Author Topic: How do you abuse NPR's?  (Read 1672 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DFNewb (OP)

  • Captain
  • **********
  • D
  • Posts: 508
  • Thanked: 103 times
How do you abuse NPR's?
« on: May 31, 2020, 12:33:01 AM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.
 

Offline Gabethebaldandbold

  • last member of the noob swarm
  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Posts: 242
  • Thanked: 30 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 01:08:11 AM »
xeno scum is to be purged. lay on the exterminatus and remove this heresy from the galaxy in the name of the God Emperor of Mankind
To beam, or not to beam.   That is the question
the answer is you beam. and you better beam hard.
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

  • Bug Moderators
  • Commodore
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 670
  • Thanked: 159 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2020, 01:18:36 AM »
Many of my games die young.  Finding Swarm through the first JP is my personal record.  Return that favour.  Be the Swarm:)
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • J
  • Posts: 2837
  • Thanked: 673 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2020, 04:08:22 PM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.

There are many things you can do to make sure you don't move past the NPR in technology and power too fast.

You can play a conventional game with slower technology... it will take allot more time to catch up.

You can put rules and regulations for both industry and research mechanics so you can't "optimize".

A few examples...

1. I only allow labs to be provided into ONE research category and I can't switch them to another category unless I'm willing to transfer two and SM out one of them from the game. That forces me to spread out the research which is much less efficient. The government usually require several things to be researched at the same time as well (even if that is very inefficient), that is what governments do.  ;)

2. Use industry in a more realistic way... you can't just switch industry from one project to the next in reality.. make sure you only can change industry by about 10% per year without any penalties. If you want to switch more you need to put part of the industry on hold... I generally only allow about 10% change per year anything above that I only get half and then every year I don't switch more than 10% if get half of it back or all if it is 10% or less and that is all that I switch.

Both of these options will force you to make more realistic long term choices.

Another way is to role-play a bit more. Sometimes people are not wanting what is efficient but what they feel is more appropriate to them not the community. Allow your administrators traits to govern how they develop colonies even if it is not optimal.

People generally don't live for making the government rich and prosperous and individual leaders might have different ideas what is the best use of resources. A colony might want to invest whatever resources they make into their own colony rather than support some foolish venture into the other side of the galaxy. They might rise up against the huge expenditure of the military ships and ground forces instead of developing their colonies and transform a new planet which is a potential colony... etc...

Don't play the game from YOUR perspective but from the perspective of the people living in it, try to find out what it is they want and make sure that different leaders, parties or whatever governing structure you have strive for different goals and agendas. This also means they make decisions from what they know works and don't work, they have no idea how the game mechanics work or have any previous experiences from past games. Most societies no matter how structured or empire like they might be will have to deal with people as individuals at some level.

In short... there are MANY tools of which you can play the game so NPR still feel like a challenge over the course of an entire game.

In my opinion the NPR are just in the game for you to experience some conflict and challenge you. Playing the game is the ultimate goal and "winning" the game is not what it is about. Therefore it is better to find some interesting role-play aspect that you like and go with it... the more restriction you put on yourself or the more problems you give yourself the more you will feel satisfied when you do well in the end.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 04:18:35 PM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

Offline DFNewb (OP)

  • Captain
  • **********
  • D
  • Posts: 508
  • Thanked: 103 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 04:19:49 PM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.

There are many things you can do to make sure you don't move past the NPR in technology and power too fast.

You can play a conventional game with slower technology... it will take allot more time to catch up.

You can put rules and regulations for both industry and research mechanics so you can't "optimize".

A few examples...

1. I only allow labs to be provided into ONE research category and I can't switch them to another category unless I'm willing to transfer two and SM out one of them from the game. That forces me to spread out the research which is much less efficient. The government usually require several things to be researched at the same time as well (even if that is very inefficient), that is what governments do.  ;)

2. Use industry in a more realistic way... you can't just switch industry from one project to the next in reality.. make sure you only can change industry by about 10% per year without any penalties. If you want to switch more you need to put part of the industry on hold... I generally only allow about 10% change per year anything above that I only get half and then every year I don't switch more than 10% if get half of it back or all if it is 10% or less and that is all that I switch.

Both of these options will force you to make more realistic long term choices.

