Author Topic: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition  (Read 345421 times)

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Offline smoelf

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2235 on: October 23, 2021, 03:16:09 AM »
How do you assess the effectiveness of ground support fighters? I'm currently in a ground war and have assigned ground support fighters to formations with FFD components, but they don't seem to do anything but get blown up by AA. There are events saying they got hit by AA, but I cannot see any events stating that they destroyed any enemy forces nor see it on the ships themselves.

This may be a dumb question, but are your GSFs armed with fighter pod bays and are the bays loaded with suitable pods? A regular old laser cannon will not work for ground support missions.

They are. What strikes me as odd is that even though the AA is to dense to make an impact, I feel like there should be an event describing to-hit chances or something like that.

Off-Topic: show
Roc AC class Ground Support Fighter      500 tons       9 Crew       138.4 BP       TCS 10    TH 95    EM 0
9517 km/s      Armour 3-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3.4
Maint Life 2.12 Years     MSP 17    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 5    5YR 76    Max Repair 47.5 MSP
Magazine 68   
Trailer    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 2 months    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP95.00 (1)    Power 95    Fuel Use 472.07%    Signature 95    Explosion 19%
Fuel Capacity 25,000 Litres    Range 1.91 billion km (55 hours at full power)

Size 34 Fighter Pod Bay (2)     Pod Size: 34    Hangar Reload 291 minutes    MF Reload 48 hours
Abhogravel Kinetics Wyvern Autocannon Pod (2)    Armour Penetration: 61     Damage: 20     Shots: 3

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Ground Support Fighter for auto-assignment purposes
 

Offline kilo

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2236 on: October 23, 2021, 06:00:50 AM »
The wiki says you need a missile fire control.

Source:
 
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Offline smoelf

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2237 on: October 23, 2021, 09:55:20 AM »
The wiki says you need a missile fire control.

Source:


Thanks, it definitely doesn't help if they can't fire  :)
But there still seems to be an issue even after adding the MFC. Fortunately, I had saved the game just before the battle started, so I decided to run it five times without ground support and three times with assigned ground support fighters. There was no discernable difference in duration of combat or losses suffered and no events relating to the fighters.

But I did also get an error message when designing the pods, so perhaps I just did something wrong when making them, if others have made it work?

Off-Topic: show
Roc AC class Ground Support Fighter      500 tons       9 Crew       140 BP       TCS 10    TH 95    EM 0
9517 km/s      Armour 3-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3.4
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 17    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 5    5YR 77    Max Repair 47.5 MSP
Magazine 68   
Trailer    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 2 months    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP95.00 (1)    Power 95    Fuel Use 472.07%    Signature 95    Explosion 19%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 1.53 billion km (44 hours at full power)

Size 34 Fighter Pod Bay (2)     Pod Size: 34    Hangar Reload 291 minutes    MF Reload 48 hours
Ground Combat Fire Control (1)     Range 6.1m km    Resolution 1
Abhogravel Kinetics Wyvern Autocannon Pod (2)    Armour Penetration: 61     Damage: 20     Shots: 3

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Ground Support Fighter for auto-assignment purposes


EDIT: I'm dumb. I needed to assign the pods and pod bays to the MFC and now it works. It also significantly reduced the duration of the battle and loss of ground troops, so it seems like it is actually worth - at least on planets without excessive AA.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 12:15:56 PM by smoelf »
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2238 on: October 23, 2021, 11:46:48 PM »
EDIT: I'm dumb. I needed to assign the pods and pod bays to the MFC and now it works. It also significantly reduced the duration of the battle and loss of ground troops, so it seems like it is actually worth - at least on planets without excessive AA.

Ah, yes, the same "bug" that afflicts me every time I use buoy droppers on my survey ships... agh!  :P
 
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Offline Droll

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2239 on: October 24, 2021, 10:30:43 AM »
EDIT: I'm dumb. I needed to assign the pods and pod bays to the MFC and now it works. It also significantly reduced the duration of the battle and loss of ground troops, so it seems like it is actually worth - at least on planets without excessive AA.

How many CAS total were you using. I only bothered with 60 max because of the micro burden so that may be part of my problems with bad CAS performance.
 

Offline smoelf

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2240 on: October 24, 2021, 10:53:36 AM »
EDIT: I'm dumb. I needed to assign the pods and pod bays to the MFC and now it works. It also significantly reduced the duration of the battle and loss of ground troops, so it seems like it is actually worth - at least on planets without excessive AA.

How many CAS total were you using. I only bothered with 60 max because of the micro burden so that may be part of my problems with bad CAS performance.

