Author Topic: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition  (Read 202033 times)

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Offline skoormit

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2715 on: June 18, 2022, 04:59:39 PM »
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545. msg160392#msg160392 date=1655589162
Quote from: MeatyBoii link=topic=11545. msg160391#msg160391 date=1655589146
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545.  msg160390#msg160390 date=1655589038
Quote from: MeatyBoii link=topic=11545.  msg160389#msg160389 date=1655589017
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545.   msg160388#msg160388 date=1655588979
Does anyone know how many posts you have to have before you can upload images in posts?
(Asking for a friend.   )

It appears it's ten posts. 

Are you sure?
Must be, because I still can't post images.
How many posts do you have?
Nine for now.

So you just need one more?
 
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Offline MeatyBoii

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2716 on: June 18, 2022, 05:01:35 PM »
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545. msg160394#msg160394 date=1655589579
Quote from: MeatyBoii link=topic=11545. msg160393#msg160393 date=1655589533
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545.  msg160392#msg160392 date=1655589162
Quote from: MeatyBoii link=topic=11545.  msg160391#msg160391 date=1655589146
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545.   msg160390#msg160390 date=1655589038
Quote from: MeatyBoii link=topic=11545.   msg160389#msg160389 date=1655589017
Quote from: skoormit link=topic=11545.    msg160388#msg160388 date=1655588979
Does anyone know how many posts you have to have before you can upload images in posts?
(Asking for a friend.    )

It appears it's ten posts.   

Are you sure?
Must be, because I still can't post images. 
How many posts do you have?
Nine for now.

So you just need one more?

Yeah, and now I have them.  Awesome.
 
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Offline nakorkren

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2717 on: June 23, 2022, 10:16:16 PM »
Doing a trial run of multi-player-race and I'm wondering if there's a way to see all races' events at the same time? I'd rather not have to stop to change the race dropdown to check if anything happened between turns.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2718 on: June 23, 2022, 10:37:31 PM »
Yes. Turn SM on and then switch the race in Event window to "All races". It's only visible if you have SM mode on.
 
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Offline boolybooly

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2719 on: June 24, 2022, 03:52:33 AM »
I am having trouble with zoom related slowdown.

If I zoom in to add a waypoint to a planet or JP on its own it is a bit slow but playable but if there are any fleets at the same location it becomes unplayably slow. Its a particular proble with JPs because the waypoint does not snap to the JP as it does with planets so if I want to have my marker dead centre (for reasons of OCD neatness) I have to zoom to 0km scale and this can create a serious problem with non responsiveness if ships are present.

I guess this is a known thing, I was wondering if there are any tips or tricks for working around it? Apart obviously from not  zooming in to 0km on fleets.

One workaround I found was to add a random waypoint elsewhere away from the fleet, as you can use that to snap the POV away from the slowdown over the fleet to the clear space WP and zoom out again more easily, though that requires a little foresight.

Does anyone know why this happens?
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2720 on: June 24, 2022, 09:28:58 AM »
I am having trouble with zoom related slowdown.
[...]
Does anyone know why this happens?

Not really sure. It seems pretty well-known that once you zoom in to very small scales (in my experience, less than 10,000 or 20,000 km scale bar) there is a lot of lag. If I had to guess, I'd say there is some unoptimized rendering code, so the game is trying to draw features at high resolution which are not actually displayed to the screen, but I really don't know.
 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2721 on: June 24, 2022, 09:29:18 AM »
I am having trouble with zoom related slowdown.

If I zoom in to add a waypoint to a planet or JP on its own it is a bit slow but playable but if there are any fleets at the same location it becomes unplayably slow. Its a particular proble with JPs because the waypoint does not snap to the JP as it does with planets so if I want to have my marker dead centre (for reasons of OCD neatness) I have to zoom to 0km scale and this can create a serious problem with non responsiveness if ships are present.

I guess this is a known thing, I was wondering if there are any tips or tricks for working around it? Apart obviously from not  zooming in to 0km on fleets.

One workaround I found was to add a random waypoint elsewhere away from the fleet, as you can use that to snap the POV away from the slowdown over the fleet to the clear space WP and zoom out again more easily, though that requires a little foresight.

Does anyone know why this happens?

