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Posted by: Nori
« on: December 17, 2023, 11:44:44 AM »

I wouldn't use turrets in STOs except for PD weapons, mostly gauss. Instead of going for more tracking speed vs ships, just put more STO units in the formation. It's pretty cheap and they are crazy effective. In my current game I have gauss turret STOs set to point defense and then I have particle lance STOs just using default tracking. I design 10,000 formations for these and just build as many as I feel I need. One planet I put them on has seen a fair bit of use. Despite being shot at, none of the units have ever been hit.
Posted by: Ulzgoroth
« on: December 17, 2023, 04:01:39 AM »

Quote from: Garfunkel on December 17, 2023, 02:57:44 AM
Yes 3000,
Yes 4000,
Yes 5000,
Yes 3000,

You got this man, don't worry. This is why turrets are so useful because you can set their tracking speed to match your BFC tracking speed. Which is why the PD weapon rule of thumb is gauss cannons in turrets. There's actually lot more into the optimal PD weapon choice and setup as it varies for different tech levels and situations, plus now 2.2 changed PD and missile rules so things are little bit up in the air but you can safely ignore that stuff for now. Put a lot of gauss turrets on your escorts and have the turret tracking speed match the BFC tracking speed and build lots of them, you'll be happy you did!
Most of the new PD rules shouldn't change the comparative usefulness of one PD beam over another, I think?

Exceptions:
- There's no longer ECM for missiles that subtracts from your chance to hit, so low-accuracy patterns (like railguns for PD) don't suffer from that.
- Laser missiles mean that short-range-only PD can be completely bypassed if the attacker brings the right kind of missiles.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: December 17, 2023, 02:57:44 AM »

Yes 3000,
Yes 4000,
Yes 5000,
Yes 3000,

You got this man, don't worry. This is why turrets are so useful because you can set their tracking speed to match your BFC tracking speed. Which is why the PD weapon rule of thumb is gauss cannons in turrets. There's actually lot more into the optimal PD weapon choice and setup as it varies for different tech levels and situations, plus now 2.2 changed PD and missile rules so things are little bit up in the air but you can safely ignore that stuff for now. Put a lot of gauss turrets on your escorts and have the turret tracking speed match the BFC tracking speed and build lots of them, you'll be happy you did!
Posted by: Uran
« on: December 17, 2023, 02:21:36 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on December 16, 2023, 10:06:51 AM
Correct, as long as the BFC can support that much.

You are confused me. Sorry for my stupidity :)

It is how I understand the actual tracking for hit-chance calculations:
1) It can never be more than BFC tracking speed
2) But it is equal to racial tracking or ship speed whichever is greater

So I can do this table:
Racial TrackingShip SpeedBFC TrackingActual Tracking
3000200050003000Racial tracking is greater than the ship's speed and below BFC; BFC is needlessly overpowered
3000400050004000Ship's speed is greater than the racial tracking and below BFC; BFC is needlessly overpowered
3000700050005000Actual tracking is limited by BFC despite ship's speed it greater
7000500030003000Actual tracking is limited by BFC despite racial tracking is greater
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: December 16, 2023, 10:06:51 AM »

Quote from: Uran on December 16, 2023, 10:05:03 AM
From this, Do I understand correctly that there is no point to use the turrets as an STO weapon?

Pretty much the only reason to use turrets as STOs is point defense, or if you use a multiple-weapon turret with no armor or gearing you can save some tonnage on multiple weapons. In your case though, probably no benefit from the turret.

Quote
If I have only 3km/s racial tracking speed, but designed a ship with 5km/s speed than regular lasers will use 5km/s tracking because the ship's speed is greater?

Correct, as long as the BFC can support that much.
Posted by: Uran
« on: December 16, 2023, 10:05:03 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on December 16, 2023, 09:42:24 AM
STOs can have one of two kinds of fire controls, which are automatically designed and included with the STO:
  • The normal kind which has 1x tracking speed and up to 4x range, times 1.25x as a bonus for STOs. The 4x range can be reduced if the weapon has very short range.
  • A point defense kind with 4x tracking speed and 1x range, which is what the "Point Defence Weapon" checkbox applies.

