Carrier Task Force - First time

[Cobaia (OP)]

Hello,

This is my first carrier task force design.   Would appreciate some feedback! Thank you in advance. 

CARRIER x1

Code: [Select]

Imperious class Carrier      40.974 tons       948 Crew       9.744,9 BP       TCS 819    TH 720    EM 0
3660 km/s      Armour 8-105       Shields 0-0       HTK 369      Sensors 70/70/0/0      DCR 71      PPV 66,62
Maint Life 6,59 Years     MSP 11.580    AFR 263%    IFR 3,7%    1YR 461    5YR 6.916    Max Repair 547,4 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 6.000 tons     Magazine 802    Cryogenic Berths 1.000   
Captain    Control Rating 6   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 120    Morale Check Required   

Military Internal Fusion Drive  EP500,00 (6)    Power 3000    Fuel Use 37,06%    Signature 120,00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 5.000.000 Litres    Range 59,3 billion km (187 days at full power)

Twin Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 30cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 384.000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 48-8     RM 60.000 km    ROF 30       
Phalanx CIWS (10x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25.000 km/s     ROF 5       
Twin Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Gauss Cannon R300-8,00 Turret (2x6)    Range 30.000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30.000 km    ROF 5       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Beam Fire Control R384-TS15000 (2)     Max Range: 384.000 km   TS: 15.000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor R48 (1)     Total Power Output 48,1    Exp 5%

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries AMM Missile Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
AMM Fire Control FC92-R1 (2)     Range 92,1m km    Resolution 1
Sea Sparrow AMM 1MSP (100)    Speed: 26.400 km/s    End: 15,2m     Range: 24m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 299/179/89
Martel ASM (702)    Speed: 24.600 km/s    End: 16,8m     Range: 24,8m km    WH: 3    Size: 1    TH: 180/108/54

Active Search Sensor I (1)     GPS 11200     Range 103,7m km    Resolution 100
Tracker EM Sensor EM5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km
Seeker Thermal Sensor TH5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19,4m km

Strike Group
40x Incepteris Fighter   Speed: 8725 km/s    Size: 2,87



FIGTHER x40 per Carrier

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Incepteris class Fighter      144 tons       3 Crew       40,6 BP       TCS 3    TH 25    EM 0
8725 km/s      Armour 2-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 4,5
Maint Life 21,81 Years     MSP 17    AFR 2%    IFR 0,0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 15 MSP
Magazine 4   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Fighter Internal Fusion Drive  EP25,00 (1)    Power 25    Fuel Use 165,73%    Signature 25    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 2.000 Litres    Range 1,5 billion km (48 hours at full power)

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Gauss Cannon R300-8,00 (1x3)    Range 30.000km     TS: 8.725 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 8,00%     RM 30.000 km    ROF 5       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Fighter Beam Fire Control R48-TS4000 (1)     Max Range: 48.000 km   TS: 4.000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Size 1 Box Launcher (4)     Missile Size: 1    Hangar Reload 50 minutes    MF Reload 8 hours
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Figther Missile Fire Control FC42-R100 (1)     Range 42,2m km    Resolution 100
Martel ASM (4)    Speed: 24.600 km/s    End: 16,8m     Range: 24,8m km    WH: 3    Size: 1    TH: 180/108/54


FRIGATE x10

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Harbringer class Frigate      4.512 tons       124 Crew       1.648,3 BP       TCS 90    TH 120    EM 0
5541 km/s      Armour 8-24       Shields 0-0       HTK 51      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 29,9
Maint Life 2,44 Years     MSP 685    AFR 54%    IFR 0,8%    1YR 159    5YR 2.378    Max Repair 500 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military Internal Fusion Drive  EP500,00 (1)    Power 500    Fuel Use 37,06%    Signature 120,00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500.000 Litres    Range 53,8 billion km (112 days at full power)

Twin Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 30cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 384.000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 48-8     RM 60.000 km    ROF 30       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Beam Fire Control R384-TS15000 (1)     Max Range: 384.000 km   TS: 15.000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor R48 (1)     Total Power Output 48,1    Exp 5%



DESTROYER x4

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Guardian class Destroyer      14.945 tons       447 Crew       4.492 BP       TCS 299    TH 360    EM 0
5018 km/s      Armour 9-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 101      Sensors 70/70/0/0      DCR 33      PPV 46
Maint Life 5,14 Years     MSP 4.442    AFR 137%    IFR 1,9%    1YR 280    5YR 4.199    Max Repair 547,4 MSP
Magazine 470   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military Internal Fusion Drive  EP500,00 (3)    Power 1500    Fuel Use 37,06%    Signature 120,00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1.250.000 Litres    Range 40,6 billion km (93 days at full power)

