Suggestions Thread for v2.0

[superstrijder15]

<snip>

It would also be cool to make it job specific. It makes sense for the tactical officer to get kill credits and for the science officer to get survey related credits while the chief engineer gets damage related credits.

You could have the CAG get the kill credits of the strike group, idk what you'd do for the XO.

It could be possible to add the requirement "have this job" to a medal, or allow checking of each job individually. Then players can decide for themselves if they want the XO to get kill credit, or both CO and XO, or the whole officer group.

[Elminster]

When giving the order to "Refuel and Resupply" at a colony, can we please get an automatic unloading of Survivors?

I had several occasions, where I rescued personnel, but forgot about them. Then years later the fleet moved to fight, and I get the message, that the life support is not enough, because they still had the survivors onboard.

[Aloriel]

When giving the order to "Refuel and Resupply" at a colony, can we please get an automatic unloading of Survivors?

I had several occasions, where I rescued personnel, but forgot about them. Then years later the fleet moved to fight, and I get the message, that the life support is not enough, because they still had the survivors onboard.

Any interaction with a colony seems like it ought to do this.

[TurielD]

Maybe it's time for another Theme import/update round?
Your last one seems to be more than 2 years ago.

Ofcourse this has nothing to do with the fact that I have submitted/corrected two of the Themes. 

Alternatively/Additionally, can we get a counter in the names of the Themes, so wew can easily see how much entries they have?

Perhaps an actual interface to add/edit themes

But perhaps more reasonably in addition to the above: could the Miscellaneous tab in Class Design show the list of of the chosen naming theme to the right of or below the selection window? Even better if the names could be marked with if they're already in use.

[TurielD]

Could we get an 'Fire control assignment'  tab in the Class Design window?

It seems like it should be the equivalent counterpart to the Ordnance & Fighters tab and it seems odd we don't have an option to designate standard/default Fire Controls for ships until after they're built - especially if there's only 1 fire control for all weapon systems.

[rainyday]

In light of the recent changes to Particle Beams I was looking at weapons and noticed something odd about Carronades. Some calibers of Carronades are one hull size smaller than the equivalent laser and that makes them output marginally more damage per HS at the meager 10k range they're useful. Other Carronade calibers are exactly the same size as the equivalent laser, which means they do the exact same damage per HS. This is a bit weird because it makes some calibers more useable than others. I think Carronades should do a bit more damage than lasers at 10k (they're already giving up armor penetration and range) so normalizing this to make all Carronades 1HS smaller than lasers would at least make them all equally viable.

Current game sizes of carronades and lasers.

          C-HS   L-HS
80cm   25    26
70cm   22    23
60cm   19    19
50cm   16    16
40cm   12    13
35cm   11    11
30cm   9    10
25cm   8    8
20cm   6    6
15cm   4    5

I might suggest going a step farther and making all Carronades significantly smaller, while keeping the current power requirements. Any size decrease gives them a point-blank edge over the same laser. Decreasing all carronade sizes by 1/4th or even more compared to the equivalent laser would give them a huge damage boost at point-blank range, while keeping them below the equivalent lasers and railguns after about 20k. Running up on one would be worse than getting a face full of gauss cannons, but the counter play is just to stay out of range.

[Jorgen_CAB]

In light of the recent changes to Particle Beams I was looking at weapons and noticed something odd about Carronades. Some calibers of Carronades are one hull size smaller than the equivalent laser and that makes them output marginally more damage per HS at the meager 10k range they're useful. Other Carronade calibers are exactly the same size as the equivalent laser, which means they do the exact same damage per HS. This is a bit weird because it makes some calibers more useable than others. I think Carronades should do a bit more damage than lasers at 10k (they're already giving up armor penetration and range) so normalizing this to make all Carronades 1HS smaller than lasers would at least make them all equally viable.

Current game sizes of carronades and lasers.

