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Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: February 09, 2021, 05:20:07 AM »

Quote from: Jorgen_CAB on February 09, 2021, 04:15:41 AM
Looks ok to me... just don't forget the mention some of the changes coming in the 1.13 changes to hangars so it is a bit more future proof.

At the start of the mechanics section i cover this fact.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: February 09, 2021, 04:15:41 AM »

Looks ok to me... just don't forget the mention some of the changes coming in the 1.13 changes to hangars so it is a bit more future proof.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: February 05, 2021, 03:41:12 PM »

Apparently the link wasnt working, again any feedback you guys have would be welcome, but you should be able to access it now.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: February 02, 2021, 12:08:11 PM »

Hey guys its been a bit but I have practically finished the first draft script, sitting in at 4000 words, am posting it for peoples thoughs and feedback, there are already some things I do want to change but I cant spend forever on it, any glaring problems or issues il correct immediately, i still need to add sources and other things but this works as a rough first draft.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gi0QqMmZSU5vGsOy4u8OIgk0yHso6sqW-iXeOup_-5Y/edit?usp=sharing
keep in mind this will also be a full written guide once i have more time but video is priority.

Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: January 29, 2021, 12:25:12 AM »

While i can see the advantages and logic behind such a process and I may look into adding parts of it to the guide, the main problem is that I cant cover every single aspect in one video so covering carriers themselves in one video and then fighters in another will  make it much easier to digest information and understand things because otherwise its gonna be like 1 hour 30 minute long video.

But in terms of use cases, philosophy behind what you are designing and how to think around designing a carrier this is very helpful and to some extent will be covered in such a way in the guide, in aurora these concepts are rather deep/complex and i have found require multiple videos and inside each video require multiple chapters which themselves have sub chapters to be able to fully explain every detail possible.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: January 28, 2021, 10:18:28 PM »

Quote from: brondi00 on January 28, 2021, 10:10:54 PM
-snip
^This.

 - This is basically how I do my carrier design, but in a different order.
Posted by: brondi00
« on: January 28, 2021, 10:10:54 PM »

I don't know if you can cover carrier design without covering fighter design to some extent.

As a newb, lo those many years ago, I remember carrier use and design was daunting.  So much to think about.  I developed a simple process that made it a lot easier.

You don't start with a carrier, or even a fighter.  You start with whatever the primary system is in the fighter.  So a beam fighter, you design the beam weapon first.  Missile fighter the missile first, and recon/early warning fighter the sensor suite you want it to hold.

Then you design the fighter to carry that package.  Then you are in a position to design a carrier that will house and deploy that fighter or some mixture of many fighters. 

I usually have 4 early warning craft, 2 rescue shuttles, some amount of attacking fighters. 

But to know how to design and use the carrier you have to know first how much fuel, msp, missiles, and hangar space you are going to need.  Which you can't know until you know what the parasites are going to be using.

I actually use this process for all design in the game now.  So a PD destroyer.  I design the main PD weapon first, them it's fire controls.  Then I start to out a ship together around that. 

It's greatly simplified the design process for me.  It made something that was really confusing, actually very straightforward, and fun.

Anyway, my 2¢
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: January 27, 2021, 02:10:50 PM »

Quote from: Lord Solar on January 26, 2021, 08:33:52 PM
Simple and affordable way to make carriers both fuel efficient and possibly jump capable is to do commercial engines and commercial jump drives regardless of if the carrier is a military craft or not.

I do this sometimes with escort carriers and often with super large carriers for which I can't afford to create military jump drives so I need a commercial jump-drive. Their role is simply to act as a giant floating fighter base and will move at the same speed of my fleet support ships.

Cheap engines on a carrier make them really cheap to give them long deployment times, maintenance cycles and with being fuel efficient can operate far from home with impunity. Low speed obviously comes with its own disadvantages but you can't get everything.
Posted by: Lord Solar
« on: January 26, 2021, 08:33:52 PM »

Simple and affordable way to make carriers both fuel efficient and possibly jump capable is to do commercial engines and commercial jump drives regardless of if the carrier is a military craft or not.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: January 25, 2021, 10:31:04 PM »

I will not be covering fighter design but i will in the future as i want to focus fully on carriers as people voted for it
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: January 25, 2021, 04:23:21 PM »

 - Are you covering fighter design in this too? If so I could add more on that as I'm rather kookoo for Coco Puffs when it comes to using fighters, so I've designed a lot of them.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: January 25, 2021, 06:31:51 AM »

Really great comments, I will hopefully have a draft of the script done somewhat soon as i have been making good progress and I can already see areas I want to improve thanks to the feedback on what you guys want to see.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: January 25, 2021, 06:26:16 AM »

Allot of very good insight have already been shared in this thread.

