v1.13.0 Bugs Thread

[Ancalagon]

These two red-box time estimates should be the same number, but for some reason they are not. Please note that the move order is a "Follow at 1,000 mil km" order. (The task force has not yet reached its 1,000 mil km standoff point)

It looks like the map ETA is correctly taking into account the stand-off distance I've ordered, but the Travel Time in the fleet window is incorrectly calculating based on distance to the center of the body targeted.

when I had these errors usually was because my Naval Screen was open and because while the Tactical map is refreshed real-time while the screens are not (you must close and reopen) that caused the issue. Have you tried that?

DISCLAIMER: My problem was during setting different speeds so it may not be related to yours.

Unfortunately, it's not an issue regarding the Naval Organization window not auto-refreshing. Also if you look at the difference between the Tactical Map distance remaining and the Naval Organization distance remaining, it's exactly 1 billion km which is the distance of the desired stand-off.

[Ancalagon]

With 5-minute subpulses and a 3-hour turn, how did these two fleets slip so far past each other? I would have thought there would have been 36 sub-pulse sensor interrupt checks during those 3 hours of travel. All my sensor sizes and resolutions are shown. Shouldn't the turn have been interrupted with a new hostile sensor detection about 1.5 hours through the 3-hour turn?

[skoormit]

With 5-minute subpulses and a 3-hour turn, how did these two fleets slip so far past each other? I would have thought there would have been 36 sub-pulse sensor interrupt checks during those 3 hours of travel. All my sensor sizes and resolutions are shown. Shouldn't the turn have been interrupted with a new hostile sensor detection about 1.5 hours through the 3-hour turn?

Could be cloaked?
A cloaked ship's signature shows its full size, not the effective size for sensor detection purposes.

[Ancalagon]

If I fire an overkill number of missiles targeted at a single target in a multi-ship fleet, and my missiles have active sensor seekerheads, shouldn't the "extra" missiles after my target dies, retarget to other nearby enemy ships? Because right now they all explode as if they hit something, but only the originally targeted ship is damaged/killed.

I fired 294 missiles at a single ship belonging to a precursor fleet of 3 enemy ships, all same speed and size. 167x missiles ended up having successful intercepts according to the log. However, only one ship was hit (32 times) and was destroyed. The remaining extra "overkill" missiles exploded, doing no damage to the other two ships:



I have a save if you would like to experiment. As you can see, this missile design does indeed have 0.25 active sensors (range of 4.4mil km against 5000-ton)



SJW: Working as intended. See my reply.

[Ancalagon]

With 5-minute subpulses and a 3-hour turn, how did these two fleets slip so far past each other? I would have thought there would have been 36 sub-pulse sensor interrupt checks during those 3 hours of travel. All my sensor sizes and resolutions are shown. Shouldn't the turn have been interrupted with a new hostile sensor detection about 1.5 hours through the 3-hour turn?

Could be cloaked?
A cloaked ship's signature shows its full size, not the effective size for sensor detection purposes.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Here is the result if I manually go forward in 5-minute turns. (Same map scale as the previous image for this bug). I detected them at the edge of my sensor distance. It seems for some reason, active sensor interrupts aren't happening during sub-pulses. Shouldn't this interrupt the turn generation? Or is this not part of sub-pulse resolution?

[nuclearslurpee]

With 5-minute subpulses and a 3-hour turn, how did these two fleets slip so far past each other? I would have thought there would have been 36 sub-pulse sensor interrupt checks during those 3 hours of travel. All my sensor sizes and resolutions are shown. Shouldn't the turn have been interrupted with a new hostile sensor detection about 1.5 hours through the 3-hour turn?

Not necessarily. The turn interrupt is tied to the firing of events, and the firing of hostile contact events is tied to updating of a hostile contact.

If a hostile ship leaves your sensor range at, say, 4000 km/s with its active sensor on, and then later reappears at 4000 km/s with its active sensor on, there is no change in the hostile contact and no event is fired. This is not a bug, but rather is a quirk of the contacts system interacting with the events system - which is frequently brought up in the suggestions thread.

If I fire an overkill number of missiles targeted at a single target in a multi-ship fleet, and my missiles have active sensor seekerheads, shouldn't the "extra" missiles after my target dies, retarget to other nearby enemy ships? Because right now they all explode as if they hit something, but only the originally targeted ship is damaged/killed.

