v2.0.0 Changes Discussion Thread

[Vandermeer]

Isn't that rather an issue with an Ark having room for 200 000 population only requring a crew of ~30 if that should be the case though? ( Which is fair to assume if it wasn't change from Orbital Habitats ).
[...]
One crew for every ~7000 inhabitants in the Orbital Hab/Ark seems very... optimistic

They might be functioning like those Japanese robot hotels, and have a 2001 Space Odyssey AI overseeing that everyone only ever watches romance novellas.


Very excited about the Ark introduction here. Back when I started in VB6, I used to think and fail at that Orbital Habitats didn't work exactly the way that the Ark Modules seem to be doing soon.(I shipped them to research places, expecting 7m colonists to get to work...)
Too bad my next game planned wanted a setting where this is not center, but maybe I must postpone.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Given Arks populations are separate for the purpose of planetary surrender, are they treated differently for the purpose of system claims?
On the one hand they could be doing valuable work, but on the other hand they can be relatively easily moved.

A few more questions:
Can you have troop modules on Ark Modules to help them if boarded?
How quickly can Ark Modules load population?

Ark populations are included in system claims.

Arks are just a module, like cryogenic transports, so all normal ship rules apply. You can add troop bays to the same ship, and loading is done just like loading a colony ship with the same capacity, so it will depend on cargo shuttles bays.

[db48x]

I wouldn't have any issues with Ark modules requiring a substantial higher amounts of crew to keep all systems running, which would make them also interact a bit more realistically in boarding automatically.

One crew for every ~7000 inhabitants in the Orbital Hab/Ark seems very... optimistic

200k people is a pretty substantial city. They’re going to need to have a government with bureaucrats and police officers and everything, but none of those people actually need to be crew members. In fact, if your habitat is big enough you don’t need any crew at all.

[Drakale]

Cool addition! Can't wait to do a space bar in the middle of nowhere for my next space pirates campaign. It's really cool that these can also be used to dump off minerals from wreck salvagers in systems with little suitable bodies. Can you use these to disassemble or scrap components from the population menu?

[alex_brunius]

They might be functioning like those Japanese robot hotels, and have a 2001 Space Odyssey AI overseeing that everyone only ever watches romance novellas.

If they were Automated by AI why can't AI automate other ship systems to the same degree?

And tbh I think Arks are alot closer to proper living spaces rather than the "Japanese robot hotel" like Cryo Storages of colony ships...

200k people is a pretty substantial city. They’re going to need to have a government with bureaucrats and police officers and everything, but none of those people actually need to be crew members. In fact, if your habitat is big enough you don’t need any crew at all.

That's not the way I see things. The way I see things "crew" in this case would represent anything needed to keep the "ship"or "station" providing enough space for 200 thousand people in running order pretty much indefinately.

Basically if a cargo ship or other functioning station would provide the same physical space + power and life support as such a "ship" would need... How much crew would be needed for that? Alot more than 30 is IMHO!

[nuclearslurpee]

Can you use these to disassemble or scrap components from the population menu?

Almost certainly not, because the population window can only interact with components at the population, which I don't think can include components loaded on ships. The only way this would work is if you can unload the components at a DSP which I don't think is currently what Steve has implemented.

[doodle_sm]

Are Deep Space Populations able to be tugged? Can they also be moved in orbit?

[Droll]

I like the Arks for the ability to make JP anchorages. I can now "populate" JPs and have an actual base of operations there with all of the associated shenanigans a JP population will bring.

That and solar colonies on empty systems.

[Destragon]

Are Deep Space Populations able to be tugged? Can they also be moved in orbit?

I would assume no, since they are basically just coordinates in space. It sounds like the only DSPs that can orbit are the ones on gas giants, which are probably more like a normal colony, except on a gas giant.

Edit:

I like the Arks for the ability to make JP anchorages. I can now "populate" JPs and have an actual base of operations there with all of the associated shenanigans a JP population will bring.

I wonder, will it actually be possible to have a DSP be on the exact location of a JP, or would it be impossible to have them on the same spot and the DSP would always end up at least like X meters next to it, depending on the precision of your click?

[Droll]

Edit:

I like the Arks for the ability to make JP anchorages. I can now "populate" JPs and have an actual base of operations there with all of the associated shenanigans a JP population will bring.

I wonder, will it actually be possible to have a DSP be on the exact location of a JP, or would it be impossible to have them on the same spot and the DSP would always end up at least like X meters next to it, depending on the precision of your click?

I think you can get exact. You can zoom in so close that the scale shown on the top (right?) corner of the screen will show 0 km as the map scale and place a waypoint on it, and DSPs are just another type of waypoint.

I used this with stars to make what I called "solar hyperspace gates", massive (and expensive) megastructures that I would place right "on top" of a star that I would RP as being able to teleport my fleets between them.

[Destragon]

But even if you place the DSP directly on the jump point, I assume that the DSP and the jump point will still be two separate things. So for example, you probably wouldn't be able to tell a ship to move to the JP and refuel from the tanker that's stationed on the DSP. You'd have to move to the DSP, refuel, then move to the JP and transit, for example.
What I was wondering was if it's possible to have the DSP be on exactly the same spot as the JP, so that a movement order to the JP would have your ship also be at the DSP. The same way to how it probably will be with DSPs on gas giants.

[nuclearslurpee]

But even if you place the DSP directly on the jump point, I assume that the DSP and the jump point will still be two separate things. So for example, you probably wouldn't be able to tell a ship to move to the JP and refuel from the tanker that's stationed on the DSP. You'd have to move to the DSP, refuel, then move to the JP and transit, for example.

This is really a moot point, since to give the refuel order you'd have to order the fleet to move to the tanker anyways.

[ArcWolf]

200k people is a pretty substantial city. They’re going to need to have a government with bureaucrats and police officers and everything, but none of those people actually need to be crew members. In fact, if your habitat is big enough you don’t need any crew at all.

well, in the case of a orbital habitat, "crew" is more like "dedicated maintenance personnel"

[Migi]

200k people is a pretty substantial city. They’re going to need to have a government with bureaucrats and police officers and everything, but none of those people actually need to be crew members. In fact, if your habitat is big enough you don’t need any crew at all.

well, in the case of a orbital habitat, "crew" is more like "dedicated maintenance personnel"

There's no support staff from population, because there is a fixed 0% agri/env workers.

An orbital habitat has the population of (pick one you're familiar with:) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
It's about the population of Samoa, a bit more than Guam or the Isle of White, roughly twice the population of Reykjavik or the Isle of Mann.

The Isle of Man Constabulary has 200 officers, to say nothing of the coast guard, fire fighters etc.

[Droll]

I agree that an ark module's crew requirements should emulate the base 5% agri/env requirement in terms of crew. Even if crew =/= population and also the conscript option allows you to effectively create "new" crew. It would also be a decent approximation of the civilian population fighting back against invaders/boarders.