Mineral Generation

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

I noticed a lively debate on Discord about mineral generation. Generation of all minerals is equal in terms of chance to exist and size of deposit, except for Duranium which has double chance (max 100%) and double size.

[Kiero]

I would love to see a concept of random "ores" in Aurora.
So every game we can get different content of minerals in each randomly generated ore.

Ores could be gas, liquid, and solids. That way every extraction method might have its own tech tree.
One race could mine asteroids or comets for its fuel, another would need gas giants.

Another idea is to have a unique ore that can have tremendous amounts of one or two minerals, but it is present in only one system.

It would be really cool if we could get mines to "focus" on mining specific mineral (like a % in Race Name Theme).

[serger]

It's very hard to code AI for this type of dynamic resourses.

[nuclearslurpee]

I would love to see a concept of random "ores" in Aurora.
So every game we can get different content of minerals in each randomly generated ore.

Ores could be gas, liquid, and solids. That way every extraction method might have its own tech tree.
One race could mine asteroids or comets for its fuel, another would need gas giants.

Another idea is to have a unique ore that can have tremendous amounts of one or two minerals, but it is present in only one system.

It would be really cool if we could get mines to "focus" on mining specific mineral (like a % in Race Name Theme).

This sounds good from an "immersion" perspective, but from a gameplay perspective all I can think of is the nightmare of balancing the building and shipping of three (or six, with automine variants) kinds of mines. This seems too micromanagement-intensive for the abstract nature of Aurora's mining economy and doesn't add anything to the gameplay.

Given the value of TNEs, in practice every extraction method would be pursued by every race as no good source of a key mineral can be passed up...location, location, location is the name of the game.

[Zincat]

To be honest, I still want some in-game mineral generation, for moderate amounts.
This is more for roleplay purposes rather than as a meaningful substitution to expanding ever outward.

Iirc TN minerals are supposed to somehow "condense" over long periods of time, and mostly in large planets.

You could have some very large planets (or who knows, black holes? and gas giants) have a small production of TN minerals every year to simulate that.

Once again, I'd like this as a flavor, roleplay thing. I'm not suggesting such a high generation of minerals that would reduce the need of expanding.
And it would create a few interesting situations, like:
This system is full of dirtballs. But a couple of them actually make some minerals every year, and they're close to the home system, so they're actually worth at least considering taking.

[nuclearslurpee]

To be honest, I still want some in-game mineral generation, for moderate amounts.
This is more for roleplay purposes rather than as a meaningful substitution to expanding ever outward.

Iirc TN minerals are supposed to somehow "condense" over long periods of time, and mostly in large planets.

You could have some very large planets (or who knows, black holes? and gas giants) have a small production of TN minerals every year to simulate that.

Once again, I'd like this as a flavor, roleplay thing. I'm not suggesting such a high generation of minerals that would reduce the need of expanding.
And it would create a few interesting situations, like:
This system is full of dirtballs. But a couple of them actually make some minerals every year, and they're close to the home system, so they're actually worth at least considering taking.

To be honest I think the current lack of this is more realistic (well, as realistic as TN wizardry ever is).

Consider that the solar system is billions of years old, and typically if we survey for instance a gas giant we might find hundreds of millions of tons of sorium (not sure if billions of tons is possible?). So that suggests that in a year, we might see only 0.1 tons "condense" which is basically nothing. Obviously we can wave our hands around with science words about planetary formation and nonlinear rates of TNE condensation, but really at the root of it we're comparing truly geological time scales to a typical Aurora campaign which ranges from 10 to 1,000 years, not even a drop in the bucket in geological terms.

[Kiero]

This sounds good from an "immersion" perspective, but from a gameplay perspective all I can think of is the nightmare of balancing the building and shipping of three (or six, with automine variants) kinds of mines. This seems too micromanagement-intensive for the abstract nature of Aurora's mining economy and doesn't add anything to the gameplay...

Actually, it might add a lot to the gameplay.
Exp. You can focus on tech for extracting very rare ore, but it will turn out with huge quantities of minerals (from limited sources) or a tech for a common ore but with fewer minerals.

Also we already have two ways of extracting sorium...

Anyway, even without different types of ore (solid, liquid, gas), it is still a great way to make a story deeper.

[Andrew]

I think the idea of different types of key minerals in some strange combination is a truly terrible idea. WOuld have to have an option to turn it off or just not add it

[Kiero]

I think the idea of different types of key minerals in some strange combination is a truly terrible idea. WOuld have to have an option to turn it off or just not add it

Minerals would stay the same.

[AlStar]

You could have some very large planets (or who knows, black holes? and gas giants) have a small production of TN minerals every year to simulate that.

I mean, don't the planets that generate with tens or hundreds of millions of minerals at .1 accessibility basically fit the bill for this already? You'll never empty one of those out in any kind of reasonable timeframe.

