Author Topic: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects  (Read 2719 times)

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Croûton

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Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« on: August 11, 2021, 06:54:47 AM »
I've noticed that in C#, it is very hard to design viable fighters with low crew requirements (1-2 crew).  This is partly due to the fact that reduced deployment time is not reducing crew requirements like it did in VB6.  I know that many members of the community argue that the term "fighter" actually describes small attack craft or corvettes, but I find this line of thought counterintuitive.  Given that Aurora4X is largely a sandbox with roleplay and thematic versatility as its strong points, I'd love to be able to design actual modern day or space opera-inspired single or double seated fighter craft.

The easiest way to achieve this would probably a reintroduction of deployment time affecting crew requirements.  Alternatively, a "fighter" checkbox in the design screen which reduces crew to one would be neat.  Any thoughts on this?
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2021, 01:34:55 AM »
Hello and welcome to the forum. Please register your account so you can post normally as otherwise a moderator needs to manually approve of each post you make.

 

Offline serger

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2021, 02:49:07 AM »
Given that Aurora4X is largely a sandbox with roleplay and thematic versatility as its strong points, I'd love to be able to design actual modern day or space opera-inspired single or double seated fighter craft.

The easiest way to achieve this would probably a reintroduction of deployment time affecting crew requirements.

Second this.
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2021, 10:46:48 AM »
Actually, it is not very difficult to create single-seater missile fighters and bombers, as missile box launchers and sufficiently small MFCs can have zero crew requirements. The trick is that engines always require crew, however an engine with a product of size times EP boost modifier less than 1.5 will require only a single crew member. Using this, it is not difficult to design a serviceable missile bomber in the 100-ton range which requires only a single pilot, and with a second engine you can design in the 150-200 ton range a double-seater bomber.

For beam weapons this ends up not being feasible due to crew requirements for beam weapons plus the need for effective BFCs, and you are better off going up to the 500-ton limit and treating these fighters as gunships.

It is worth noting that typical modern fighter aircraft are in the range of 20 tons, not 500, so the crew requirements for "fighters" in Aurora are reasonable given this. On the flip side, it is also worth noting that while modern combat fighters are always single or dual seat craft, this has not always been the case historically as, e.g., WWII bombers could have crews of 5 to 10 depending on the plane and mission role.

Personally I prefer the current system as it is quite flexible IMO. In gameplay terms, there is an important resource consideration which is the number of trained crew available to man all of your ships... adding ways to artificially deflate this requirement with effectively no downside in case of fighters and other small/short-range craft minimizes the importance of this resource. So for gameplay I think it works best as it is, and for RP we can use our imaginations as always.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2021, 03:21:24 PM »
It is worth noting that typical modern fighter aircraft are in the range of 20 tons, not 500, so the crew requirements for "fighters" in Aurora are reasonable given this. On the flip side, it is also worth noting that while modern combat fighters are always single or dual seat craft, this has not always been the case historically as, e.g., WWII bombers could have crews of 5 to 10 depending on the plane and mission role.

A 500t fighter in Aurora is not actually comparable to a 500 metric ton ship in terms of size... it actually is more like 500*14=7000t sea going ship... so more like a Wet Navy destroyer rather than a anything else.

Now... one can obviously role-play this to be whatever they wish... but to me it makes allot of sense that ships are quite big as they are not really in any way shape and form comparable to a flying air-craft versus a ship, they all fly through the same medium using the same engines and fuel.

I rather think that missile fighters requires too little crew versus beam fighters for example. I think that small crafts should require allot more crew and larger ship a bit fewer. The larger a ship is the more crew can be cross trained and perform tasks allot more efficient, crew simply should be less the more a ship would "normally" require. A ship with say 15 engines that each require 10 crew should not require 150 crew to operate them, they probably could make due with 120... while a ship with only one engine still need the full 15 crew to operate that single engine. The simplest thing would be to just reduce crew requirements the more crew a ship require... I also think that deployment time also should reduce crew requirement to some degree like it used to, that also make some sense... but at the expense at much longer battle repair checks.
 

Offline Borealis4x

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 03:52:23 PM »
I've always taken the tonnage at face value and imagined my 'bombers' being the size of C-17 Globemasters. Makes sense both from a crew and space-design perspective. I imagine you'd only see actual fighter-sized space vessels as misc support ships and drones that aren't even represented as ships in Aurora.
 
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Offline RougeNPS

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2021, 05:14:13 PM »
Sometimes i just treat missiles as if they are fighters (Drones or properly piloted depending upon purpose.) and just throw them at the enemy.

Yes its dark but they are about as durable as TIE Fighters so thats kinda the point.
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2021, 07:25:39 AM »
A 500t fighter in Aurora is not actually comparable to a 500 metric ton ship in terms of size... it actually is more like 500*14=7000t sea going ship... so more like a Wet Navy destroyer rather than a anything else.
That your estimate or something official?
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2021, 12:02:55 PM »
A 500t fighter in Aurora is not actually comparable to a 500 metric ton ship in terms of size... it actually is more like 500*14=7000t sea going ship... so more like a Wet Navy destroyer rather than a anything else.
That your estimate or something official?

Steve has said elsewhere that he has unofficially used 1 ton = the volume of 1 ton of liquid hydrogen which happens to be about 14 cubic meters, I believe this is the standard used in the Traveller RPG? But I may be mistaken, as I've never played it.

However I do say "unofficially" as it has no effect on game mechanics, does not even show up on the wiki lore page, and certainly any player can treat a ton however they like (I myselfusually treat it as a straight measure of mass).
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2021, 02:43:13 AM »
A 500t fighter in Aurora is not actually comparable to a 500 metric ton ship in terms of size... it actually is more like 500*14=7000t sea going ship... so more like a Wet Navy destroyer rather than a anything else.
That your estimate or something official?

Steve has said elsewhere that he has unofficially used 1 ton = the volume of 1 ton of liquid hydrogen which happens to be about 14 cubic meters, I believe this is the standard used in the Traveller RPG? But I may be mistaken, as I've never played it.

However I do say "unofficially" as it has no effect on game mechanics, does not even show up on the wiki lore page, and certainly any player can treat a ton however they like (I myselfusually treat it as a straight measure of mass).
I see. For curiosity sake: is that how the tonnage of real ships is measured? A 7.000t ship isn't actually the weight of the ship but rather the tonnage of water that is displaced by it?
 

Offline serger

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2021, 05:14:09 AM »
I see. For curiosity sake: is that how the tonnage of real ships is measured? A 7.000t ship isn't actually the weight of the ship but rather the tonnage of water that is displaced by it?

Both are the same (see Archimedes' principle).
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Fighter crews and deployment time crew effects
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2021, 06:04:34 AM »
I see. For curiosity sake: is that how the tonnage of real ships is measured? A 7.000t ship isn't actually the weight of the ship but rather the tonnage of water that is displaced by it?

Both are the same (see Archimedes' principle).

Aurora uses a single measurement (HS) that represents both mass and volume. For the purposes of designing modules, I assume that each 'ton' is equal to 14 cubic metres, which is the volume of one ton of hydrogen. However, that isn't represented in game so players can use whatever suits their imagined genre.