v2.0.0 Changes Discussion Thread

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Doesn't "Deep Space Colony" sound better than "Deep Space Population", considering that they don't necessarily have any actual population?
I assume it's "population", because there can possibly be multiple populations on one colony?

Yes, Deep Space Colony is another option, although colony itself suggests colonists. I tend to use colony and population interchangeably, but I'm not completely comfortable with either because , as you mentioned above, they don't necessarily have any actual colonists.

You are correct though that only one population can exist at that location.

[Destragon]

Is there any chance of NPRs making use of DSPs in some limited way or ark ships (not sure if NPRs were already using habitats or not)?

By the way, it's funny how many new things have been added recently that seem useful for a nomadic-style game, while you're currently playing a non-nomadic BSG game. Will there perhaps be a nomadic sequel of the current game, Steve?

Edit:
Another question. Not sure if it's been answered somewhere, but can you mark a DSP (or a normal colony with orbital population) as "source of colonists" like normal colonies and have civilian transport ships take population from the arks to bring them elsewhere?

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Is there any chance of NPRs making use of DSPs in some limited way or ark ships (not sure if NPRs were already using habitats or not)?

By the way, it's funny how many new things have been added recently that seem useful for a nomadic-style game, while you're currently playing a non-nomadic BSG game. Will there perhaps be a nomadic sequel of the current game, Steve?

Edit:
Another question. Not sure if it's been answered somewhere, but can you mark a DSP (or a normal colony with orbital population) as "source of colonists" like normal colonies and have civilian transport ships take population from the arks to bring them elsewhere?

I am re-watching the 2004 BSG series again at the moment, so maybe that is the inspiration

You can't make DSP as a colony source because you can't load from Ark Modules. At some point, I may add the necessary orders to do so, in which case I would change the civilian situation as well.

[Droll]

As the population in Ark modules is awake and functional, there will be some population growth if there is space capacity. This growth will be at an annual rate of 5% x (Space Available / Total Capacity). For example, if an Ark Ship is only carrying 75% of capacity, the annual pop growth will be 1.25%. Available space is likely to be a rare situation, but it could happen after damage and repair, or if an Ark loads a surface population less than its capacity.

Wouldn't it make more sense to also incorporate the species population growth modifier into this calculation?

Also how would an ark handle multiple species being transported, is that even legal?

Finally, how will the game handle the deletion of a DSP, if even possible?

Edit: It would also be nice to be able to manually assign Arks to a specific population, as in a multi-species empire you can end up with worlds with multiple populations.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

As the population in Ark modules is awake and functional, there will be some population growth if there is space capacity. This growth will be at an annual rate of 5% x (Space Available / Total Capacity). For example, if an Ark Ship is only carrying 75% of capacity, the annual pop growth will be 1.25%. Available space is likely to be a rare situation, but it could happen after damage and repair, or if an Ark loads a surface population less than its capacity.

Wouldn't it make more sense to also incorporate the species population growth modifier into this calculation?

Also how would an ark handle multiple species being transported, is that even legal?

Finally, how will the game handle the deletion of a DSP, if even possible?

Edit: It would also be nice to be able to manually assign Arks to a specific population, as in a multi-species empire you can end up with worlds with multiple populations.

The species growth modifier is included. I didn't mention it in the post. Ark can only carry one species, but multiple Arks at the same colony can have different species.

Deletion of a DSP is just like a normal pop deletion - anything in orbit will remain in deep space, but without pop assignment.

Just tell an Ark to move to a specific pop and it will be assigned to that pop.

[King-Salomon]

I can't help it, but the new "Ark module" rules let me think about a (much) smaller POW-module to make POW-camps/ships...

[Migi]

Ark Modules have built-in life support and do not need any agricultural/environmental population (as is the case now with orbital habitats). Therefore, the orbital population does not have to be the same species as the surface population and multiple different species can contribute from orbit.