          C-HS   L-HS
80cm   25    26
70cm   22    23
60cm   19    19
50cm   16    16
40cm   12    13
35cm   11    11
30cm   9    10
25cm   8    8
20cm   6    6
15cm   4    5

I might suggest going a step farther and making all Carronades significantly smaller, while keeping the current power requirements. Any size decrease gives them a point-blank edge over the same laser. Decreasing all carronade sizes by 1/4th or even more compared to the equivalent laser would give them a huge damage boost at point-blank range, while keeping them below the equivalent lasers and railguns after about 20k. Running up on one would be worse than getting a face full of gauss cannons, but the counter play is just to stay out of range.

I don't agree with this, except perhaps the size thing.

First of... you rarely would have both laser and carronade technology line up so compering them exactly does not make much sense.

Carronades makes a ton more damage per shot than lasers do at close ranges, this have huge implications in combat, both in armour penetration and chock damage. DPS is not as important as people make it out to be, only to a certain degree.

Carronade technology is around half as expensive so you can advance up their technology tree MUCH faster, usually about two sometimes three technology levels higher then the equivalent other weapon systems. Getting to have a 20cm Ultraviolet laser cost you a total of 29.500RP, that is level 3 tech, while you get up to 40cm Carronades (level 6 technology) for the carronades for 30.000RP.

Carronades also effect ground troop weapon strength if not having two or three levels better ground troop weapons strength is a huge advantage I don't know what is.

The second thing is ground to orbit weapons emplacements, carronade size means very little for these installations and they are cheap too, this makes carronades a very effective ground to orbit weapon platform as well. One 20cm Ultraviolet laser STO you get 1.67 40cm Carronade STO for example in cost, sure the carronade is bigger... but on the ground that really don't matter much.

As Carronades is far cheaper and fire much less often they also consume way less MSP in prolonged combat engagements and also is cheaper in general to fit into your ships which can be important in many regards.

When it comes to Carronades you can't reflect on them on a level for level comparison... actually very few weapons system you can do that with as they all have very different capabilities.

I think that Carronades is in a very good place at the moment and serves a very interesting role... in the early to mid game carronades certainly is a very attractive weapon type with many benefits.

[rainyday]

Carronade technology is around half as expensive so you can advance up their technology tree MUCH faster, usually about two sometimes three technology levels higher then the equivalent other weapon systems.  Carronades also effect ground troop weapon strength if not having two or three levels better ground troop weapons strength is a huge advantage I don't know what is.

Yeah, but I'd argue that's a bad thing. The ground combat system wasn't designed for being able to artificially inflate your attack so far above armor at a given tech level and doing so is basically mandatory against another player. It's only so cheap in an effort to balance it against other ship weapons. It might as well be renamed to Ground Attack Strength and moved into the Ground Combat section.

As Carronades is far cheaper and fire much less often they also consume way less MSP in prolonged combat engagements and also is cheaper in general to fit into your ships which can be important in many regards.

This is interesting and I hadn't considered that aspect.

I think that Carronades is in a very good place at the moment and serves a very interesting role...

We're going to have to disagree on that one. They're very attractive as a ground weapon but the only situation I can see in space where a full load of carronades is better than equivalent tech cost lasers is maybe if your enemy is dumb enough to standard transit through a jump point and land within 20k of you. 

60 cm C8 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 96-8     RM 10,000 km    ROF 60        96 48 32 24 19 16 13 12 10 9
35 cm C8 X-Ray Laser (1)             Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 32-8     RM 70,000 km    ROF 20        32 32 32 32 32 32 32 27 24 22

Beyond 30k the laser does more damage, fires three times as fast and is 58% the size of the Carronade. It's debatable whether the Carronade wins even at 10k as both a 96 damage PC and a 32-damage laser penetrate 9 layers of armor, the laser will fire 3 times for every Carronade shot, and you can fit a lot more of them in the same space.

Making Carronades smaller won't make them much more useful at long ranges but it would make them more competitive against equal tech lasers in their supposed niche.