Phalanx CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25.000 km/s     ROF 5       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries AMM Missile Launcher (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ASM Missile Launcher (4)     Missile Size: 9    Rate of Fire 25
AMM Fire Control FC92-R1 (2)     Range 92,1m km    Resolution 1
ASM Fire Control FC46-R100 (1)     Range 46,4m km    Resolution 100
Sea Sparrow AMM 1MSP (100)    Speed: 26.400 km/s    End: 15,2m     Range: 24m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 299/179/89
Harpoon ASM 9MSP  (41)    Speed: 15.511 km/s    End: 20,3m     Range: 18,9m km    WH: 25    Size: 9    TH: 113/68/34

Active Search Sensor I (1)     GPS 11200     Range 103,7m km    Resolution 100
Seeker Thermal Sensor TH5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km
Tracker EM Sensor EM5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km



CRUISER x2

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Iron Duke class Cruiser      26.083 tons       836 Crew       6.107,7 BP       TCS 522    TH 480    EM 0
3834 km/s      Armour 8-78       Shields 0-0       HTK 195      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 43      PPV 154
Maint Life 5,03 Years     MSP 5.366    AFR 237%    IFR 3,3%    1YR 354    5YR 5.309    Max Repair 547,4 MSP
Magazine 1.218   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military Internal Fusion Drive  EP500,00 (4)    Power 2000    Fuel Use 37,06%    Signature 120,00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 3.000.000 Litres    Range 55,9 billion km (168 days at full power)

Phalanx CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25.000 km/s     ROF 5       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ASM Missile Launcher (16)     Missile Size: 9    Rate of Fire 25
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries AMM Missile Launcher (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
AMM Fire Control FC92-R1 (2)     Range 92,1m km    Resolution 1
ASM Fire Control FC46-R100 (4)     Range 46,4m km    Resolution 100
Sea Sparrow AMM 1MSP (300)    Speed: 26.400 km/s    End: 15,2m     Range: 24m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 299/179/89
Harpoon ASM 9MSP  (102)    Speed: 15.511 km/s    End: 20,3m     Range: 18,9m km    WH: 25    Size: 9    TH: 113/68/34



HEAVY CRUISER x1

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Warrior Knight class Heavy Cruiser      29.410 tons       833 Crew       7.722,3 BP       TCS 588    TH 480    EM 0
3400 km/s      Armour 12-84       Shields 0-0       HTK 291      Sensors 70/70/0/0      DCR 48      PPV 170,6
Maint Life 5,53 Years     MSP 8.595    AFR 247%    IFR 3,4%    1YR 473    5YR 7.099    Max Repair 500 MSP
Magazine 468   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military Internal Fusion Drive  EP500,00 (4)    Power 2000    Fuel Use 37,06%    Signature 120,00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 2.500.000 Litres    Range 41,3 billion km (140 days at full power)

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 45,0cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 384.000km     TS: 8.000 km/s     Power 53-4     RM 60.000 km    ROF 70       
Twin Mitsubishi Heavy Industries 30cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (4x2)    Range 384.000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 48-8     RM 60.000 km    ROF 30       
Phalanx CIWS (10x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25.000 km/s     ROF 5       
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Beam Fire Control R384-TS15000 (2)     Max Range: 384.000 km   TS: 15.000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor R53 (1)     Total Power Output 53,3    Exp 5%
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor R48 (1)     Total Power Output 48,1    Exp 5%

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries ASM Missile Launcher (4)     Missile Size: 9    Rate of Fire 25
ASM Fire Control FC46-R100 (1)     Range 46,4m km    Resolution 100
Harpoon ASM 9MSP  (52)    Speed: 15.511 km/s    End: 20,3m     Range: 18,9m km    WH: 25    Size: 9    TH: 113/68/34

Active Search Sensor I (1)     GPS 11200     Range 103,7m km    Resolution 100
Seeker Thermal Sensor TH5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km
Tracker EM Sensor EM5-70 (1)     Sensitivity 70     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  66,1m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19,4m km

[prophetical]

Do you want them to have different speeds? As in, do they have different tasks that might require ships like the frigate to move away from the carrier? Otherwise you are wasting space on each ship if it can only move as slow as the slowest one in the fleet.   