Another way is to role-play a bit more. Sometimes people are not wanting what is efficient but what they feel is more appropriate to them not the community. Allow your administrators traits to govern how they develop colonies even if it is not optimal.

people generally don't live for making the government rich and prosperous and individual leaders might have different ideas what is the best use of resources. A colony might want to invest whatever resources they make into their own colony rather than support some foolish venture into the other side of the galaxy. They might rise up against the huge expenditure of the military ships and ground forces instead of developing their colonies and transform a new planet which is a potential colony... etc...

Don't play the game from YOUR perspective but from the perspective of the people living in it, try to find out what it is they want and make sure that different leaders, parties or whatever governing structure you have strive for different goals and agendas. Most societies no matter how structured or empire like they might be will have to deal with people as individuals at some level.

In short... there are MANY tools of which you can play the game so NPR still feel like a challenge over the course of an entire game.

In my opinion the NPR are just in the game for you to experience some conflict and challenge you. Playing the game is the ultimate goal and "winning" the game is not what it is about. Therefore it is better to find some interesting role-play aspect that you like and go with it... the more restriction you put on yourself or the more problems you give yourself the more you will feel satisfied when you do well in the end.

Well I am not entirely sure what was happening but I suspect this NPR has been sending combat fleets out somewhere which were getting destroyed. I have NPR interact with spoilers on and there is also another NPR who is friendly but this first one I am destroying is auto agro so I suspect these two have been at war and trading fleets for some time now. There have been quite a few pauses in my time passing not done by me. I think the second NPR I am allied with might be more advanced technologically, even so I am already surprised at seeing magneto on an NPR cause in my last conventional start game the NPR was still on advanced nuclear pulse 80 years in (this was 100 percent difficulty).

Still haven't seen any aether rifts yet but I barely grav searched 20 systems before the war. Now with war over I will explore more.

I think for my 1.2 I will simply put it to 500 percent or something.
 

Offline Froggiest1982

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • F
  • Posts: 1332
  • Thanked: 591 times
  • Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    2023 Supporter 2023 Supporter : Donate for 2023
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 04:29:31 PM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.

Don't play the game from YOUR perspective but from the perspective of the people living in it, try to find out what it is they want and make sure that different leaders, parties or whatever governing structure you have strive for different goals and agendas. This also means they make decisions from what they know works and don't work, they have no idea how the game mechanics work or have any previous experiences from past games. Most societies no matter how structured or empire like they might be will have to deal with people as individuals at some level.

In short... there are MANY tools of which you can play the game so NPR still feel like a challenge over the course of an entire game.

In my opinion the NPR are just in the game for you to experience some conflict and challenge you. Playing the game is the ultimate goal and "winning" the game is not what it is about. Therefore it is better to find some interesting role-play aspect that you like and go with it... the more restriction you put on yourself or the more problems you give yourself the more you will feel satisfied when you do well in the end.

The above is so true.

Personally, when I am up for some NPR games I just reduce research to 20% and Survey speed to 10%. I really think it is a game-changer. The survey takes years and research takes decades! Every move needs to be planned and every jump is a risk sometimes worth taking.

Offline DFNewb (OP)

  • Captain
  • **********
  • D
  • Posts: 508
  • Thanked: 103 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2020, 04:42:17 PM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.

Don't play the game from YOUR perspective but from the perspective of the people living in it, try to find out what it is they want and make sure that different leaders, parties or whatever governing structure you have strive for different goals and agendas. This also means they make decisions from what they know works and don't work, they have no idea how the game mechanics work or have any previous experiences from past games. Most societies no matter how structured or empire like they might be will have to deal with people as individuals at some level.

In short... there are MANY tools of which you can play the game so NPR still feel like a challenge over the course of an entire game.

In my opinion the NPR are just in the game for you to experience some conflict and challenge you. Playing the game is the ultimate goal and "winning" the game is not what it is about. Therefore it is better to find some interesting role-play aspect that you like and go with it... the more restriction you put on yourself or the more problems you give yourself the more you will feel satisfied when you do well in the end.

The above is so true.

Personally, when I am up for some NPR games I just reduce research to 20% and Survey speed to 10%. I really think it is a game-changer. The survey takes years and research takes decades! Every move needs to be planned and every jump is a risk sometimes worth taking.