From this, Do I understand correctly that there is no point to use the turrets as an STO weapon?

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on December 16, 2023, 09:42:24 AM
The tracking speed of a non-turret weapon is limited to the speed of the hull it is mounted on, or the racial tracking speed tech level, whichever is greater. The BFC cannot improve the weapon tracking speed beyond this (in lore, the BFC can track targets at whatever speed but cannot physically make the weapon traverse and aim any faster).

If I have only 3km/s racial tracking speed, but designed a ship with 5km/s speed than regular lasers will use 5km/s tracking because the ship's speed is greater?
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: December 16, 2023, 09:42:24 AM »

Quote from: Uran on December 16, 2023, 08:17:00 AM
Hi,

I have designed turret with tracking speed of 5500 with intention to give this turret to STO unit class.

In the Ground Unit Class design window I can choose this turret as an STO weapon. But it shows me a tracking speed 3000 km/s unless I checked "Point Defence Weapon" (don't know exactly what is meant).

Does it work as intended?
What exactly "Point Defence Weapon" means?

STOs can have one of two kinds of fire controls, which are automatically designed and included with the STO:
  • The normal kind which has 1x tracking speed and up to 4x range, times 1.25x as a bonus for STOs. The 4x range can be reduced if the weapon has very short range.
  • A point defense kind with 4x tracking speed and 1x range, which is what the "Point Defence Weapon" checkbox applies.

Quote from: Uran on December 16, 2023, 08:40:07 AM
PS. By the way, do I understand correctly that my Beam Fire Control with tracking speed of 5700 does nothing to the tracking speed of the laser itself which is still racial 3km/s?  Is me BFC is overkill?

The tracking speed of a non-turret weapon is limited to the speed of the hull it is mounted on, or the racial tracking speed tech level, whichever is greater. The BFC cannot improve the weapon tracking speed beyond this (in lore, the BFC can track targets at whatever speed but cannot physically make the weapon traverse and aim any faster).
Posted by: Uran
« on: December 16, 2023, 08:40:07 AM »

Quote from: Zap0 on December 16, 2023, 08:25:14 AM
sounds like your "racial tracking speed" is 3k, meaning you currently have the 3k tracking tech researched. If you check the PD box for STO, it'll design a 4x speed instead of 4x range fire control. That means you probably should be designing a 12k tracking turret for your PD STO :-)

Indeed, my racial tracking speed is 3k now.
But, I do not want PD STO. It is short range. I want anti ship STO with better tracking speed. If I put my turret on a ship I can see the tracking speed for it is 5500, while my regular lasers still have racial tracking speed of 3km/s.

Code: [Select]
15.0cm C2 Near Ultraviolet Laser (10)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 30,000 km    ROF 15        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Twin 15.0cm C2 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 180,000km     TS: 5500 km/s     Power 12-4     RM 30,000 km    ROF 15        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Beam Fire Control R192-TS5700 (1)     Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 5,700 km/s    ECCM-0     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
I was hoped that the turret will help with tracking speed to the STO also.

PS. By the way, do I understand correctly that my Beam Fire Control with tracking speed of 5700 does nothing to the tracking speed of the laser itself which is still racial 3km/s?  Is me BFC is overkill?
Posted by: Zap0
« on: December 16, 2023, 08:25:14 AM »

sounds like your "racial tracking speed" is 3k, meaning you currently have the 3k tracking tech researched. If you check the PD box for STO, it'll design a 4x speed instead of 4x range fire control. That means you probably should be designing a 12k tracking turret for your PD STO :-)
Posted by: Uran
« on: December 16, 2023, 08:17:00 AM »

Hi,

I have designed turret with tracking speed of 5500 with intention to give this turret to STO unit class.

In the Ground Unit Class design window I can choose this turret as an STO weapon. But it shows me a tracking speed 3000 km/s unless I checked "Point Defence Weapon" (don't know exactly what is meant).

Does it work as intended?
What exactly "Point Defence Weapon" means?