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C# Bureau of Design / Re: Design Challenges
« Last post by sam2022 on Yesterday at 11:01:02 AM »
Challenge :
You will give a the designation for a first generation vessel that will serve the backbone of the Thinkea Colective interests.  The TCN or Thinkea Colective Navy wants a first generation exploration vessel that can survey an exploration for our homesystem .  It would avise a 1483 ton vessel under the model designation of QL-MK1-GEN1 and it would serve as a staging ground for the TCEC or Thinkea Collective Exploration Command for exploration.  The technology will use are EARLY TRANSNEWTONIAN TECH .  Our mission for the inteted range is 4,50 AU or 673 million of km as Maximum or minimum of 1,3 AU or 194,48 million of km .  This is the project SS Initiave or  Stellar Survey Initiative .  The name will be Vanguard as the name.  This nomenclaure QL-MK1-GEN1 is the designation of the model . 

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C# Bureau of Design / Re: New Hull Designations
« Last post by Aloriel on June 04, 2023, 09:04:05 PM »
Here is a weird one, I like to use the German spelling of corvette because a hull code of KK looks nice next to DDs and FFs.
Korvette  KK
Guided Missile Korvette  KKG
K was actually used for corvettes by English speaking countries in WW2 and earlier. In games like Rule the Waves, you'll see KE ships all over the place. I suspect it was to distinct it from C's which were cruisers and carriers. Weirdly, CV grew out of the early carriers being refits of cruisers. It just stuck.
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General Discussion / Re: What's Going On In Your Empire: C# Edition
« Last post by Kurt on June 04, 2023, 12:51:16 PM »
Having wrapped up my Starfire campaign, I'm getting back into Aurora in preparation for starting an Aurora campaign, but it is slow going.  But I'm getting there.  I thought I'd post a short message on my progress getting back into Aurora. 

I started with a conventional start, just so I get the hang of researching stuff, particularly the ground unit stuff, from the start.  There have been a lot of changes since the last time I played Aurora, so there were a lot of false starts, dead-ends, and more than a little frustration, but I've mostly got it worked out, I think.  At least the basics.  I successfully converted my civilization to TN, explored the solar system and set up extra-planetary mines, then researched and developed jump tech, and built interstellar survey ships.  I explored several jumps out from Sol and set up interstellar outposts and one colony on a promising site two jumps from Earth. 

During all of this, I built up a smallish navy with six 6,000 ton frigates, two 15,000 ton light cruisers, and two 20,000 ton jump cruisers, all armed with various lasers.  Fleet speed was 2,000 kps as this is an early fleet.  Also, I built some light infantry troops and successfully integrated them into higher level organizations, and then focused on building anti-ship STO units with my best beam weapon, as I thought the whole STO concept is very cool. 

Then an NPR ship appeared in the Solar System, shocking me.  I panicked and sent my fleet out to intercept, but it didn't head for Earth, it just flitted around from system-body to system-body, and I quickly realized two things.  First, it wasn't an immediate threat, and second, it was more than twice as fast as my fleet at 4,400 KPS.  I sent the fleet home and settled for watching it move around. 

At this point I decided I had learned about as much as I was going to from this run-through, but I wanted to get some experience in combat.  So, I designed and built some 1,000 ton missile boats for when the aliens returned.  I had built four by the time they came back, so I sent them out to attack the perfidious aliens.  After much experimentation with the fire control settings, I managed to launch my missiles at the dastardly aliens, and although it took all thirty-two of the attack group's missiles, I did manage to destroy it.  I congratulated myself on my prowess and sent my ships back to reload. 

A few days later another enemy ship showed up, and I sent my interceptors out again.  This time they were destroyed short of the target by a second group of small (>1000 ton) enemy ships that appeared out of nowhere.  This was familiar to me from the old days.  My sensors aren't very good at this early stage, and the enemy ships went from being undetected to within firing range in one too-large time advance.   The short story is - my valiant interceptors were destroyed by the back-stabbing alien aggressors.  So, I sent out my main fleet to teach a lesson to the aliens. 

This is the result:


As you can see, my fleet did not survive.  The alien ships then went on to attack Earth, destroying my shipyards and the civilian ships in orbit.  At that point I remembered that I had STO ground forces, so I figured out how to use them and they opened fire.  They proved to be very effective and destroyed the aliens in short order.  I had a lot of them because I mostly kept my ground construction centers building STO units. 

The aliens obligingly sent a second fleet to their deaths over the Earth, and then a third.  Which I thought was foolish and perhaps a problem with the program.  But they did try to take out my STO's and they did do some damage.  It was only after the death of the third fleet that I realized the sneaky and dastardly aliens had managed to land a ground force on Earth!  So, I figured this was my chance to get some experience with ground combat, so I "Instant Builded" a ground force based on light ground vehicles with crew-served anti-personnel weapons and we were off to the war. 