I am thinking that I will RP it that"officially" the war is over but I will test new ship designs and run some ground combat on their outer colonies. I am pretty happy that I didn't just send my fleet at the homeworld and bomb them into nothing cause they might of surrendered and that would not be ideal for my purposes. The current actual goal is to find and fight invaders but this super agro 1 warning then shoot NPR was scaring me as their jump gate network crept closer and closer to Sol, seeing as I don't use Jump gates at all, but I suppose with NPR's on and even allying them I should expect jump gate spam.


Fun random thing I found to do; Set your jump grav survey ships with their transponder - all on so you will be sure to encounter any aliens in the same system as you.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • J
  • Posts: 2837
  • Thanked: 673 times
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2020, 04:51:03 PM »
So 80 years into a conventional game and I've gone from losing 300k tons of ships 40 years ago against the alien menace to destroying a million tons without taking any losses and only a few armor hits (this is on 200 percent difficulty).

Turns out when we first met 40 years ago they had at least 1 level of tech on engines on me but now 40 years later I out tech them in many fields.

I finally finished a new fleet with full training and sent it into their home system and went around blowing up ships wherever I could find them and found numerous alien colonies spread around the system. I pretty much have space superiority, what should I do now? The ground combat is kinda painful to do right now especially with all the bugs. Should I bomb them to the stone age?


What do you do when you have full power over an NPR? Before anyone says peace I am already at peace and trading with another NPR.

Don't play the game from YOUR perspective but from the perspective of the people living in it, try to find out what it is they want and make sure that different leaders, parties or whatever governing structure you have strive for different goals and agendas. This also means they make decisions from what they know works and don't work, they have no idea how the game mechanics work or have any previous experiences from past games. Most societies no matter how structured or empire like they might be will have to deal with people as individuals at some level.

In short... there are MANY tools of which you can play the game so NPR still feel like a challenge over the course of an entire game.

In my opinion the NPR are just in the game for you to experience some conflict and challenge you. Playing the game is the ultimate goal and "winning" the game is not what it is about. Therefore it is better to find some interesting role-play aspect that you like and go with it... the more restriction you put on yourself or the more problems you give yourself the more you will feel satisfied when you do well in the end.

The above is so true.

Personally, when I am up for some NPR games I just reduce research to 20% and Survey speed to 10%. I really think it is a game-changer. The survey takes years and research takes decades! Every move needs to be planned and every jump is a risk sometimes worth taking.

I'm down to 50% terraforming, 15% research and 5% survey in my conventional start game I started yesterday. In my former game I started at 20% research and lowered it steadily down to about 10% over time as my game progressed and I got more and more research and population. Research tend to just go faster and faster even if it doubles for every tech level so I now tend to lower the global research over time as well as starting at about 15-20% (depending on my starting population).

As you said... it forces allot more long time planning... if you also include some of the other rules I have in research and industry and role-play I WILL struggle the entire game as I need to expand with very limited technology to support it. No transport ships with 1% fuel efficiency that do 3000km/s speed after 50 years for example.
 

Offline Froggiest1982

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • F
  • Posts: 1332
  • Thanked: 591 times
  • Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    2023 Supporter 2023 Supporter : Donate for 2023
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2020, 05:19:48 PM »
5% survey

Brutal. I just keep in house rule: only 1 Geo or Surv sensor per ship and the Improved Sensors are banned.

I might try it though, I am about to leave Sol (well in probably 15 years as I have to research the Jump Engines techs) so as soon as I am about to do the first jump I might adjust my setting.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 05:33:34 PM by froggiest1982 »
 

Offline vorpal+5

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 626
  • Thanked: 127 times
  • Silver Supporter Silver Supporter : Support the forums with a Silver subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: How do you abuse NPR's?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2020, 10:46:14 PM »
There is also the matter of adding initial NPRs at game start. If you add 3, then there are big chances one will roll something like 200%+ of your population base. Factor 80 years in the future ... You might be for a surprise.
But this must be coupled with aggressive exploration. If you are happy not exploring anything or only a few systems, then you don't generate new NPRs. You should open up the systems by going through wormholes even if you have not completed full survey of said system.
Because otherwise the game is literally waiting for you to catch up, which is not good.

I'll probably play with 6 starting NPR for my next serious game, I want to be sure one at least is a thriving empire by the time I knock at their door with a scout.