of two division and elements of a third to engage the ground forces once the STO's are neutralized.  Orbital sensor readings show the aliens to be present in divisional strength (50,000 tons), and Earth has sent approximated 120,000 tons of ground units to engage them. 

July 19, 2095: The Assault Fleet was poised two million kilometers from The Abyss.  So far there had been no ground fire.  The Fleet was divided into three groups.  The Battlecruiser Assault Group consisted of three 20,000 ton Palanhi class battlecruisers.  The escort group consisted of two FFE’s, and the carrier group consisted of two motherships, six interceptors, and twenty-two fighters.  After raising shields and activating their sensors, the battlecruiser group moved towards the planet. 

The battlecruisers came under fire at 538,000 kilometers range, consistent with the last attack.  They continued forward, attempting to reach 150,000 kilometers range, as that would put them within their own range of the ground batteries. 

One minute later the ground batteries attack again, but the two targeted BC’s shield are holding at 93 and 99 percent.  A minute later and the battlecruisers have reached their range.  Before they can fire they are hit by another salvo, this time by more ground based batteries, but again their shields shrug the incoming fire off.   

The Eather BC’s open fire, but the STO’s are hard to hit and they do little or no damage.  To improve their odds, Captain Seelig orders the battlecruisers to close on the planet.  Finally, twenty-five seconds later, one of the battlecruisers destroys an STO with a lucky hit from one of its 8 inch lasers.  Over the next ten seconds the battlecruisers destroyed several more STO’s, but then the ground batteries launched an incredible onslaught of fire, including several salvoes from what had to be heavy plasma weapons that cut right through Captain Seelig’s shields and destroyed the command battlecruiser.  The second battlecruiser was reduced to fifty percent shields, and the third lost her shields and took a hit to her armor.  The two remaining battlecruisers turned away from the planet and began retreating, and Captain Balint ordered a missile strike from the interceptors. 

The battlecruisers quickly retreated out of range while the interceptors prepared to fire.  By the time the battlecruisers were out of range sixty Standard III ASM’s were on their way towards the planet.  Just as the leading missile salvo passed the retreating battlecruisers they were hit by one last salvo of long range fire from the ground batteries, but they hit the BC that still had shields, doing no real damage. 

The leading missile strike lost eight missiles to the ground batteries, but the remaining four destroyed three STO’s.  The following waves of missiles did additional damage.  There were still active STO’s on the planet, so Balint ordered a second strike by half of the fighters.  This strike does the trick and all identified STO’s have been destroyed.  Captain Balint orders the BC’s, which have recharged their shields, to return to the planet.  The BC’s reach orbit without being attacked.  Captain Balint orders the motherships to recover their squadrons to rearm and refuel them, and then settles in to wait for the transports with the ground troops.  The transports arrive on the 7th of August, and begin dropping their troops from orbit.  Within an hour two full armored divisions and elements of a third are on the ground. 

The assault and armored brigades went on the attack as soon as they were on the ground, and the two remaining BC’s and the two motherships in orbit began supporting them with orbital fire support.  The assault was a complete disaster.  The alien’s armor was too heavy to be penetrated by all but the heaviest human weapons.  Only the Rapier Heavy tank had any success in penetrating the alien armor, but the aliens were not having the same problem with human armor.  The alien weapons were taking horrible tolls of the human troops, killing hundreds at a time. 

After sixteen hours it was clear that the invasion was a failure, with the humans having suffered over thirty percent casualties and the aliens having lost two tanks, three APC’s, seven armored troopers, and two supply vehicles.  The result is unavoidable, and in a matter of days the human divisions are wiped out.  Captain Balint orders a missile strike from the two remaining battlecruisers, before the fleet departs for Earth. 

Note: I noticed during the battle that my artillery and orbital ships were not contributing to the battle.  I have since discovered the problem, and remedied it.  Basically, I did not know how to assign higher level units to support lower level units, and missed that part in the reading I had done.  My HQ units had quite a bit of arty capability, but none of it was used in this battle.  Wouldn’t have made a difference, though, I lost badly. 

August 26, 2095: As the Assault Fleet is passing through the Washington system en route to the Solar System, the colony on Washington I sends a contact warning.  The colony’s sensors have detected a single alien ship just inside the orbit of Washington II, moving at 4,067 kps.  The fleet is diverted to support the colony but is in the outer system and too far away to affect whatever is going to happen.  It soon becomes clear that the alien ship is moving towards the colony.  The colony is defended by two older STO laser batteries containing a total of fifty-eight emplacements, and five interceptors mounting older missiles.  The batteries are placed on alert and ordered to fire only in defense of the colony, and the interceptor group is ordered to hold their fire.  The Assault Fleet is still over a month away at this point. 

The contact approaches to eight million kilometers from the colony and then turns away, much to the relief of the colonists.  Unfortunately, after moving away from the colony for a bit, it turns back.  When it reaches 500,000 kilometers it becomes clear that the ship is very small, massing around 707 tons, again much to the relief of the colonists.

At 0937 hours on August 26th, the alien ship moves to point blank range and opens fire on one of the interceptors, completely destroying it.  The STO’s are ordered to open fire, and the interceptors are ordered to open their range to the alien.  The STO’s begin engaging the alien ship, scoring some hits, but the alien ship fires again, taking out another interceptor.  The commander of the remaining interceptors orders his remaining ships to open fire.  There is some delay as the interceptors ready their weapons, during which the aliens continue to pound one of the interceptors, but now that they are beyond point-blank range the alien’s weapons are doing reduced damage and so far, while the interceptor has sustained serious damage, it is still moving.  Finally, one of the interceptors manages to launch its missiles, which race towards the alien ship.  Eleven of the twelve missiles hit the target, completely destroying it.  It is clear at this point that the alien ship mounts some sort of jamming or cloaking tech that obscures its actual size. 

Captain Balint orders one of his frigates to proceed directly to Earth with a warning, while the rest of his fleet proceeds to New Washington. 

Note: Obviously, this ground force was way too small to effectively engage the aliens.  Worse, they were lower tech as well, making the result a foregone conclusion.  I learned a lot from the battle, though, as this was really my first ground-force engagement in Aurora. 
 
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Offline Kiero

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #373 on: August 18, 2023, 12:44:36 PM »
The next set of battles from my learning campaign....

I love it!
I think this deserves its own thread...
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Reply #374 on: August 18, 2023, 01:35:36 PM »
More fun stuff, Kurt! It's always fun to read about the times when things don't go so well, and of course how such setbacks can be dealt with.  ;D

A couple notes on mechanics in case they are helpful:
  • It's not clear from the reporting, but the sensor signature you detect from orbit may be several times smaller than the actual force due to fortification. If the detected signature was 50,000 tons I would guess you're actually fighting more like 150,000 tons which is a much harder battle to win.
  • Artillery could actually help a lot as they do have a bit more penetration than PW/CAP weapons and could at least have an easier time penetrating the infantry units. Probably still a lost battle but you might have killed more of them in the process.
  • As far as I know, there is no effect on ship-to-ground fire accuracy from distance, but there is an effect for damage the same as in ship-to-ship combat. So the only reason to close the range is if you need to do more damage to guarantee that a hit will kill the STO. Not sure what weapons you were using so I can't say if it mattered - if you're using particle beams, it definitely doesn't matter so you can hold the range open.