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VB6 Aurora > Advanced Tactical Command Academy
Potential Advantages of Old Tech Engines?
xenoscepter:
So, perhaps it is just me and how I design my ships, but I've noticed something interesting about older engines.
The fact of the matter is, that the lower the technology of the engine; the less fuel it uses per HS.
Now; I'll preamble by saying I get that there is a MASSIVE discrepancy between the output of higher tech engines and lower tech ones, but that's not my point here.
I've finally sat down and begun to really learn the game, and this particular fact stuck out to me: You only need to go so fast to get so far when you are performing mundane tasks.
So, when considering HS with regards to deployment time, module weight and fuel storage; I noticed that Old Tech engines, Nuclear Pulse in particular, are simply "fast enough" for most mundane things like colony ships, fuel tankers, freighters, supply ships, shuttles, salvage craft, survey ships and even troop transports or picket ships. (although those last two are more a taste thing, but it's both doable AND useful)
So, what do you all think? I think Conventional Engines can even be useful in this way for really light craft. (Think a thousand tons or so)
It seems to me like a good weight saving measure since these ships don't need to go faster than "fast enough"
Jorgen_CAB:
--- Quote from: xenoscepter on March 11, 2019, 06:09:59 PM ---So, perhaps it is just me and how I design my ships, but I've noticed something interesting about older engines.
The fact of the matter is, that the lower the technology of the engine; the less fuel it uses per HS.
Now; I'll preamble by saying I get that there is a MASSIVE discrepancy between the output of higher tech engines and lower tech ones, but that's not my point here.
I've finally sat down and begun to really learn the game, and this particular fact stuck out to me: You only need to go so fast to get so far when you are performing mundane tasks.
So, when considering HS with regards to deployment time, module weight and fuel storage; I noticed that Old Tech engines, Nuclear Pulse in particular, are simply "fast enough" for most mundane things like colony ships, fuel tankers, freighters, supply ships, shuttles, salvage craft, survey ships and even troop transports or picket ships. (although those last two are more a taste thing, but it's both doable AND useful)
So, what do you all think? I think Conventional Engines can even be useful in this way for really light craft. (Think a thousand tons or so)
It seems to me like a good weight saving measure since these ships don't need to go faster than "fast enough"
--- End quote ---
That is unfortunately not how it works. The engine use fuel per hour consumption which then translates to fuel used per km traversed. So an older engine with a worse fuel efficiency will use more fuel per distance traveled.
They might use less fuel per hour but they also is much slower so they still will use more fuel per distance traveled versus a faster engine with better fuel efficiency.
So... if you reduce the speed on a ship you don't reduce the fuel use when you count the distance traveled with a ship.
xenoscepter:
That's not how I meant it either.
You only need to go so far, so fast with ships that are doing certain tasks. Thus the absolute hull space needed for say 6 months of travel time is fixed. To put it another way, if I only have to go 3 million kilometers and how long it takes me to get there is a non-issue, then an absolute value exists with regards to how much Hull Space (or tonnage) I need to get there.
Or, put another way; if I just need to pop over to Venus, I only need X amount of speed in km/s to catch up and X amount of fuel to make the trip; let's say enough for a single round trip. Since both values for that trip to Venus are fixed values which don't need to be exceeded, my ship with a Nuclear Pulse Engine can make that speed for less fuel than my Magneto-Plasma version, because the Magneto-Plasma eats more fuel per Hull Space, requiring more Hull Space for fuel to create an amount of speed that is wasted on my little put-put over to Venus.
Basically, if I only need X speed and Y distance, where X and Y are fixed values which do not need to be exceeded, I could use Nuclear-Pulse, Ion or whatever "lower tech" engine in place of a higher tech one to save Hull Space since I don't need the speed of a better engine, nor do I need the range which it would afford me by the merit of said higher speed.
Yes, I know the argument can be made that a higher tech engine gives more of X and Y for less Hull Space by virtue of said speed, but a Cargo Module still weighs a fixed amount, as do Sorium Harvesters, Asteroid Miners, Salvage Modules, Jump Gate construction modules and so on and so forth. Which brings me to the second part of my OP, where the Hull Space itself has a certain fixed value by merit of it's role. A Sorium Harvester will always weigh AT LEAST as much as one Sorium Module; a Cargo Freighter will always weigh as much as at least one Small Cargo Module; etc.