I have noticed this slowdown as well, though not quite as bad as you are describing.
It's not yet been bad enough for me to consider workarounds, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Have you tried unticking the Fleets box on the Display tab before zooming in?

2) You can insert the new waypoint directly in the database.
For this to work, you have to save and close the game, then do the insert, then open the game again.
Depending on your save/load time, this could take longer than the slowdown itself.
If you want to try this out, I'll gladly write a script for the insert, so that all you have to do is plug in two (maybe three) values. Doing it manually would take too many steps to be a reasonable workaround.

3) Before zooming in, SM-move any fleets present to another location. Then do your work, zoom back out, and move the fleets back.
This is probably the easiest answer if you don't have a large number of fleets in one place.

 
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Offline boolybooly

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2722 on: June 24, 2022, 12:35:55 PM »
I am having trouble with zoom related slowdown.
Does anyone know why this happens?

I have noticed this slowdown as well, though not quite as bad as you are describing.
It's not yet been bad enough for me to consider workarounds, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Have you tried unticking the Fleets box on the Display tab before zooming in?

2) You can insert the new waypoint directly in the database.
For this to work, you have to save and close the game, then do the insert, then open the game again.
Depending on your save/load time, this could take longer than the slowdown itself.
If you want to try this out, I'll gladly write a script for the insert, so that all you have to do is plug in two (maybe three) values. Doing it manually would take too many steps to be a reasonable workaround.

3) Before zooming in, SM-move any fleets present to another location. Then do your work, zoom back out, and move the fleets back.
This is probably the easiest answer if you don't have a large number of fleets in one place.


Thanks for your kind offer re 2) skoormit but don't worry. I have not got round to database editing for Aurora yet so not equipped, may try one day. I used to compact my SotS2 saves, I think that was sqlite so should be able to do it. Its just me being OCD anyway.

For now the fleet untick option looks like a good workaround as it does seem to help, so thanks, I hadn't thought of that.

Not really sure. It seems pretty well-known that once you zoom in to very small scales (in my experience, less than 10,000 or 20,000 km scale bar) there is a lot of lag. If I had to guess, I'd say there is some unoptimized rendering code, so the game is trying to draw features at high resolution which are not actually displayed to the screen, but I really don't know.

Thanks for answering and reflecting on the causes. Its a bit of an unexpected problem because I would have thought that if the display area was reduced as you zoom in then it ought to have less to display and so be quicker to render but isnt, as it gets worse the smaller the scale value, so very puzzling.

For some reason the presence of fleets at the same location makes it worse, but if they are displaced enough to go off the screen as you zoom in then it gets better the moment they vanish.

And it is specifically fleets, if you zoom on a planet or survey location or JP without a fleet present its OK, if you zoom on a fleet alone in mid space its pretty bad, if you zoom on 6 fleets at the same location e.g. a survey fleet splitting up to run surveys at a JP, it is almost impossible to get to 0km scale and back out again, it actually gets stuck as the lag is so bad, which suggests it is something about the way it is plotting fleet data. But as you say I don't know why that is, just working around it.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2723 on: June 24, 2022, 06:33:06 PM »
I just tested on 1.13 version with two fleets at Jupiter and encountered no lag at all despite zooming down to 0 km and back. Moving map at 0 km also had no lag.

Do the fleets need to be in motion?

EDIT: tested again with 7 fleets on Earth and okay now I see it. Only hits when I got down to under 20k km but for sure, the lag at 0 km got so bad I couldn't zoom out. Unticking fleets box on Display tab fixed the problem and yeah, no lag at higher zooms. I wonder if Steve has even noticed this problem because I hadn't!

« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 06:41:54 PM by Garfunkel »
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2724 on: June 24, 2022, 11:44:29 PM »
I've noticed it in the past only because I would zoom in to 3k or 6k scale for waypoint placement.

So if Steve cannot solve the bug the solution is to give us better waypoint placement.  ;D
 
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Offline boolybooly

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2725 on: June 25, 2022, 06:54:40 AM »
I just tested on 1.13 version with two fleets at Jupiter and encountered no lag at all despite zooming down to 0 km and back. Moving map at 0 km also had no lag.

Do the fleets need to be in motion?