The fighting taught me a bit about the ground combat system, and more about the aftermath of replacements and series and things like that.  At this point I'm going to move on to a new Aurora campaign with two player races in the same system, with a set up designed to have them battle over control of a third location, perhaps a rich mining site.  This campaign will be focused on ground combat to the exclusion of all else, as this is where I feel I'm the weakest. 
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C# Bureau of Design / Re: Sheild Warship
« Last post by Nori on June 04, 2023, 12:02:16 PM »
snip
Ah good point. I missed the 3 by the shields. Totally agree, in this size ship you are far better off doing one large shield. I could see doing 2 shields for redundancy on a larger ship however.
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C# Bug Reports / Re: v2.1.1 Bugs Thread
« Last post by bankshot on June 04, 2023, 09:24:41 AM »
After removing and re-adding the missile loadouts for both the support ship and destroyer and a save and load it started working.  So there is probably some interaction between what order you specify the ordinance in the class design and whether or not it will see the missiles to load them.
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C# Bureau of Design / Re: Sheild Warship
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on June 04, 2023, 01:05:48 AM »
I have never used them before and am honestly not really sure how exactly they work other then they restore after taking damage, charge to full power after being activated slowly and are less space efficient then their equal weight in armor.

A quick primer:
  • Shield strength is equal to the strength tech times the size of the shield times the square root of the size divided by 10, where the size is given in HS. This means that shield strength scales as HS^(3/2) and a larger shield is nearly always better than two smaller shields of the same total size.
  • Shield regeneration is the regen tech times the size of the shield (in HS), and gives the total shield strength that will regenerate in 300 seconds. This means that shield regeneration is directly proportional to size, and two shields of the same total size will regenerate the same total power as one shield of that size. There is a misconception by some people that smaller shields regenerate faster; this is objectively untrue - although larger shields take longer to reach full strength (since they are stronger per HS), the regeneration rate is the same.
  • Shields are highly effective against high-penetration weapons like spinal lasers and particle lances, since they absorb the full damage and nothing will get through to the internals if there is still shield strength remaining. Conversely, they are somewhat less effective (but still good) against low-penetration weapons like railguns and missiles. Meson cannons ignore shields entirely.
  • Shields at a sufficiently high tech level are almost strictly superior to armor (unless facing mesons). This is because while shields have less raw strength than armor per HS, shields must be fully eroded before internal damage could be dealt, while armor only needs to be partially eroded before a ship starts taking heavy internal damage. The rule of thumb here is that a ship with about 50% armor damage is effectively exposed to internal damage - so once shields reach 50% of the strength per HS that armor has, they become equally or more effective. This happens starting at Epislon tech with the maximum size (25+). Endgame shields are about 75% as strong as armor per HS, which makes them effectively superior in nearly all cases.

The most important takeaway here if you are a total noob is that you should always use the biggest shield generator available at your tech level. As a general rule, your total shield strength should be at least the same as one armor layer's width, and if you cannot accomplish this in a tonnage-efficient manner it is probably too early in the tech tree for shields to be truly effective. In practice, the break point is usually Gamma or Delta shields depending on the overall ship design and fleet doctrine.

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so my assumption about max fleet speed is based on ~40% max tonnage dedicated to engines and fuel but I feel like I am a little slow here (for reference my previous generation was using Internal Confinement Fusion was at 10km/s, moving to Solid Core Anti Matter I feel I should be faster but this is where the math seemed to point was a happy medium)

This is a reasonable assumption and you're probably fine, especially given the diverse threats you currently face. Your bog-standard NPRs at this point are probably still using fusion drives  as NPRs are not very good at teching up like a player is, so I wouldn't worry too much about standardizing against their fleet speeds.

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Feedback is appreciated as always. I am particularly interested in your thoughts on the shield to armor radio and the speed however if you feel I have royally gooned something up I am happy to address it.

Per above, I'd say your big issue is that you are using far too small generators. If you are at Xi tech level even with bas size-10 generators you should be getting 50 strength per 10 HS. I am seeing 18 strength per generator which means they are a measly size 5 HS and only 36 strength per 10 HS. You are leaving a lot on the table, and frankly at Xi tech level you should be able to make shields of size 40 HS which will have a hefty 400 strength per generator or 100 per 10 HS, how can you say no to this?

A proper shield generator(s) will take up a lot of space, there is no way around this, so you do have to be prepared to commit to shields, which probably means sacrifices in other areas such as weapons loadout. Small ships can struggle to make the best use of shields as the largest sizes (40 HS ==  2000 tons!) may not be practical, although on the flip side with 400 points of shields who needs armor anyways?  ;D
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C# Bureau of Design / Re: Sheild Warship
« Last post by Xanithas on June 03, 2023, 11:31:04 PM »
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15k is pretty fast, though you really gotta design based on your enemy. If they are going 20k then a beam ship is going to have a tough time closing, but if they go 10k you should be good. If they are 5k you could probably slow it down a bit.

I agree about the speed bit but I am in a bit of a weird spot, I am facing Star Swarm ships who still have a speed advantage on me even with this new ship (they make about 18000km/s) but the average NPR is about 8k so I was already faster then them a generation ago. My thought was this will give me a smaller delta V mismatch so if they are in range I can hold them there slightly longer.