Given that someone needs to run the life support, I think it would make more sense to have a fixed percentage for ag/env workers. Alternatively you could increase the crew requirement for the module. At the moment all 200000 colonists are serviced by 30 crew. Or you could increase the cost to represent automation like automines (although this prompts the question of why this isn't possible with ground population).

If a colony is conquered, the population in the Ark Modules will not be affected, unless the Ark itself surrenders. The Ark will be unassigned from the conquered colony. The same is true for colony transfers

Given Arks populations are separate for the purpose of planetary surrender, are they treated differently for the purpose of system claims?
On the one hand they could be doing valuable work, but on the other hand they can be relatively easily moved.


A few more questions:
Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?
How quickly can Ark Modules load population?

[nuclearslurpee]

Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?

You can already do this so I don't see why Steve would change it.

[Droll]

Just tell an Ark to move to a specific pop and it will be assigned to that pop.

I completely forgot you could do that.
D'oh!

[Droll]

Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?

You can already do this so I don't see why Steve would change it.

That's cool, so you could also carry the garrison around in the arks. Though I'm guessing NPRs will prefer to nuke Arks instead of invading them outright with boarding pods.

[db48x]

Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?

You can already do this so I don't see why Steve would change it.

That's cool, so you could also carry the garrison around in the arks. Though I'm guessing NPRs will prefer to nuke Arks instead of invading them outright with boarding pods.

Currently crew get treated as a ground–combat formation during boarding, but what about civilians? What level of militancy is required before everyone is carrying a sidearm all of the time, just in case?

[nuclearslurpee]

What level of militancy is required before everyone is carrying a sidearm all of the time, just in case?

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[Migi]

Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?

You can already do this so I don't see why Steve would change it.

That's cool, so you could also carry the garrison around in the arks. Though I'm guessing NPRs will prefer to nuke Arks instead of invading them outright with boarding pods.

Currently crew get treated as a ground–combat formation during boarding, but what about civilians? What level of militancy is required before everyone is carrying a sidearm all of the time, just in case?

Given the size of an Ark, it doesn't seem unreasonable for an all-frills version to include a small garrison of say 1 to 5kT troops.
The new spoilers might make it a necessity.

However Steve seems to want to avoid Arks interacting with the morale system and by extension the ground military. So I thought he might restrict troop presence by blocking troop bays.

I'm not sure if instantly stealing 200k population by capturing a stationary ship with ~30 crew is the sort of thing he intends to be possible, or if he's ok with it to minimise the number of systems which interact with Arks and DSPs.

[Black]

I'm not sure if instantly stealing 200k population by capturing a stationary ship with ~30 crew is the sort of thing he intends to be possible, or if he's ok with it to minimise the number of systems which interact with Arks and DSPs.

Could be interesting with the new spoiler race. But I believe as far as normal NPRs go, they do not use boarding, so this will be issue only in games where player control several races. And I am not even sure if NPRs will use new habitats? I don't think they are programmed to do use habitats in current version.

[alex_brunius]

Given the size of an Ark, it doesn't seem unreasonable for an all-frills version to include a small garrison of say 1 to 5kT troops.
The new spoilers might make it a necessity.

However Steve seems to want to avoid Arks interacting with the morale system and by extension the ground military. So I thought he might restrict troop presence by blocking troop bays.

I'm not sure if instantly stealing 200k population by capturing a stationary ship with ~30 crew is the sort of thing he intends to be possible, or if he's ok with it to minimise the number of systems which interact with Arks and DSPs.

Isn't that rather an issue with an Ark having room for 200 000 population only requring a crew of ~30 if that should be the case though? ( Which is fair to assume if it wasn't change from Orbital Habitats ).

I wouldn't have any issues with Ark modules requiring a substantial higher amounts of crew to keep all systems running, which would make them also interact a bit more realistically in boarding automatically.

One crew for every ~7000 inhabitants in the Orbital Hab/Ark seems very... optimistic