Author Topic: Any terraforming calculator?  (Read 5692 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Norm49 (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 1
  • *****
  • N
  • Posts: 76
  • Thanked: 15 times
Any terraforming calculator?
« on: August 13, 2020, 12:18:19 AM »
Dose any terraforming calculator was create for C# like we had in 4x? I know making a spreed sheet is not hard but i don't know the formula.

Thanks for you answer.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 12:27:34 AM by Norm49 »
 

Offline Demonides

  • Gold Supporter
  • Warrant Officer, Class 1
  • *****
  • Posts: 94
  • Thanked: 145 times
  • 2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    2023 Supporter 2023 Supporter : Donate for 2023
    2024 Supporter 2024 Supporter : Donate for 2024
 

Offline Iceranger

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • I
  • Posts: 391
  • Thanked: 229 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 09:39:41 AM »
There is one shared in the discord server.
 

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 12:06:33 PM »
EDIT: Don't download this one. I've posted a better version in the utilities section.

If you want a head start on making a spreadsheet, I've attached my own.
It gives optimal target atmosphere conditions from any given starting conditions (including race parameters), and also shows how long it will take (in "TFIyrs": Terraforming Installation Years) given your current tech level, admin bonus, and average commander bonus (EDIT: the commander bonus input fields are not factored in).
It also does some aggregating of mineral deposit data for reporting/reviewing purposes. Useful for deciding which bodies to mine next.
The second sheet calculates target water vapor pressure based on your terraforming rate (so that you don't waste time adding too much), and gives ETAs for finishing vapor, finishing other gases, and vapor evaporating.

There's probably far more here than you really want, but you can pare it down as you like.

The easiest way to get the data into the spreadsheet is to run a query against the database.
I've included the query on the third sheet if you'd like to do that.
DB Browser for SQLLite is the free tool I use.


DISCLAIMER:
This was designed for personal use, so expect it to contain some things that are not self-explanatory.
I'm happy to answer any questions.
And if you find any errors, I would love to know.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 10:31:15 AM by skoormit »
 
The following users thanked this post: Zincat, db48x, Norm49

Offline Norm49 (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 1
  • *****
  • N
  • Posts: 76
  • Thanked: 15 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 04:15:35 PM »
shoormit fist thanks!

Butit do have a question. Dose your spreadsheet take in to consideration the change in temperature when ice melt?
 

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 06:25:59 PM »
shoormit fist thanks!

Butit do have a question. Dose your spreadsheet take in to consideration the change in temperature when ice melt?

It does not.
In fact, it can't, because the albedo change is randomized.
In practice, it's not a big problem. When you get the event log entry for it, just redo the calculation and adjust your Aestusium target.
 

Offline db48x

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • d
  • Posts: 641
  • Thanked: 200 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2020, 08:33:20 PM »
If you want a head start on making a spreadsheet, I've attached my own.
It gives optimal target atmosphere conditions from any given starting conditions (including race parameters), and also shows how long it will take (in "TFIyrs": Terraforming Installation Years) given your current tech level, admin bonus, and average commander bonus.
It also does some aggregating of mineral deposit data for reporting/reviewing purposes. Useful for deciding which bodies to mine next.
The second sheet calculates target water vapor pressure based on your terraforming rate (so that you don't waste time adding too much), and gives ETAs for finishing vapor, finishing other gases, and vapor evaporating.

There's probably far more here than you really want, but you can pare it down as you like.

The easiest way to get the data into the spreadsheet is to run a query against the database.
I've included the query on the third sheet if you'd like to do that.
DB Browser for SQLLite is the free tool I use.


DISCLAIMER:
This was designed for personal use, so expect it to contain some things that are not self-explanatory.
I'm happy to answer any questions.
And if you find any errors, I would love to know.

Thanks for uploading this; I must have wasted a couple of hours messing with it already. I've got a game with real stars and a sol start, but the query only returns any rows for the moons of Minerva, Sol's planet X. The query labels Minerva SOL-A19, so that seems ok, but SOL-A3 and so on are all missing.

Is there some condition in this query that limits what it returns data for?
 

Offline Iceranger

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • I
  • Posts: 391
  • Thanked: 229 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2020, 10:01:07 PM »
shoormit fist thanks!

Butit do have a question. Dose your spreadsheet take in to consideration the change in temperature when ice melt?

It does not.
In fact, it can't, because the albedo change is randomized.
In practice, it's not a big problem. When you get the event log entry for it, just redo the calculation and adjust your Aestusium target.

Based on Steve's reply, it is not randomized.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11405.msg133033#msg133033

So at least one calculator considers that :)
 

Offline db48x

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • d
  • Posts: 641
  • Thanked: 200 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2020, 11:28:04 PM »
DISCLAIMER:
This was designed for personal use, so expect it to contain some things that are not self-explanatory.
I'm happy to answer any questions.
And if you find any errors, I would love to know.