Edit: I don't see a jump drive on anything

[Cobaia (OP)]

Do you want them to have different speeds? As in, do they have different tasks that might require ships like the frigate to move away from the carrier? Otherwise you are wasting space on each ship if it can only move as slow as the slowest one in the fleet.   

Edit: I don't see a jump drive on anything

Hello,

The different speeds is for the separation of the task force in combat, at least that's my reasoning.  Let's say I detected hostile activity, I can detach the Destroyers and the Frigates.  But I see how that can be improved.  Will take that into consideration on my next iteration.

Regarding the Jump Drive.  I use JSS I don't see the need to have Jump Drives.  When I go Exploring a new system I send in the Survey Ships first followed by the JSS and the Carrier Task Force.  I don't see the purpose of having the Jump Drive, maybe I'm missing something.

[sneer]

Hi
there could be more comment but I will stick to what I see as important
1. ciws and lots ciws are not a way to go - this is something you rather stick on important civilians or ships designed to operate solo
ciws only provide anti missile coverage to its own ship - what you need is common antimissile shield for the taskforce , based depending on tech or preferences on turreted gausses , small antimissiles , lots of cheap railguns or turreted small lasers
ciws on warships in such task force is lost tonnage
2. small tonnage diffrence between 2 cruiser and 1 heavy cruisers - better think abou 3 universal ships - easier to set shipyards around this task- easier to upgrade in the future
3. if it is designed as task force it is good to design same speed for ships, huge engines doesn't scale well but this is achievable, frigates and destroyers unless set aside TF will make no use of better speed
4. 50 bn range is a bit too high and speeds for internal fusion are very low - too efficient engines used on warships
speed is useful and it is in most cases better to refuel often from tankers
5.dual weaponery on fighters is a no go , use single weapon designs - go for 2 classes if needed
your fighter goes 8000 km/s - you can have warship with inferior propulsion tech running same speed as your fighter what means it is at least 5-6 times too slow ( and probably even much more as I did not design internal fusion fighter for a long time )
6. 8 armor on 4.5 kt frigate seems high but maybe there is purpose- these are overgrown FACs - I assume they will be detached from TF for other tasks ( JG transit check , finishing crippled etc )
7. destroyers have amm capability but no sensor supporting it, unless I missed it only 2 cruisers have res 1 sensors what means after you loose their sensors you are without anti missile capability
8. if frigates were faster ! no need for turret for heavy lasers which is again less tonnage needed
9. 6k hanger on 40k carrier is far too small , why heavy beam weaponary ?

[Cobaia (OP)]

Hello,

Thanks! Your feedback points make sense and I know see how I can improve on the designs.

Some thought processes on the following:

3.  if it is designed as task force it is good to design same speed for ships, huge engines doesn't scale well but this is achievable, frigates and destroyers unless set aside TF will make no use of better speed

That was my thought on having 2 scale speeds 5k for the DD and FF so they can go their on way.  The rest I just eye balled to try and achieve similar speed

4.  50 bn range is a bit too high and speeds for internal fusion are very low - too efficient engines used on warships

I have 2 Tankers attached to the fleet, my lack of combat experience made me target the 40b - 50b range.  In your opinion what would be the target range?

7.  destroyers have amm capability but no sensor supporting it, unless I missed it only 2 cruisers have res 1 sensors what means after you loose their sensors you are without anti missile capability

They do have an AMM FC I tried to make the Search and Passive sensors redundant in the heavier ships.  Will check that.

 

9.  6k hanger on 40k carrier is far too small , why heavy beam weaponary ?

My thought was to split the TF into 2 Strike Groups one with the FF and the DD another with the CAs, that would leave the CV alone.  But in retrospective I could get more Fighters in and get a more effective CV.


Thank you!

[Pedroig]

In general the entire point of a CTF is to provide supporting overlapping fire, especially for PD.  It is ok to have a couple of "scout" attachments to the CTF, but overall the Carrier and its core defence of 8-12 ships should be treated as a singular unit.