So, with Engine Power Boost tech, and fuel consumption tech, as well as the lower tech engines being less fuel hungry per HS; I posit that it is useful to use lower tech engines for ships that have:
A - A role which demands a certain minimum tonnage which is non-negotiable. I.E. Cargo Modules, Cryo modules and others that don't benefit from size-reductions through tech like weapons, power plants, FCS, Sensors etc as being mandatory to accomplish their mission.
B - Only need to go a certain distance, presumably inter-system, but Jump Drive enabled is valid: so long as the ship is only operating within a certain number of km or time period.
C - Doesn't need to be there under a time crunch. One month or three doesn't REALLY matter for a Colony Ship. Although faster could be better, it doesn't HAVE to go faster to get the job done.
Just for some clarity, I was in the laundro-mat when composing the first piece.
So, in light of this, does my assumption have any merits to it at all?
Jorgen_CAB:
No... but that is not how it work.
If you have an engine of say size 50 that is Nuclear Pulse like this one with a fuel consumption of 0.7...
--- Code: ---Engine Power: 200 Fuel Use Per Hour: 12.38 Litres
Fuel Consumption per Engine Power Hour: 0.062 Litres
Engine Size: 50 HS Engine HTK: 25
Thermal Signature: 200 Exp Chance: 5
Cost: 50 Crew: 25
Materials Required: 50x Gallicite
Commercial Engine
--- End code ---
Then I get a new Ion Engine size 50 with a fuel consumption of 0.6...
--- Code: ---Engine Power: 300 Fuel Use Per Hour: 15.9 Litres
Fuel Consumption per Engine Power Hour: 0.053 Litres
Engine Size: 50 HS Engine HTK: 25
Thermal Signature: 300 Exp Chance: 5
Cost: 75 Crew: 25
Materials Required: 75x Gallicite
Commercial Engine
--- End code ---
The Ion Engine will carry the same tonnage of load for less fuel, in addition to that it will also do it faster... the speed at which it carries the cargo does not matter since reducing the speed will never decrease the fuel spent over the same distance. So if the Ion Engine above had the same fuel consumption ratio at 0.7 it would use up exactly the same amount of fuel just deliver the cargo faster.
If you deliver something faster you also need less ships in general. You are going to burn the same amount of fuel but you can deliver the same amount of goods with less ships over the same amount of time.
Example
If you need to deliver 1.000.000 people to a new colony and you have two ships both of which can carry 50.000 people but one can deliver those twice as fast (including loading and unloading just for the sake the example). Both ships are the same size and burn the same amount of fuel per distance traveled (have the same fuel consumption ratio and same size engines). The faster ships can do it in half the time or you need twice the amount of slower ships to do it in the same amount of time.
Not caring about the time it takes to deliver a certain amount of goods is only important if you have more ships than you know what to do with.
Exchanging old engines for new ones is important. You want better fuel consumption ratios and you also can make ships with a lower power to size ratio to lower fuel consumption considerably but have overall speed remain roughly the same. This is because lower the amount of fuel that your commercial design use is very important. It is generally better to have more ships than less but faster that burn more fuel per tonnage of delivered goods.
Jorgen_CAB:
And this engine...
--- Code: ---Engine Power: 210 Fuel Use Per Hour: 5.33 Litres
Fuel Consumption per Engine Power Hour: 0.025 Litres
Engine Size: 50 HS Engine HTK: 25
Thermal Signature: 210 Exp Chance: 3
Cost: 36.75 Crew: 17
Materials Required: 36.75x Gallicite
Commercial Engine
--- End code ---
Which has the same power as the older Nuclear Pulse engine but lower power to weight ratio to save more fuel is way better to use. It is done with the same 0.7 fuel consumption rate as the Nuclear Pulse above.
It will basically use up almost 60% less fuel than the Nuclear Pulse engine delivering the same amount of cargo. It also is much cheaper to build. So it is even worth scrapping the old engines just to build these ones instead for the resources you get back.
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