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4 armor is not a lot. Even with 54 shields. I'd try for at least 6, but naturally it's up to you and the enemy you face.
Ironically the older model has 6 layers and I stripped them down because I thought the shield would offset. I can try for that but that seems like a lot to me. with that said does that mean my 6 layers on the previous generation was woefully inadequate (which scares me because they handled damage fairly well so clearly I was lucky in that case) or do I need a LOT of shields to make the equivalent of 1 layer of armor.

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Why did you match the tracking speed of your lasers to your FCS?
Because I am a big dummy and forgot I am using a older model FCS for my previous generation ships (fleet speed 10k) and didn't upgrade it. Saved me a refit there....

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I'd add a ECM personally. It takes time to close in a beam ship so any help is good.
I will probably swap out the ECCM for the ECM given how crammed this bad boy is (it had both before but I pulled the ECM out because I figured my accuracy and range being max was better then the range and accuracy penalty the enemy receives which sounds silly saying it aloud), but if the overwhelming feedback is I am going to fast I will for sure have room there.
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C# Bureau of Design / Re: Sheild Warship
« Last post by Nori on June 03, 2023, 10:51:16 PM »
15k is pretty fast, though you really gotta design based on your enemy. If they are going 20k then a beam ship is going to have a tough time closing, but if they go 10k you should be good. If they are 5k you could probably slow it down a bit.

4 armor is not a lot. Even with 54 shields. I'd try for at least 6, but naturally it's up to you and the enemy you face.
Why did you match the tracking speed of your lasers to your FCS?
I'd add a ECM personally. It takes time to close in a beam ship so any help is good.

That's all I got for now. :)
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C# Bureau of Design / Sheild Warship
« Last post by Xanithas on June 03, 2023, 09:29:25 PM »
Good evening all,

I am moving steady along in my game and have decided to try out shields on some of my warships and thought I should come here and see if I can get some feedback. I have never used them before and am honestly not really sure how exactly they work other then they restore after taking damage, charge to full power after being activated slowly and are less space efficient then their equal weight in armor. I decided to take the shell of a proven warship (my 10K destroyer) and throw some shields on it. Additionally this is honestly the farthest along I have ever gotten in aurora before (most of the time I run our of minerals before now or get dominated by a spoiler NPR) so I have never had engines at this tech level before so my assumption about max fleet speed is based on ~40% max tonnage dedicated to engines and fuel but I feel like I am a little slow here (for reference my previous generation was using Internal Confinement Fusion was at 10km/s, moving to Solid Core Anti Matter I feel I should be faster but this is where the math seemed to point was a happy medium)

Code: [Select]
Bellerophon class Destroyer      10,000 tons       299 Crew       3,592.3 BP       TCS 200    TH 3,000    EM 1,620
15000 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 54-216       HTK 98      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 50.67
Maint Life 3.29 Years     MSP 1,743    AFR 107%    IFR 1.5%    1YR 243    5YR 3,651    Max Repair 500.00 MSP
Magazine 5   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Babcock Interstellar Frigate Class Mk III SCAM HS 25 P1.25 EP1000.00 (3)    Power 3000.0    Fuel Use 33.15%    Signature 1000.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 763,000 Litres    Range 41.4 billion km (31 days at full power)
Tokamak Deflectors Small Ship Xi Band Military Grade Deflector Generator (3)     Recharge Time 216 seconds (0.2 per second)

Kratos Defence 25.0cm FXR Naval Grade Laser (1)    Range 480,000km     TS: 15,000 km/s     Power 16-8     RM 80,000 km    ROF 10       
Kratos Defence 15.0cm FXR Naval Grade Laser (4)    Range 480,000km     TS: 15,000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 80,000 km    ROF 5       
Quad Thales Nederland "Goal Keeper" GCIWS Turret (4x24)    Range 40,000km     TS: 32000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC Mk IV (1)     Max Range: 480,000 km   TS: 10,000 km/s     98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Thales Nederland "Goal Keeper" GCIWS BFC (1)     Max Range: 60,000 km   TS: 32,000 km/s     83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
General Electric SCAM P10 (1)     Total Power Output 10    Exp 5%
General Electric SCAM P25 (1)     Total Power Output 25.9    Exp 5%

Sparton Bouy Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
Sparton Bouy Deployment Computer (1)     Range 9.1m km    Resolution 1

Compact ECCM-2 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes
 

Feedback is appreciated as always. I am particularly interested in your thoughts on the shield to armor radio and the speed however if you feel I have royally gooned something up I am happy to address it.
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Aurora Videos (C#) / Re: aurora 4X C# Youtube Videos
« Last post by AJS1956 on June 03, 2023, 02:28:42 PM »
Good afternoon all,

We have nine new videos, from two creators, in just the past seven days!

Firstly, in version 2.0 (or later) news.

Kourgath223 has posted the next part of his playthrough (part 51). MyTurn2Game has posted the next eight parts of his playthrough (parts 82 to 89).

So, for version 2.0 (or later) we now have 312 videos with a total running time of 11 days, 7 hours and 20 minutes.

Next, for earlier/unknown versions.

All videos were for version 2+ this time.

So, overall, we now have a total of 1680 videos with a total running time of 55 days, 2 hours and 18 minutes.

As usual, I have added the latest copies of the spreadsheets to the first post.


Andy
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