NC Part 18: September 2050 - February 2051

[MWadwell]

because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.

Kurt

Aint that the truth - and usually the Commonwealth/Rigellian are the big winners.....

[Michael Sandy]

The new destroyer also has more advanced fire control.  I don't think that it would be practical to refit the Odysseus class to the Hermes, so calling it by a similar class name would be inappropriate.

The practical reasons for a Jump Gate Network to Thebes are that it allows the Commonwealth to _defend_ Thebes, and to colonize it more efficiently.  And to get real time communications with the colony.

I agree that shipping Automated Mines from Thebes to Plataea looks more practical.  Take manned mines from Earth, exchange them for Automated Mines, then on to Plataea.  Then shuttle back and forth between Plataea and Thebes until enough Automated Mines have been emplaced to meet Mercassium needs.  Keeping in mind that some Mercassium is being stockpiled at Acheron, and Gitanyow could trade more.

Um.  That comes to about 40 mines, with a +20% governor, to get 800 tons from A-II Moon 12, or about 50 mines to get that from moon 5.

This seems like a good time to divert freighters from shipping manned mines to Thebes, while still shipping population to it.

I may be overestimated Mercassium needs.
After developing Magneto-plasma drive, and probably power boost 10% and developing a magneto-plasma PB 10% drive, the Commonwealth will be busy refitting lots of ships with the new engines.  That will reduce the need for Mercassium for new colony ships as it may be more efficient to upgrade the old colony ships, either by replacing the old engines or just adding more.

With the Jump Network to Thebes, it won't be necessary to convoy.  Nor will it be necessary to keep colony ships under 100 HS anymore.  And the jump network should be complete by the time the Commonwealth develops MP Drive +10% engines, or at least by the time ships with the new engine are refitted.

I must emphasize that without the Jump Network to Thebes there would be _huge_ inefficiencies associated with upgrading the engines on some ships but not others.

After developing the new engine, I would recommend developing Ceramic Composite Armor.  There would be a moritorium on new construction with all the refits, and then you could start with new construction with Magneto Plasma drives and the improved armor from the start.

[Michael Sandy]

Kurt, I am saying that I had a problem with the philosophical attiude in Starfire that everything had to be conquered or assimilated.

I had a problem with the tendency towards absolute monarchies in Starfire, in order to have a justification for every piece obeying the Micromanging Emperor to the last twitch.  Democracy and silly concerns about treaties were regarded as obstacles to the expansion of empire that would only be adhered to for sentimental reasons.

Yes, I understand it is a game, and it is about combat and expansion, and I really enjoyed Dan Preston's Orc race stories (whatever happened to them?) but it bothers me a bit.

I am not terribly bothered by the underhanded way the Commonwealth dealt with the Terran Union.  That involved the destruction of a naval vessel, not civilian populations.  US and USSR subs played a dangerous game of chicken during the Cold War.  Some subs were lost as a result of accidents from playing too hard.

I like the idea of wars being a bit similar to that of the Age of Sail.  Nobody is going to be marching into the enemy Capitals any time soon, but they are going to skirmish and jockey for position whenever they can get away with it.

The Pieksamaki Republic battles remind me of gunboat diplomacy.  Sometimes it works, and sometimes, as the Asians found with respect to Gitanyow, it doesn't.

[MWadwell]

The new destroyer also has more advanced fire control.  I don't think that it would be practical to refit the Odysseus class to the Hermes, so calling it by a similar class name would be inappropriate.

I wasn't talking about re-naming the Odysseus class DD's, merely about upgrading them to the Hermes standard.

It would have worked out cheaper and quicker than building new ships.....

The practical reasons for a Jump Gate Network to Thebes are that it allows the Commonwealth to _defend_ Thebes, and to colonize it more efficiently.  And to get real time communications with the colony.

Agreed - but to complete the link to Thebes will take over 2 years. Whereas it would only take 1 year to link Herakleia.....

I agree that the link to Thebes makes better sense, but I wanted to point out that a link to Herakleia is also needed sooner or later.....

[MWadwell]

Presumably on orders from the Terran government, the frigate now engages and destroys a third Hufuf and a Matrah class troop transport, both of which were mothballed in geosynchronous orbit above Islamic Alliance territory.

What about the shipyards - or are they based on the planets surface rather than in orbit.... (I've always assumed that they were in orbit.)

22nd February 2051
Beijing announces that the former Islamic Alliance is joining the Asian Alliance and warns the Commonwealth and Terran Reich that all Islamic citizens are now under Asian protection. However, the Alliance offers to extradite the former Islamic leadership to the Reich so they can stand trial and hand over 300 tons of Duranium as reparation for the loss of the frigate.

It might just be my evil mind   , but I had a thought that the Terran Reich might soon figure out who destroyed their jump carrier in Corinth during the "questioning" (read - "interrogation") of the Caliph.

Something along the lines of the Caliph declaring that the Terran Reich is co-ordinating with the Commonwealth in trying to keep the Alliance down by stopping them from leaving Sol. (The Terrans and Commonwealth obviously are co-ordinating by not mentioning the "Jump Gate Gravitational Stabilisers" - which the Terrans know don't exist.)

The Terrans would then re-consider how they lost their jump carrier, and either ask either for sensor data of the battle with the "aliens", or of a "payoff" for keeping quiet. (The payoff could be either something like 2000t of Duranium, or 10 automated mines, or a mix of the two.....)