EDIT: At very low-tech levels the ability to research very large carronades so cheaply does make them more competitive at range see:

30 cm   C3 Plasma Carronade (1)         Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 24-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 40      24 12 8 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
15 cm   C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-3       RM 30,000 km    ROF 10        6   6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1

At this level, the carronade's damage actually falls off slower than the laser because of the comparatively low laser range tech. Still, the laser is 55% the size, fires four times as fast, doing the same damage over time even at 10k and both weapons have 4 armor penetration at point blank range. I suppose the carronades do quite a bit more shock damage though. I don't know how to evaluate that.

EDIT2 TLDR: I don't actually think early Carronades should be able to out range lasers at the same tech level or be usable to game the ground combat system or only be viable as low-tech weapons. I'd like to see them rebalanced to be viable in their niche for the whole game without conveying early game advantages. Making them smaller alone won't accomplish this, it would probably require some kind of very very expensive range boosting tech to make them more useful in the midgame while reducing their range early.

[nakorkren]

I've never researched carronades, so this is all speculation on my part, but...

Wouldn't the 96 damage from the carronade generate 3x as much shock damage vs the 36 damage laser, i.e. 18 vs 6 since shock damage goes up linearly above about 36 damage after you reach the 100% chance of doing shock damage? If so, that could that be significantly more helpful than additional DPS, at least against a heavily armored ship. The whole point of combat is to scramble the inside of the egg, not poke holes in the shell.

Note that since the laser has 3x the firing rate you will actually do the same DPS (both direct damage and shock) over time, but the larger single damage value from carronade seems like it should overcome HTK of internal components more frequently/consistently.

[rainyday]

Wouldn't the 96 damage from the carronade generate 3x as much shock damage vs the 36 damage laser, i.e. 18 vs 6 since shock damage goes up linearly above about 36 damage after you reach the 100% chance of doing shock damage? If so, that could that be significantly more helpful than additional DPS, at least against a heavily armored ship. The whole point of combat is to scramble the inside of the egg, not poke holes in the shell.

It's not quite that simple according to the mechanics post on shock damage (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg111676#msg111676) it depends on the size of the ship. If we have a 16000-ton ship (320 HS):

Each Carronade shot has a 30% chance of dealing shock damage (96 / 320) which will randomly deal between 1 and 19 (20% total damage) points of shock damage to internal components.
Each Laser shot has a 10% chance of dealing shock damage (32 / 320) which will randomly deal between 1 and 6 (20% total damage) points of shock damage to internal components.

So, yes, there is definitely potential for some huge burst shock damage from a carronade shot.

[Jorgen_CAB]

60 cm C8 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 96-8     RM 10,000 km    ROF 60        96 48 32 24 19 16 13 12 10 9
35 cm C8 X-Ray Laser (1)             Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 32-8     RM 70,000 km    ROF 20        32 32 32 32 32 32 32 27 24 22

Beyond 30k the laser does more damage, fires three times as fast and is 58% the size of the Carronade. It's debatable whether the Carronade wins even at 10k as both a 96 damage PC and a 32-damage laser penetrate 9 layers of armor, the laser will fire 3 times for every Carronade shot, and you can fit a lot more of them in the same space.

Making Carronades smaller won't make them much more useful at long ranges but it would make them more competitive against equal tech lasers in their supposed niche.

EDIT: At very low-tech levels the ability to research very large carronades so cheaply does make them more competitive at range see:

30 cm   C3 Plasma Carronade (1)         Range 192,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 24-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 40      24 12 8 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
15 cm   C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-3       RM 30,000 km    ROF 10        6   6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1

At this level, the carronade's damage actually falls off slower than the laser because of the comparatively low laser range tech. Still, the laser is 55% the size, fires four times as fast, doing the same damage over time even at 10k and both weapons have 4 armor penetration at point blank range. I suppose the carronades do quite a bit more shock damage though. I don't know how to evaluate that.