I fired 294 missiles at a single ship belonging to a precursor fleet of 3 enemy ships, all same speed and size. 167x missiles ended up having successful intercepts according to the log. However, only one ship was hit (32 times) and was destroyed. The remaining extra "overkill" missiles exploded, doing no damage to the other two ships:

I recall that in the 1.12 period there was discussion that active sensors on missiles did not allow them to retarget, and ultimately a change was made in 1.13 to allow second-stage missiles to auto-target but no change that I recall was made for standard missiles with active sensors. Presently active sensors on missiles are designed to allow retargeting if a target was destroyed in the previous increment - with how salvo motion and missile impacts work missiles will not retarget after the target has been precisely killed. I'm not sure if this is the design intention or simply the way it is, but either way it isn't a bug and is another popular subject of discussion in the suggestions threads.

[Ancalagon]

With 5-minute subpulses and a 3-hour turn, how did these two fleets slip so far past each other? I would have thought there would have been 36 sub-pulse sensor interrupt checks during those 3 hours of travel. All my sensor sizes and resolutions are shown. Shouldn't the turn have been interrupted with a new hostile sensor detection about 1.5 hours through the 3-hour turn?

Not necessarily. The turn interrupt is tied to the firing of events, and the firing of hostile contact events is tied to updating of a hostile contact.

If a hostile ship leaves your sensor range at, say, 4000 km/s with its active sensor on, and then later reappears at 4000 km/s with its active sensor on, there is no change in the hostile contact and no event is fired. This is not a bug, but rather is a quirk of the contacts system interacting with the events system - which is frequently brought up in the suggestions thread.

So you're saying if I hadn't ever had a sensor contact with these Precursor ships before, then I would have gotten a proper sub-pulse interrupt?    But because I've seen them once before, decades earlier, now they don't ever interrupt sub-pulses when they appear again with the same stats?

If I fire an overkill number of missiles targeted at a single target in a multi-ship fleet, and my missiles have active sensor seekerheads, shouldn't the "extra" missiles after my target dies, retarget to other nearby enemy ships? Because right now they all explode as if they hit something, but only the originally targeted ship is damaged/killed.

I fired 294 missiles at a single ship belonging to a precursor fleet of 3 enemy ships, all same speed and size. 167x missiles ended up having successful intercepts according to the log. However, only one ship was hit (32 times) and was destroyed. The remaining extra "overkill" missiles exploded, doing no damage to the other two ships:

I recall that in the 1.12 period there was discussion that active sensors on missiles did not allow them to retarget, and ultimately a change was made in 1.13 to allow second-stage missiles to auto-target but no change that I recall was made for standard missiles with active sensors. Presently active sensors on missiles are designed to allow retargeting if a target was destroyed in the previous increment - with how salvo motion and missile impacts work missiles will not retarget after the target has been precisely killed. I'm not sure if this is the design intention or simply the way it is, but either way it isn't a bug and is another popular subject of discussion in the suggestions threads.

I didn't realize that's how it was supposed to work. Other people on the discord thought it was bugged, too.

[nuclearslurpee]

So you're saying if I hadn't ever had a sensor contact with these Precursor ships before, then I would have gotten a proper sub-pulse interrupt?    But because I've seen them once before, decades earlier, now they don't ever interrupt sub-pulses when they appear again with the same stats?

Yes. It's really weird, and not the behavior most players desire nor expect, but it is WAD although the volume of complaints suggests the D could use some adjustments (which, again, is a suggestions thread topic of some frequency).

I didn't realize that's how it was supposed to work. Other people on the discord thought it was bugged, too.

It's definitely not intuitive, but it seems to be intended as the last time we had this discussion we got the second-stage fix/change but no change to active sensor missile behavior for single stages. I believe the rationale is that (1) the missiles impact so quickly that they don't have time to register the destruction of the ship and change course, and (2) gameplay balance, to preserve the mechanic of carefully weighing the size of a missile volley instead of fire-and-forget. Folks have argued that the requirement to allocate MSP to sensors makes this a viable tradeoff, but that seems to either not be a view shared by Steve, or else it's just not important enough to get changed. I don't know which.

[Ancalagon]

When my missiles are targeted against Precursors, they aren't causing sub-pulse interrupts when they get within AMM range. I saved the game, set sub-pulse interrupts to 5sec, and clicked the "5 min" button to watch the turn move forward. There should have been 60 sub-pulses.