I think you also can to some degree distinguish a carrier froma ship that also just have hangars as a secondary function, otherwise all of my ships become carriers more or less.

I think there are many types of carriers in the game and as stated it is important to understand what their roles are.

For example I could have a jump carrier whose job is to be the leader of a squadron of smaller ships and provide the squadron with a dynamic scouting force through it's hangar. It is not really a dedicated carrier but it is one of it's main role aside from providing their squadron with a fair jump capability.

You also can differentiate a dedicated fleet carrier with an escort carrier.

A fleet carrier need to have all the facilities to operate their fighters for at least one major engagements, that usually means several strikes worth of combat power so fuel, supplies and ammunition in addition to the fighters themselves.

An escort carrier probably have a role of transporting fighters during peace time and provide extra striking power or simply anti-fighter cover to a fleet. The escort probably are rather close to supporting ships and don't carry much in the form of extra fuel, ammunition and supplies. I would usually convert smaller ships into escort carrier when their previous role is not longer needed, or rather their shipyards will now produce escort carriers rather then old destroyers as my new ones are bigger and more capable.

As said... first you need to decide on the role of the carrier or why the hangar space is used in this particular ship.

In almost all of my capital ships I have some hangar space for scout crafts. A 20k destroyer would have at least 500-2000k hangar space for scouting or other uses. This can be anything recon to anti-fighter type operations. These ships are no dedicated carriers but if you want to fight other fighters then using your own fighter will extend the range at which you can engage enemy fighters substantially. A squadron of destroyers operating on their own can also be small carriers for anti-fighter purposes. An interceptor can be both beam and missile base... sometimes a combination of different fighters is good too.

A fleet carrier can also be very different based on doctrine. Do you build the carrier to always stay as far a way as possible from an enemy with minimal defences, which means you can optimise offensive potential. Or are the carrier suppose to be able to take part in a jump point defence or even offence?!?

Personally I like my carriers to be battle ready with good armour and shield as well as some basic beam weapons for self defence. That usually means I can fit perhaps between 20-30% of the ships hull for hangar space. A more optimised fleet carrier but more vulnerable to counterattack probably could have between 30-40% of its hull in hangar space.

What you choose probably have more to do with your overall doctrine than anything else.

As in most doctrines the most important part is to decide on what you primary way of hurting the enemy are suppose to be. Don't build a fleet where you don't have a primary way to deal with the enemy. Are your carriers a secondary defence weapon or the ones that deliver the primary damage potential. If you deploy fleet carriers you should not also deploy missile cruisers as the primary way to deal with enemy forces. There is nothing wrong with secondary armament and some tonnage in a fleet dedicated to beam weapons or ship based ASM if your fleet carries are suppose to do the primary damage, just make sure the proportions are justified.

Ship design is so much more than just the design of this particular ship, it always is about the entire doctrine of an entire fleet and it's support organisation. What are the needs... what are the distances involved, technology capabilities and most importantly what do you expect the enemy to have in way to respond to you. I often play multi-faction campaigns so ship design, doctrine and enemy disposition is even more involved and complicated than it is against the AI that don't have so many different ship classes to adapt to and who don't adapt their designs to your that much either.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: January 25, 2021, 05:43:27 AM »

Quote from: Droll on January 25, 2021, 05:42:02 AM
Quote from: SpaceMarine on January 25, 2021, 05:39:47 AM
I have taken the decision prior to use all the 1.13 changes so that it is not out of date within weeks after release of the video. I have mentioned though in the video that this is the case and that if it doesnt match up exactly to how you see in your version then that is why. I will probably also be making a small section at the end which will cover the differences between 1.12 and 1.13 if people want it.

When is 1.13 coming out though? I see no indication that it's close.

No one knows but I want this tutorial and future tutorials to cover as much as possible and be as resilient to changes as possible, so thats why I am doing it this way.
Posted by: Droll
« on: January 25, 2021, 05:42:02 AM »

Quote from: SpaceMarine on January 25, 2021, 05:39:47 AM
I have taken the decision prior to use all the 1.13 changes so that it is not out of date within weeks after release of the video. I have mentioned though in the video that this is the case and that if it doesnt match up exactly to how you see in your version then that is why. I will probably also be making a small section at the end which will cover the differences between 1.12 and 1.13 if people want it.

When is 1.13 coming out though? I see no indication that it's close.