I actually used a total of 100 fighters. 50 with autocannon and 50 with bombardment (total of 50.000 tons). I actually don't think the micro was too much, but I did need to open a second ground force window as you can see in the screenshot above. The plan was to use a single formation as the 'FFD' formation, so I had calculated ahead of time, that I would need to assign around 8 or so fighters to each of those formations to divide them properly (3 FFD's per formation, for redundancy) and then I just went through them and counted 8 fighters per formation.

Regarding efficiency:
Since it was against Rahkas I'm spoilering this part.
I used a total of 360.000 tons of troops and the battle started on March 12th. For most of the runs without fighters, the battle lasted until somewhere between March 27th or 30th and I lost around 90.000-100.000 tons of troops each time. With the ground support working properly, the battle lasted until March 21st and I lost around 75.000 tons of troops, but I also lost 17 fighters, so 8.500 tons. It seems a fair trade to lose 8.500 tons of fighters in order to lose 20-25.000 fewer tons of ground forces. In addition, I can see that the fighters destroyd around 25.000 tons of enemy ground forces, so half their own weight. I don't have data for individual formations, but I did take a quick look at the relevant officers and most were far below half. A few destroyed almost double their formation size, but most were around 800-1.300 per 5.000 tons formation.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I went through the list of 'units destroyed' in the diplomacy window and guestimated the total size of enemy forces. I calculated around 75.000 tons of Rahkas troops (of which 8.700 tons were AA). This means my ground support fighters destroyed a third of the enemy forces.


This probably goes beyond a 'quick questions'-thread, so I might start a separate thread at some point. It would be interesting to test, what effect 50.000 tons of extra ground forces would have done instead of the fighters.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 11:43:54 AM by smoelf »
 

Offline Tavik Toth

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2241 on: October 24, 2021, 11:54:09 AM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2242 on: October 24, 2021, 12:35:26 PM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.

I'm fairly certain that these and other ruins-only weapons are not implemented in C#, and I'm really not sure you're even supposed to be able to obtain them normally.
 

Offline Tavik Toth

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2243 on: October 24, 2021, 12:37:54 PM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.

I'm fairly certain that these and other ruins-only weapons are not implemented in C#, and I'm really not sure you're even supposed to be able to obtain them normally.

Ah. I had added the tech to my race my editing the database. Guess I'll revert that change.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2244 on: October 24, 2021, 02:10:24 PM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.

I'm fairly certain that these and other ruins-only weapons are not implemented in C#, and I'm really not sure you're even supposed to be able to obtain them normally.

I recall getting advanced railguns organically once and they worked but I can't recall if this was VB6 or C#.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2245 on: October 24, 2021, 02:17:51 PM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.

I'm fairly certain that these and other ruins-only weapons are not implemented in C#, and I'm really not sure you're even supposed to be able to obtain them normally.

Ah. I had added the tech to my race my editing the database. Guess I'll revert that change.

With even more messing around with the DB you can get them to work properly. It's more involved for railguns since shot count is hardcoded to 4 and you need to fix the 5-shot property manually for every advanced railgun based weapon but for other weapons it can be quite simple. You just make the typeID of the advanced weapon the same as it's base version's typeID which makes the game pretend they are a normal version.

You can use it to make some interesting weapon variants like weak multi-shot lasers, microwave repeaters, meson machineguns and whatever else your imagination conjures up.

I'm not going to give you a step by step tutorial on how to do this though so back up your save and mess around the DB like I did if you're willing.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 07:27:02 PM by Droll »
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2246 on: October 25, 2021, 07:18:12 PM »
How do I design an advanced laser weapon once I've obtained the tech? Despite having the tech, I can't design any.

I'm fairly certain that these and other ruins-only weapons are not implemented in C#, and I'm really not sure you're even supposed to be able to obtain them normally.

I recall getting advanced railguns organically once and they worked but I can't recall if this was VB6 or C#.
That was VB6.

Also, all of these posts should be in the Spoilers forum.
 

Offline Agraelgrimm

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2247 on: October 26, 2021, 10:03:23 PM »
How do i delete a ship that is obsolete? Do i just press delete on the Fleet Organization Menu or is there something more specific? And do i lose all the fuel, ammo, personnel and officers if i do that?
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2248 on: October 26, 2021, 10:05:10 PM »
Use a shipyard with a free slipway to scrap the ship. You get fuel, supplies and missiles back. Crew gets sent to the crew pool and officers are unassigned. You also get partial minerals back.
 
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Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #2249 on: October 28, 2021, 01:27:32 PM »
When creating a ground unit formation template, there is a button to change the default rank required for that formation template. When clicked it brings up a window with a dropdown selection for what rank you want but it also has an unlabeled checkbox. My question is what does the checkbox do?