[sneer]

personal point of view ( but after many vb6 aurora games )
1.as for range of ships
usually 30+ bn range is fine
some go lower to 15-20 which I personally see as too low as sometimes there is no need of setting tankers ( like rapid defence operations near bases )
2 as for speed of ships - my magneto plasma ships ( earlier tech) goes 6500-7500 - they are beam heavy and beam fleet need to be fast
I use 1x modifier for military ships x0.3 for civilian engines and max for fighters /facs /missiles ,sometimes when circumstances force it is 1,25x multiplier for beam warships - when facing advanced races and while on defense
3. in general - If you go past certain tonnage ( 10000+ ) I usually find that sensors must match weapons, especially for R1 active sensors ( fire control is uselless without active sensor )
it can be small but it is needed - in terms of tonnage and costs it is far lower than ciws which are not necessary in the design
4. with good layered antimissile defence you can think about lowering amount of armor ( my rule of thumb is 4 layers per every 10000 tonnage)

in 2013 I put same topic as You presenting my inertial fusion carrier TF  and got really good advices  however this is like 2 leves above your tech so numbers needs to be scaled down
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=6539.msg66845#msg66845


one more remark
missles needs redesign
asm are too slow ( you want max engine multiplier for missles ) size of engine is up to You and depends on wheather you want 1st strike capability or close range overwhelming salvo )
my size 6 asm have 2 size engines 0.5-1 fuel 0.5 agility and rest for warhead , sometimes I add ecm for survivability
 

[macks]

You also need to take into account standardizing the % of your ship's tonnage that is engine, like my current playthrough I use 25% of tonnage in a military ship for engines and the boost is 1. 5x for all of them.  That's the easiest way to make sure all different sizes of ships in your fleet go the same speed.

[Cobaia (OP)]

Yep I'm getting the picture now.  I think this is why you need to share the designs so you can discuss and learn.

in 2013 I put same topic as You presenting my inertial fusion carrier TF  and got really good advices  however this is like 2 leves above your tech so numbers needs to be scaled down
hxxp: aurora2. pentarch. org/index. php?topic=6539. msg66845#msg66845

Thank you! This gave me a benchmark into future designs!

[Droll]

Yep I'm getting the picture now.  I think this is why you need to share the designs so you can discuss and learn.

in 2013 I put same topic as You presenting my inertial fusion carrier TF  and got really good advices  however this is like 2 leves above your tech so numbers needs to be scaled down
hxxp: aurora2. pentarch. org/index. php?topic=6539. msg66845#msg66845

Thank you! This gave me a benchmark into future designs!

For reference I use a 16k hangar 40k carrier designed for 40 400 ton fighters. If your fighters have missiles when calculating how much magazine you want consider the fuel as well. How many full sorties do you need the strike group to do without resupply from a collier/tanker?

In C# for beam ships in particular the 1% fail rate on weapons becomes a substantial draw on MSP as well.

[Father Tim]

I don't know why your carrier has the guns of a battleship (well, half of one) and 2,000 tons of empty hangar space, but both things historically happened so it's reasonable.

[Agraelgrimm]

I think that your carrier needs better AMM defense.  4 box launchers aint going to cut it.  I would suggest about 10 or 20.
Sure you can depend on the escort for that protection, but you will lose ships and the carrier needs to be able to defend itself in the worst case scenario.  After all, your entire TF goes to protect it. 
You could also lose the laser cannons.  Unless it is for RP flavor, you wont be needing it.  The carrier's main weapon is the fighters/FACS. 
And to finish, if you really want your carrier to have offensive power, i would suggest missile launchers.  You wont need much of them, but 2 fire controls for two groups of 4-6 launchers would be good. 

PS: If you really want point defense, gauss cannons are the way to go.  They are cheap, you can put them in small turrets and they wont cost a reactor and as far as i know, they wont have the 1% fail rate.  (I can be wrong on this one)

[Jorgen_CAB]

It is just fine to put beam weapons on a carrier... just call it a Battle Carrier if that makes things easier for you...

It really have to do with your general doctrines. In many of my play-throughs I don't have any dedicated beam ships at all and instead expect EVERY ship to carry some Spinal and complimentary beam weapon for self defence. This actually is very effective as you spread them out on more ships and thus you gain way more HTK for the enemy too go through to eliminate you at beam combat range. It also give you option to not use missiles when you have overwhelming force against the enemy, it also may dissuade an enemy to close into beam combat in many scenarios too.

I also look at missiles ships to always fulfil both an ASM/AMM role... you already have the magazine so no point in not being able to choose how much offensive versus defensive ammunition you take on any mission, you even can change from say a defensive stance to offensive stance with just reloading the ship from a collier close by. Options is very powerful.