[Blogaugis]

Uh... are we discussing 1-time TN elements random generation on various planetary bodies,
or regeneration of TN resources on larger bodies?

If it is randomizing initial resources... Eh, Okay, I guess it can be a setting. How much random you want it to be.
If it is regenerating... Well, yes as well - a slider for how much resource should regenerate over time would also be a good thing. Whether to leave as before, or regenerate a certain % at a time.

[ArcWolf]

hmm, what do you guys think about something like "Deep core mining"? A new tech that unlocks after reaching a mining rate of 20 or so and that costs 30-60k RP that would then allow a 2nd geo-survey with a higher chance of detecting elements on planets that already have them?

[xenoscepter]

hmm, what do you guys think about something like "Deep core mining"? A new tech that unlocks after reaching a mining rate of 20 or so and that costs 30-60k RP that would then allow a 2nd geo-survey with a higher chance of detecting elements on planets that already have them?

 --- Seems a bit lore unfriendly. While I normally wouldn't bring up the "lore" as it's considered to be largely up to the players; this seems like an area where it might present a worthwhile contribution. The idea of TN minerals is that they exist in the Aether, which is basically another dimension. The reason you only really find them on bodies is because gravity wells cause them to condense. This condensation is what makes them mineable. "Deep Core" would imply that your digging them out, and while that could be the fluff of it for some players, others might want to keep with the whole gravity well theme. Having a tech called "Deep Mining" which let's you reach deeper either into the planet, or farther into the Aether, I think that would be a good middle ground.

 --- This Deep Mining could allow a 2nd Geo Survey, but it'd probably be better to have it unlock a special geo-survey that's used to detect renewable minerals. The Deep Mining let's you reach further into the Aether, where the minerals are condensing, and siphon off small, but usable quantities of it indefinitely. Not enough to make a huge difference, but enough to stretch out the supplies you get from normal mining or allow you to bank them for a while to build something a bit bigger. This could also be fluffed as going deeper into the body to get at the TN minerals where they "spawn" if you will, or something to that end. Basically what Deep Mining does that regular Mining doesn't is let you make use of the "source" of TN Minerals, but only with a 2nd Geo-Survey... possibly conducted with Grav Sensors instead, or a Ground Based team.

[Blogaugis]

hmm, what do you guys think about something like "Deep core mining"? A new tech that unlocks after reaching a mining rate of 20 or so and that costs 30-60k RP that would then allow a 2nd geo-survey with a higher chance of detecting elements on planets that already have them?

 --- Seems a bit lore unfriendly. While I normally wouldn't bring up the "lore" as it's considered to be largely up to the players; this seems like an area where it might present a worthwhile contribution. The idea of TN minerals is that they exist in the Aether, which is basically another dimension. The reason you only really find them on bodies is because gravity wells cause them to condense. This condensation is what makes them mineable. "Deep Core" would imply that your digging them out, and while that could be the fluff of it for some players, others might want to keep with the whole gravity well theme. Having a tech called "Deep Mining" which let's you reach deeper either into the planet, or farther into the Aether, I think that would be a good middle ground.

 --- This Deep Mining could allow a 2nd Geo Survey, but it'd probably be better to have it unlock a special geo-survey that's used to detect renewable minerals. The Deep Mining let's you reach further into the Aether, where the minerals are condensing, and siphon off small, but usable quantities of it indefinitely. Not enough to make a huge difference, but enough to stretch out the supplies you get from normal mining or allow you to bank them for a while to build something a bit bigger. This could also be fluffed as going deeper into the body to get at the TN minerals where they "spawn" if you will, or something to that end. Basically what Deep Mining does that regular Mining doesn't is let you make use of the "source" of TN Minerals, but only with a 2nd Geo-Survey... possibly conducted with Grav Sensors instead, or a Ground Based team.

While we are on the idea of renewable resources, I think we need to limit this renewability a little bit:
I propose Trans-Newtonian Element storage facilities. You can not store more of these resources than the amount of storage facilities you have on that world/body.
This can create an interesting logistics dynamic, where you spread the resources around your empire, which kind of increases the headache if you don't focus all minerals into 1 place.
And about the storage facilities themselves... I guess they should cost some wealth to maintain/population to function? It basically makes them as important as infrastructure in the latter case. With that, we can also give new uses to cargo ships - 'supply colony' order - allowing a cargo ship to function as a storage facility, for construction, extraction etc.

[TMaekler]

TN minerals condense in gravity wells - how about a late tech techline to construct Dyson Spheres? They could become TN collectors - and with a construction cost of 35.000.000 Duranium , 55.000.000 Neutronium and 19.000.000 Corbomite - they come as cheap as it gets and produce infinite renewable TN minerals