I haven't found any errors, but I have made some small improvements. In R2C9 I added a percentage for the terraforming difficulty; it's just another multiplicative factor in R5C9: =R[-3]C*R[-2]C*(1+R[-1]C).

I made two changes to the formula for TFIy. First, I didn't give a score to any world where the final colony cost was greater than 4. Then, I made it show a 0.0 for any world which already has a colony cost of 0, so that the worlds that are finished sort to the top. It's more of a debugging aid than information the user really needs, but on the other hand it does give a nice baseline. The formula is =IF(RC[2]=0,0,IF(OR(RC[-2]=0,RC[89]=0,RC[2]<=RC[3],RC[3]>=4),"",RC[89]/_ATMPerTFPerYear*(RC[7]^2/_EarthDiam^2)))
 

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2020, 07:07:36 AM »
shoormit fist thanks!

Butit do have a question. Dose your spreadsheet take in to consideration the change in temperature when ice melt?

It does not.
In fact, it can't, because the albedo change is randomized.
In practice, it's not a big problem. When you get the event log entry for it, just redo the calculation and adjust your Aestusium target.

Based on Steve's reply, it is not randomized.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11405.msg133033#msg133033

So at least one calculator considers that :)

Awesome! How did I miss that?
I'll be updating my sheet this morning...
 

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2020, 07:12:34 AM »
Thanks for uploading this; I must have wasted a couple of hours messing with it already. I've got a game with real stars and a sol start, but the query only returns any rows for the moons of Minerva, Sol's planet X. The query labels Minerva SOL-A19, so that seems ok, but SOL-A3 and so on are all missing.

Is there some condition in this query that limits what it returns data for?

The query is limiting results to only show what one race knows.
And it chooses the most recently created player race.

At least, that's the intent, and it works in my games.
If you send me your db I'll dig into it.
 

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 07:31:08 AM »
DISCLAIMER:
This was designed for personal use, so expect it to contain some things that are not self-explanatory.
I'm happy to answer any questions.
And if you find any errors, I would love to know.

I haven't found any errors, but I have made some small improvements. In R2C9 I added a percentage for the terraforming difficulty; it's just another multiplicative factor in R5C9: =R[-3]C*R[-2]C*(1+R[-1]C).

I made two changes to the formula for TFIy. First, I didn't give a score to any world where the final colony cost was greater than 4. Then, I made it show a 0.0 for any world which already has a colony cost of 0, so that the worlds that are finished sort to the top. It's more of a debugging aid than information the user really needs, but on the other hand it does give a nice baseline. The formula is =IF(RC[2]=0,0,IF(OR(RC[-2]=0,RC[89]=0,RC[2]<=RC[3],RC[3]>=4),"",RC[89]/_ATMPerTFPerYear*(RC[7]^2/_EarthDiam^2)))

Very nice, thanks for that.
I was considering playing with terraforming speed turned down on my next playthrough, so I suppose I would have gotten around to adding that as well.

I like those changes to TFIy.
When a blank could mean either "done terraforming" or "can't live here", the column is less useful than it could be.

You might want to consider showing 0.0 for colonies that are done terraforming even if they aren't a 0.0 colony cost.
My current race (which was created randomly) has tight gravity tolerances, which means I have had to colonize quite a few low-grav rocks. They can't get lower than 1.0.
And I've even colonized some places that can't be brought within temperature tolerance (because of low base temps and the 3.0 GHF limit). I'd also want these to be treated the same as the 0.0 col costs in the TFIy column.
Adding all that logic makes the formula a lot harder to parse, so I'd probably add a helper column out to the far right just to check for those conditions.

I'd want this column to treat those LG colonies at 1.0 the same as the normal-grav colonies at 0.0. Makes the formula a bit more convoluted.
 
The following users thanked this post: db48x

Offline Froggiest1982

  • Gold Supporter
  • Vice Admiral
  • *****
  • F
  • Posts: 1331
  • Thanked: 589 times
  • Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    2023 Supporter 2023 Supporter : Donate for 2023
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 08:04:02 AM »
Does anybody know how much water vapour we get into the atmosphere one the ice melts?

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2020, 08:07:43 AM »
Does anybody know how much water vapour we get into the atmosphere one the ice melts?

It should be the equalization pressure for the current total ATM and hydro extent.
From Steve's post:
Code: [Select]
Atmospheric Pressure * (Hydro Extent / 100) * 0.01 atm
 
The following users thanked this post: Froggiest1982

Offline skoormit

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 764
  • Thanked: 310 times
Re: Any terraforming calculator?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2020, 08:09:22 AM »
A note for anyone using my spreadsheet:

The TFIy column does NOT take into account average ship commander bonus.
I mistakenly claimed it did so originally.
I will edit my post accordingly.