In terms of speed differences there can be many ways that speed can be used in the game and not every ship need to be super fast, some ships might be OK to be slower or faster. In general my escorting destroyers are slightly faster than my main cruiser and carriers as they are suppose to be able to detach an chase after a retreating opponent or act independently as scouts. Frigates are slower as their main job is to escort the supply/collier and tankers of the fleet and don't need the speed of the main combat ships.

Sensor coverage can also be done with small scouting craft quite effectively in C#... I would put decent sensors on the ships but with missile fire-controls that shoot a fair bit longer. I would then use boat bays on the escorts to deploy a flora of scouts crafts that can have a large variety passive and active sensor devices to support the fleet. Smaller sensors are allot more effective in C#.

[Michael Sandy]

Some rules of thumb for engine/fuel designs.

For most purposes, a ratio of 5 HS engine to 2 HS fuel gives maximum range.  The only ships that should have a large fuel ratio are carriers and tankers.  Short endurance ships/fighters optimized for performance, a 5:1 engine to fuel ratio is pretty good.  If you have too small a fuel tank, then you probably had to cut back on engine power in order to have the range you wanted.  You are better off with the higher power engine and more fuel consumption.

So your fighters with the 2,000 liter tanks, if you had a 10,000 liter tank, and much higher boost, you would be faster, only slightly bigger, and still have the range you want.

With regards to carrier operations in general, several games ago I decided that while my eventual goal was strikefighters, I wanted to make use of fighters long before I developed box launchers in order for it to be a natural evolution.  I would be increasing my fighter factories all along, not spiking them once I got the critical technologies.  So I started by developing fighter scouts of various kinds that would be incorporated into my fleets.

A full scout group would include a fighter with res 1 sensors, a fighter with res 100 sensors (or whatever res the known enemy combatants tended to be) an EM variant and a TH variant, as well as some expendable smaller scouts.  So up to 2000 HS or so.  Obviously, a solo carrier would have to strip that down a bit, but a multi-carrier group might only have a little over one full scout group.

I built scouts differently from combat fighters.  About 50% engine instead of 40%, about 15-20% fuel, 15-20% for the sensor, and the rest is crew endurance and engineering to taste, as they also can do picket duty.  So they are faster and longer ranged than the combat fighters, at the expense of having a small payload ratio, (their sensor).

In VB6, you also wanted fighter tankers, but that really isn't an option in C#, as you can't refuel on the fly with anything small enough to avoid detection.  This means you can't get away with really short ranges on your fighters in C# as you can't as easily extend their ranges with tankers.

Missile fighters, you either want to be able to outrange enemy missiles entirely, or have integrated point defense that makes it less economical for the enemy to engage them with AMMs.  So you can go either minimum cross section, and launch from outside of known enemy res 1 sensors, and be out of range of res 10 sensor and fire controls, or go a bit bigger, with a substantially larger fire control, and launch longer ranged missiles, and hope to be out of range of res 10 stuff because of the larger range.  So if you are going the small fighter route, you absolute have to specialize.  I appreciate the RP of having a minimal sized beam weapon for fighter dog fighting, and having beam fighters makes it a LOT cheaper to finish off cripples and unarmed ships without expending ammo.

This gets into what sorts of ranges you want on your strikefighters in general.  Ideally, you want to be able to strike habitable planets by launching from the Jump Point.  This may not always be possible, but gives you a good estimate of what kinds of ranges you will need.  Another consideration is that as tech level increases, the range your carrier has to launch from to be out of detection and targeting range changes too.  In VB6, antiship sensors could quickly get into the billions of KM of range.  Not so much in C#.  Which, again, means you want sensors with your strike force.

As you get more experienced, you will want to consider what the strategic aim of your fighters are.  It is VERY expensive logistically to try and kill an entire enemy fleet just with missiles.  But you could use fighters to determine where the enemy fleet is, and attack where they AREN'T, forcing them to come away from their fortifications and resupply.  For that mission profile you want a lot more range and endurance and independent sensor capacity.  Fighters would also be useful if you can identify enemy glass cannon designs, and take them out before they can engage your fleet.

[Michael Sandy]

I would like it if the AI had more mixed designs.  As is, you can run their missile ships out of ammo, then use short ranged missiles to nuke whatever long ranged beam ships they have, and politely kite the survivors to death with your superior beam ships.  If they had a few long ranged beams on each of their missile ships, it would be a LOT harder to kite them to death.

Are the cryo for RP, or do they help in C#?

Also, is there an advantage in having larger carriers in C# because they can afford the space for refueling and ordnance handling systems?