EDIT2 TLDR: I don't actually think early Carronades should be able to out range lasers at the same tech level or be usable to game the ground combat system or only be viable as low-tech weapons. I'd like to see them rebalanced to be viable in their niche for the whole game without conveying early game advantages. Making them smaller alone won't accomplish this, it would probably require some kind of very very expensive range boosting tech to make them more useful in the midgame while reducing their range early.

The issue is not the Carronade in and of itself... it is rather that the damage increase is not in line with the research cost of the weapon... the first example is not a fair one though as the Carronade is 120 RP weapon while the laser is a 239 RP weapon... a more closer match would be a 70cm Carronade. A 70cm Carronade also cost 90BP while the 35cm laser cost 316 BP with equivalent level capacitor.

But as you say, the laser will get better over time because its firepower are constantly quadrupled with both better range modification and damage, the Carronade keep its range modification at 10k through all tech levels.

This is also why I said they are just fine in the early to mid game, no late game... at least for me any technology at 60k base cost is late game technology.... I rarely play past 100k technology mark as I play with reduced tech speed in almost all my games.

In any way... you can't just compare ONE parameter of a weapon and say it is not fair or unbalanced... you have to look at everything that technology will bring. I think it is just fine that weapom system are asymmetrical towards each other, they don't have to be equally good at all technology levels. I don't want weapons to become bland and more or less equal in a rock, paper sciossor kind of way, there is no need for that. The Carronade have it's main use as ground weapons, STO and extreme close combat weapon in space.

[nuclearslurpee]

Carronade technology is around half as expensive so you can advance up their technology tree MUCH faster, usually about two sometimes three technology levels higher then the equivalent other weapon systems.  Carronades also effect ground troop weapon strength if not having two or three levels better ground troop weapons strength is a huge advantage I don't know what is.

Yeah, but I'd argue that's a bad thing. The ground combat system wasn't designed for being able to artificially inflate your attack so far above armor at a given tech level and doing so is basically mandatory against another player. It's only so cheap in an effort to balance it against other ship weapons. It might as well be renamed to Ground Attack Strength and moved into the Ground Combat section.

I consider this a large enough exploit that I bump the RP cost of carronades up by 50% in my DBs. Since ground combat effectiveness scales to the fourth power of the tech level (roughly), it is really ridiculous. I have considered putting it back to 2x as in VB6 but I know it was changed for a reason - but then again, VB6 had a separate ground forces attack tech line, so maybe back to 2x is a good idea. Jorgen is certainly correct that the carronade as it is constitutes a quite strong and respectable choice of weapon - especially since it only has one tech instead of 2-3, so a carronade caliber that costs 30k RP to develop is the same net research cost as most weapons' 15k RP level since you have to develop 2-3 of those 15k techs.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I consider this a large enough exploit that I bump the RP cost of carronades up by 50% in my DBs. Since ground combat effectiveness scales to the fourth power of the tech level (roughly), it is really ridiculous. I have considered putting it back to 2x as in VB6 but I know it was changed for a reason - but then again, VB6 had a separate ground forces attack tech line, so maybe back to 2x is a good idea. Jorgen is certainly correct that the carronade as it is constitutes a quite strong and respectable choice of weapon - especially since it only has one tech instead of 2-3, so a carronade caliber that costs 30k RP to develop is the same net research cost as most weapons' 15k RP level since you have to develop 2-3 of those 15k techs.

But is it really... if you take laser technology as an example it is only tied to the size of the gun, not with the range modification technology... so they are pretty much the same cost. It is you that choose to spend more time on other technologies so it is your priority that makes the difference not the technology.

The Carronade will give you one extra level of ground technology for the same cost as the laser.
Railgun will be slightly more expensive in the first levels but will be even cheaper than Carronade technology as you move up the tech levels.
Particle beam technology is the most expensive to raise ground weapon technology.

No weapon is equal in this regard...

[Elminster]

When setting Themes for Star Systems, please add a checkbox for random picks.
Similar to ship names.

[nakorkren]

When setting Themes for Star Systems, please add a checkbox for random picks.
Similar to ship names.

This, this, a thousand times this!