Posted by: serger
« on: January 27, 2021, 03:09:32 AM »Indeed the bonuses was not working at least a few versions ago... but I don't know if Steve corrected it or not.At 1.12 it's still bugged.
Indeed the bonuses was not working at least a few versions ago... but I don't know if Steve corrected it or not.At 1.12 it's still bugged.
Lack of commanders I think is why many players use 10k or even 20k as their base formation size...however this runs into the issue of many commanders lacking the ability to effectively command those formations (although I think this is bugged and command size doesn't actually have an effect?). I would frankly remove ground force command from the game as far as commander skill goes - rank and HQ capacity should be enough, and it is the only "skill" in the game that limits rather than improves a commander.
Well, from my research I've found that a variety of different ranks have roles in HQs. While your model works for the lowest-ranked formations, a General isn't going to be staffed by a bunch of Lt. Generals outside of maybe his XO as that would be a waste of a senior officer. Even Battalions will have Captains typically serve in an HQ.
Only the XO should have to be directly below the CO; the other billets should have a larger range of officers to choose from.
While you're right, there comes a point where we do have to simplify the modeling for the sake of good gameplay and having a system that plays well with other mechanics, particularly the auto-assignment which is essential to having a manageable game once officer numbers start creeping up over time. Currently the auto-assignment only operates on the minimum/assigned rank of any position including command, for both navy and ground commanders, and Steve so far has not shown any apparent interest in changing this although it has been suggested.
The basis for the rank arrangement I suggested is that the battalion-brigade-corps structure seems to be generally one that works best within Aurora for various reasons, although many players do indeed RP a more detailed structure, and in this case the assignments traditionally associated with the ranks I listed as staff officers are omitted anyways (MAJ = company, COL = regiment, MJG = division). This plus the traditional triangular formation structure would fit with a 2:1 rank ratio very neatly even if not perfectly accurate. Personally I already find it a minor nightmare trying to devise any realistic force structure that isn't three line sub-formations and all the support in the HQ which will actually use my ground officers, and I do worry that having a staff officer system with some positions being rank-1, some rank-2, etc. will only give me more nightmares...
Not to mention, incidentally, that this discussion is a tad academic as supposedly the bonuses are not actually passed down from superior HQs as intended anyways, though I haven't tested this myself so I'm not 100% convinced.I don't think Steve is done with the ground combat mechanic and what we have is what he had time to create and made functional and good enough system until he feel the urge to improve on it.
I also feel I continuously lack commanders for my military formation despite mostly using battalion level formations at roughly 5k size as my smallest main combat units outside my Naval forces.
I always have to build huge numbers of academies to support my fleets and armies and I have troves of scientists that I don't know what to do with... I put academy leaders in every place I have academies and they are either lead by a naval or a ground officer.
I would also advice to start at battalion level... company level is too fiddly to deal with and the game really don't support it that well. For fleets it make more sense to model down to Lieutenants, I do that too, the ships don't have that much crew to command in comparison with ground forces.
Lack of commanders I think is why many players use 10k or even 20k as their base formation size...however this runs into the issue of many commanders lacking the ability to effectively command those formations (although I think this is bugged and command size doesn't actually have an effect?). I would frankly remove ground force command from the game as far as commander skill goes - rank and HQ capacity should be enough, and it is the only "skill" in the game that limits rather than improves a commander.
Well, from my research I've found that a variety of different ranks have roles in HQs. While your model works for the lowest-ranked formations, a General isn't going to be staffed by a bunch of Lt. Generals outside of maybe his XO as that would be a waste of a senior officer. Even Battalions will have Captains typically serve in an HQ.
Only the XO should have to be directly below the CO; the other billets should have a larger range of officers to choose from.
I don't think Steve is done with the ground combat mechanic and what we have is what he had time to create and made functional and good enough system until he feel the urge to improve on it.
I also feel I continuously lack commanders for my military formation despite mostly using battalion level formations at roughly 5k size as my smallest main combat units outside my Naval forces.
I always have to build huge numbers of academies to support my fleets and armies and I have troves of scientists that I don't know what to do with... I put academy leaders in every place I have academies and they are either lead by a naval or a ground officer.
I would also advice to start at battalion level... company level is too fiddly to deal with and the game really don't support it that well. For fleets it make more sense to model down to Lieutenants, I do that too, the ships don't have that much crew to command in comparison with ground forces.
You should be able to select what types of officers to include in your HQ, just like how you can select different Command and Control modules in ships. Here are some examples:
Executive Officer: Applies Ground Combat Training bonus. Commander must be 2 ranks higher than the lowest ground unit commander rank.
Operations Officer: Applies all Ground Combat bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Logistics Officer: Applies Ground Combat Logistics bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Communications Officer: Applies Ground Combat Maneuver bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Science Officer: Applies Survey and Xenoarchaeology bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
In order to keep junior officers from being assigned to the general staff of big units such as Army HQs, the range of possible candidates for a staff officer position will be limited to leaders 3 ranks below the CO. So a Colonel commanding a Regiment can have a Communications Officer who is a Captain, but a General commanding and Army can only choose from Brigadier Generals and up to staff a similar role.