[Michael Sandy]

During the discussion of the Asian attack on the Gitanyow it came out that shipyards were planet based.  I asked what exactly the Asians were trying to do, closing with the planet, if they didn't have anything they could actually do to the planet.

If the goal was indeed to put the planet under siege and destroy its mobile units, they would have needed to control the orbit for a long period of time, which to me meant having to run the Gitanyow out of missiles at the lowest possible cost.  Oops.  Arrogant Chinese Admiral, dead Chinese Admiral.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Very interesting.  Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire.  Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.

That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.Kurt

Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)

Steve

[Centerfed]

Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5) Steve

Now I have to butt in with the question:

How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?

HD

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

I wonder if all that population being grafted onto the Asians will be a help or a hindrance. Is there anyplace worthwhile moving them to, or are they going to riot and secede when it becomes clear that they're going to stay and die?

What seems to be needed now is a comet-mining complex: a semi-mobile mine that moves from comet to comet in the outer reaches, mining for minerals, processing hydrogen for fuel, and sending the processed minerals into the inner system via massdriver. Undoubtedly a major investment, but with the numbers showing up from just a few comets, well worth it.

The extra population won't do them any harm but they already have more than they need so the extra industry is far more useful. There are no rules for the ffects of rioting populations but I may have to add some in the future. Probably some type of random industrial damage depending on the level of unrest.

Funny you should mention the comet mining complex. I am considering some type of mining module for ships that allows the ship to extract minerals from a planet directly into its cargo bays. This would probably cost about the same as an automated mine but be more compact (probably 25HS). However, unlike ground-based mines it would require supply (due to being part of a ship) so it would be more expensive over time. That extra cost is offset by its flexibility.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD

Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar

Steve

[Centerfed]

Centerfed wrote:
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD

Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar Steve

Oh.  That.  I knew that, but didn't know that was what you wanted it called.  I read it as Communications and Diplomacy since that was the window title at the top.  Confusing.

HD

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Just out of curiosity, why not just update the Odysseus class DD? Looking at the ship designs, the only real difference is the number (and type) of engines, and the amount of carried supplies....

Plus a extra fairly expensive (128 BP) fire control system. The cost to refit from the Odysseus class to the Hermes class is 435 BP, although a cheaper upgrade for the Odysseus using their current engines is also possible.

As Thebes is 3 jumps from Sol (and so needs another 4 gates), who not first link Herakleia using jumpgates? You need only half the number of gates, and opens up Thessalonica as well (which has a number of planets with good habitability)....

I know that Thebes has a lot more going for it (like it's shorter distance, and more minerals), but you could put a link to Herakleia a lot easier than to Thebes.

I am making Thebes the priority because that is current destination for all the colonists and mines. I could put in a jump gate more quicky to Herakleia but most likely wouldn't use it because I need to move things to Thebes. The Herakleia population is also a lot further away than Thebes (almost twice as far), so despite the shorter number of jumps, the actual distances makes Thebes a better option.

Why not take the automated mines from Thebes? I notice that later you take the automated mines from Toronto - but I just thought to mention that you could get the mines from Thebes to Plataea a LOT quicker than you can take the mines from Sol to Plataea....

At some point I will be taking the mines from Thebes but I just wanted to redeploy the Toronto mines because the mining outpost is too far out for a only a few mines and I want to concetrate my efforts on Thebes and Plataea. Once Toronto is dealt with, I will look at moving the Thebes mines.

What about turning off some of the construction factories, and transfer the population to the mines?

At this point in time, the Commonwealth (as a whole) needs minerals more than it does infrastructure/missile silos on Thebes (especially if the Commonwealth is going to have to subsidise the Terrans/Alliance/etc. economy).

You can't transfer population between factories and mines. All production facilities are always manned but you can choose not to use them. I don't think it would be realistic to have workers who could handle any job in the economy. It would also allow races to build huge amounts of factories

I agree about the economy needing Duranium and I may halt the construction of missile silos.

Mmmm - I'd debate this - as after all when the Alliance(?) approached the Commonwealth with the idea of a merger, the Commonwealth knocked it back as the would need to ship out a LOT more population before Nemesis arrives.....

That was more of a roleplaying decision. The extra population is no use but in game terms it is no hindrance either. The extra industry will come in very useful in the future for the Asian Alliance

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

What about the shipyards - or are they based on the planets surface rather than in orbit.... (I've always assumed that they were in orbit.)

Ships are assembled in orbit but the vast majority of a shipyard complex is on the planet (similar to The Yard in Insurrection).

It might just be my evil mind   , but I had a thought that the Terran Reich might soon figure out who destroyed their jump carrier in Corinth during the "questioning" (read - "interrogation") of the Caliph.

Something along the lines of the Caliph declaring that the Terran Reich is co-ordinating with the Commonwealth in trying to keep the Alliance down by stopping them from leaving Sol. (The Terrans and Commonwealth obviously are co-ordinating by not mentioning the "Jump Gate Gravitational Stabilisers" - which the Terrans know don't exist.)

The Terrans would then re-consider how they lost their jump carrier, and either ask either for sensor data of the battle with the "aliens", or of a "payoff" for keeping quiet. (The payoff could be either something like 2000t of Duranium, or 10 automated mines, or a mix of the two.....)

Hmm definite possibilities there.

Steve

[Randy]

And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich instead of Terran Reich ?

[Erik L]

And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich?

Talk about personal flashbacks... about 10 years ago, I was in an online clan/guild called the Fourth Reich.