My missiles struck the Precursor fleet with only PD firing, and not their AMMs.

Then I reloaded the game and moved forward in 5-second increments manually instead of relying on the sub-pulse setting. Their AMMs started engaging my missiles almost a minute prior to the missiles arriving at the Precursor fleet.

Isn't there a sub-pulse interrupt that should be be happening when the Precursors detect my missiles inbound? I'm worried that this isn't working right, and that there might not be an interrupt for when they shoot missiles at me, either. Perhaps there's something about turn resolution that I'm missing.

[nuclearslurpee]

When my missiles are targeted against Precursors, they aren't causing sub-pulse interrupts when they get within AMM range. I saved the game, set sub-pulse interrupts to 5sec, and clicked the "5 min" button to watch the turn move forward. There should have been 60 sub-pulses.

My missiles struck the Precursor fleet with only PD firing, and not their AMMs.

Then I reloaded the game and moved forward in 5-second increments manually instead of relying on the sub-pulse setting. Their AMMs started engaging my missiles almost a minute prior to the missiles arriving at the Precursor fleet.

Isn't there a sub-pulse interrupt that should be be happening when the Precursors detect my missiles inbound? I'm worried that this isn't working right, and that there might not be an interrupt for when they shoot missiles at me, either. Perhaps there's something about turn resolution that I'm missing.

Hard to say. Steve has in the past said that the event interrupts are necessary for the AI to handle certain things, and I suspect missile launches are one of those things. This might then be a bug which has gone unreported since most players default to short turns in combat.

[Ancalagon]

"Create Colony" from the Naval Organization window used to work previously, but now that I have two species to choose from, it no longer creates a colony on the chosen body. I had to go to System Body View to create a colony (which defaulted to Human, and didn't ask me to choose a species).



SJW: Fixed for v1.14

[Droll]

"Create Colony" from the Naval Organization window used to work previously, but now that I have two species to choose from, it no longer creates a colony on the chosen body. I had to go to System Body View to create a colony (which defaulted to Human, and didn't ask me to choose a species).

Can confirm that this happens to me as well. The workaround is to create colonies through the system view screen, which allows you to choose which species.

It feels like this is partially implemented functionality that has been forgotten.

[skoormit]

So you're saying if I hadn't ever had a sensor contact with these Precursor ships before, then I would have gotten a proper sub-pulse interrupt?    But because I've seen them once before, decades earlier, now they don't ever interrupt sub-pulses when they appear again with the same stats?

Yes. It's really weird, and not the behavior most players desire nor expect, but it is WAD although the volume of complaints suggests the D could use some adjustments (which, again, is a suggestions thread topic of some frequency).

This bothers me so much that I'm going to write a db script that will auto-purge old contacts, just to force the game to throw an interrupt at the next sighting.

[nuclearslurpee]

So you're saying if I hadn't ever had a sensor contact with these Precursor ships before, then I would have gotten a proper sub-pulse interrupt?    But because I've seen them once before, decades earlier, now they don't ever interrupt sub-pulses when they appear again with the same stats?

Yes. It's really weird, and not the behavior most players desire nor expect, but it is WAD although the volume of complaints suggests the D could use some adjustments (which, again, is a suggestions thread topic of some frequency).

This bothers me so much that I'm going to write a db script that will auto-purge old contacts, just to force the game to throw an interrupt at the next sighting.

I'd suggest tuning it to not delete contacts which have just been sighted on the last increment, for obvious reasons. This is also likely to cause a bug if you go into the events list to click an old contact which was deleted, since the event is not deleted along with the contact - but you're not likely to do that, so it should not be a problem.

Otherwise this seems like it would be useful QoL as a player loading a save would want to be reminded of old contacts anyways.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

SJW: Deleting a population that contains the top-level admin command will now result in that admin command moving to a new population.  A naval HQ will be created if no pops with existing HQs are available.

With the installation scrapping introduction, there is a potential for infinite dupe for wealth, boronide, mercassium and uridium (resources from scrapping Naval HQs) with intentional HQ moving and pop deletion, depending on how exactly these 2 features were implemented.
Might want to rethink the system a bit if this has not been accounted for already.

If people are that desperate to cheat at solitaire, there are many better ways already in the game