Author Topic: Change to infrastructure costs  (Read 4780 times)

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Offline Andrew

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Re: Change to infrastructure costs
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2021, 05:02:45 AM »
Blockades certainly play a role in ending wars, looking at modern industrial wars blockades gradually crippled German production in both world wars and Japans in WW2. However in all of these cases it took a combination of massive bombardment and invasion to actually end the wars and in both cases there were signifigant elements of the nations who wanted to keep fighting. Britain had no interest in surrendering under partial blockade despite the availability of superficially generous terms in late 40 until mid 42.
So blockades forcing government collapse on something as self sufficient as a homeworld is questionable, more likely on a colony which cannot feed itself (But Japan was on the verge of mass starvation and still planning to fight on until the atomic attacks) but the likelihood of it is effected by a huge range of factors Aurora does not model, Government type, population attitudes, secret police efficiency, percieved consequences of surrender, actual consequences of surrender, Terms offerred and many other factors.
Options would be to make it apurely optional rule, add an SM Option to force the surrender of an NPR (a PR can already surrender) but there needs to be ways of ensuring that it does not happen when it does not fit the 'scenario' i.e Orks don't surrender
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Change to infrastructure costs
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2021, 09:58:51 AM »
With regard to blockades, I think we need to recognize that a blockade "only" affects the shipping of resources (neglecting knock-on effects which are not straightforward to understand or predict), not necessarily the resources which are already present "behind the lines" so to speak. Already in Aurora this is true mechanically, as a planet cannot receive shipments of minerals from offworld if it is blockaded.

However, a planet is a very large object and almost certainly has the capability to provide essentials such as food, water, etc. to its inhabitants. In fact this is explicitly modeled through Aurora through the agricultural segment of the population. Compare to historical cases where very often the object of a blockade or siege has explicitly been at least in part to starve the defenders into surrendering. As Aurora stands, mechanically this is not possible right now.

In a hypothetical future version in which agricultural production is controllable and food can be shipped from farming worlds to other worlds, allowing colony specialization in this regard, then blockade-based surrender mechanics make sense as a natural extension of such a system...if a population is starving to death at some point surrender becomes at least an option, likely tied to the racial stats. But for now as long as every population is mechanically self-sufficient at a base subsistence level it is not a mechanic which makes much sense.

I would like to see NPRs offer surrender, not so much due to blockading but certainly if their fleet lies in shambles they should offer surrender to get a better result than total annihilation. However this would require an overall rework of diplomacy so I will have to be patient for such things and meanwhile content myself with SM mode and PvP campaigns.
 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Change to infrastructure costs
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2021, 10:42:45 AM »
Blockades certainly play a role in ending wars, looking at modern industrial wars blockades gradually crippled German production in both world wars and Japans in WW2. However in all of these cases it took a combination of massive bombardment and invasion to actually end the wars and in both cases there were signifigant elements of the nations who wanted to keep fighting. Britain had no interest in surrendering under partial blockade despite the availability of superficially generous terms in late 40 until mid 42.
This is an extremely common myth but it really isn't true - German military production increased throughout both WW1 and WW2. Germany definitely had economical, industrial and logistical issues but the blockades were not crippling. They helped win the wars, that is true, but they did not end them. Just like the U-Boat campaign in WW2, which Churchill wrote in his memoirs as the 'scariest thing to him' but economic historians have proven was never a real threat to Britain.

Sorry for going on a tangent again but this is my field so...  :P