This is necessary since there isn't any hard limit on the level of officer than can command a single formation, unlike ships which can only be led by O-4s and below unless you manually assign higher-ranked officers.
I would probably keep it simpler, and just have the required rank be directly below the formation's listed (not necessarily actual) commander rank, since unlike warships we do have subordinate formations in a hierarchy as part of the mechanics (where subfleets don't really have "superior" formations so are not that similar). Note that while there is no hard limit, it is of the same nature as warships as far as auto-assign goes i.e. a commander will not be assigned to a formation with a minimum rank lower than their own unless you do it manually yourself.
This would work out naturally as you have e.g. Lt. Colonels commanding a battalion assisted by Majors, Brigadiers commanding a brigade assisted by Colonels, and Lt. Generals commanding a corps assisted by Maj. Generals. Then set the rank ratio to 2:1 just as for naval officers and maybe bump up the generation rate a bit (currently is 5 officers per academy per year, bumping up to 6 with most of the new generation being ground forces) and we're in great shape.
You should be able to select what types of officers to include in your HQ, just like how you can select different Command and Control modules in ships. Here are some examples:
Executive Officer: Applies Ground Combat Training bonus. Commander must be 2 ranks higher than the lowest ground unit commander rank.
Operations Officer: Applies all Ground Combat bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Logistics Officer: Applies Ground Combat Logistics bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Communications Officer: Applies Ground Combat Maneuver bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
Science Officer: Applies Survey and Xenoarchaeology bonus. Commander must be 1 rank higher than lowest ground unit commander rank.
In order to keep junior officers from being assigned to the general staff of big units such as Army HQs, the range of possible candidates for a staff officer position will be limited to leaders 3 ranks below the CO. So a Colonel commanding a Regiment can have a Communications Officer who is a Captain, but a General commanding and Army can only choose from Brigadier Generals and up to staff a similar role.
This is necessary since there isn't any hard limit on the level of officer than can command a single formation, unlike ships which can only be led by O-4s and below unless you manually assign higher-ranked officers.
Of course, I wouldn't feel compelled to model down to the Company rank in the first place if HQ's had billets for lower-ranked officers to fill. A quick Google search tells me that a typical Battalion HQ has an XO position as well as 6 other lower-ranked officers serving in various roles. If an HQ had just two extra roles for officers plus an XO, I think that would be enough to keep everyone busy.
You're going to run into commander problems pretty quickly I think. A 25,000-ton total formation built out of 25 1,000-ton sub-formations is going to need 25 ground forces commanders, and one usually starts a campaign with around 50-60 of these. Granted you generate more over time but once you start having more than just 1-2 "planets of consequence" you'll need an awful lot of commanders and this is before you even start planning your offensive forces (which regularly need to be in the 100,000s if not millions of tons to take a planet).I originally made every company almost exclusively out of Static Heavy Weapons since why not? I figure if an enemy attacks my planet I'd much rather keep them occupied in a protracted siege until I can relive them with outside forces rather than risk losing the garrison and the planet in a counter-attack. But I thought it was kinda unrealistic how the entire garrison was made of heavy weapons only and some infantry, and was worried that the relative lack of 'shots' the garrison could take would lead to it being overwhelmed. So a typical PDF battalion has 3 standard PDF Infantry Companies and 1 PDF 'Strongpoint' with all the Heavy Weapons wrapped in Heavy Armor.
I originally made every company almost exclusively out of Static Heavy Weapons since why not? I figure if an enemy attacks my planet I'd much rather keep them occupied in a protracted siege until I can relive them with outside forces rather than risk losing the garrison and the planet in a counter-attack. But I thought it was kinda unrealistic how the entire garrison was made of heavy weapons only and some infantry, and was worried that the relative lack of 'shots' the garrison could take would lead to it being overwhelmed. So a typical PDF battalion has 3 standard PDF Infantry Companies and 1 PDF 'Strongpoint' with all the Heavy Weapons wrapped in Heavy Armor.
PDF Company
Transport Size: 1,000 tons
Build Cost: 30.3 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
98x PDF Guardsman
25x PDF Anti-Personnel Team
10x PDF Anti-Vehical Team
2x PDF Anti-Aircraft Team
PDF Strongpoint
Transport Size: 997 tons
Build Cost: 54 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
39x PDF Guardsman
9x Heavy Anti-Personel Emplacement
6x Heavy Anti-Vehical Emplacement
2x Heavy Anti-Air Emplacement
PDF Artillery Battery
Transport Size: 946 tons
Build Cost: 56.8 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
13x Heavy Artillery Emplacement
PDF Anti-Air Battery
Transport Size: 946 tons
Build Cost: 56.8 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
13x Heavy Anti-Air Emplacement
STO Battery
Transport Size: 934 tons
Build Cost: 597.8 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
2x 18.75cm STO Laser Emplacment
OPD Battery
Transport Size: 813 tons
Build Cost: 548.6 BP
1x PDF Company HQ
3x Quad Gauss Cannon R400-10 PD Emplacement