EDIT: tested again with 7 fleets on Earth and okay now I see it. Only hits when I got down to under 20k km but for sure, the lag at 0 km got so bad I couldn't zoom out. Unticking fleets box on Display tab fixed the problem and yeah, no lag at higher zooms. I wonder if Steve has even noticed this problem because I hadn't!

Glad you managed to reproduce what I have seen, it does seem to vary depending on location but I cant say why or predict it. Was beginning to wonder if it was my drivers (nVidia 457.51 for RTX2700S) showing a 2D problem, which is not unheard of and might still be a factor but if others see the same its less likely, unless you have the same setup.

Something possibly related I noticed was that when you zoom below 26k to 3k the movement tails on single moving fleets can change orientation dramatically to an incorrect orientation, this depends on the turn time for the movement tail. (Disabling tail display does not seem to reduce response lag btw.) If you stay at that zoom and give a 5s turn it fixes itself.

Lag only really becomes obstructive below 3k on single fleets or small fleet gatherings, though at places like Earth with bundles of fleets it becomes noticeable around 103k. Agree it is not obstructive for most activities using the map as there is usually no need to zoom in that close even for combat.

I've noticed it in the past only because I would zoom in to 3k or 6k scale for waypoint placement.

So if Steve cannot solve the bug the solution is to give us better waypoint placement.  ;D

AFAIK its unknown what causes this zoom lag or if it has any impact on processing generally even at larger scale zooms. I tried testing and a 5s turn takes longer at 2k overlooking a fleet but its impossible to distinguish order response lag from turn processing time. I suspect the turn time is the same and its just the response to the mouse click order on the 5s button via the interface which makes it seem longer.

Perhaps an easy improvement would be to limit minimum zoom to 6k. Since 10k is the shortest weapons distance I can't see a problem. Waypoint snap to planet works fine and is essential for geoprobes but not needed for JP really as a sensor will be fine and a beam weapon will still work OK as long as it is less than 10k adrift.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 07:04:32 AM by boolybooly »
 

Offline skoormit

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2726 on: June 25, 2022, 07:09:44 AM »
Perhaps an easy improvement would be to limit minimum zoom to 6k.

But the whole reason we encounter this problem is that we need to zoom in to 0k to place a waypoint precisely on a JP.
If we can only zoom to 6k, placing JPs on waypoints will become...rather frustrating. Nothing to do but keep trying and deleting until you click the correct pixel.
 

Offline boolybooly

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2727 on: June 25, 2022, 08:52:58 AM »
Perhaps an easy improvement would be to limit minimum zoom to 6k.

But the whole reason we encounter this problem is that we need to zoom in to 0k to place a waypoint precisely on a JP.
If we can only zoom to 6k, placing JPs on waypoints will become...rather frustrating. Nothing to do but keep trying and deleting until you click the correct pixel.

You can use a magnifying glass or loup on the screen and sniper setting will help if you have an adjustable mouse... its doable !

Besides, if we can't zoom any closer we wont know that the waypoint is not dead centre, which may be one of those few situations where ignorance really is bliss.  ;D
 

Offline skoormit

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2728 on: June 25, 2022, 10:22:06 AM »
Besides, if we can't zoom any closer we wont know that the waypoint is not dead centre, which may be one of those few situations where ignorance really is bliss.  ;D

I need it to be dead center because I use them to SM-move engineless stations to jump points.
If I'm not bang on the JP, the station has to crawl over there at 1km/s.
 

Offline boolybooly

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2729 on: June 25, 2022, 02:11:14 PM »
Besides, if we can't zoom any closer we wont know that the waypoint is not dead centre, which may be one of those few situations where ignorance really is bliss.  ;D

I need it to be dead center because I use them to SM-move engineless stations to jump points.
If I'm not bang on the JP, the station has to crawl over there at 1km/s.

Oh OK, sorry I thought you were pulling my leg for being obsessive with my own zooming.

I have not tried that method for SM placing objects. You are saying there is no way to SM to the JP ?

That would be tricky if you were placing jump portal stations as they have to be on the JP to work obviously. Which suggests JPs could usefully be snap-to objects for waypoints, like planets and moons, no? Then the zoom could be locked at 6k.