Posted by: Andrew
« on: March 24, 2025, 06:18:03 PM »To summarise I think the idea of adding 1 ton of a random other material to automated mines is completely and utterly pointless
Posted by: paolot
« on: March 24, 2025, 06:11:22 PM »If we use the self driving car example, the mass of the electronics to drive the car is on the order of 1/1000th of the mass of the car or about 1 unit of another material per 5 automated mines, ...
So, implicitly, you agree with me: to build AMs, we can use the same quantity of Corundium that we use for manned mines. Or, for sake of simulation or of role playing, we can use 120 Corundium plus 1 of each other non-material.
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... a change which will make a huge difference and force us to think about what we build
I agree. And I like this change.
I think it doesn't save us from the Corundium lack. But it would make us think if we need Infrastructures and colonists and mines or AMs. And this decision can evolve during the game, with the research about genetic modification or orbit mining or terraforming ability, to say some.
As a sort of balancement, we can also suppose a small difference in efficiency of AMs vs manned mines, e.g. the first ones a bit less productive (let's say 90%).
Posted by: Andrew
« on: March 24, 2025, 11:53:03 AM »If we use the self driving car example, the mass of the electronics to drive the car is on the order of 1/1000th of the mass of the car or about 1 unit of another material per 5 automated mines, a change which will make a huge difference and force us to think about what we build
Posted by: AdamantineAxe
« on: March 24, 2025, 10:58:11 AM »2025 Earth humans are already making smart mines, with autonomous drilling robots and autonomous haul trucks that work fine without TN minerals in their control systems.
Posted by: paolot
« on: March 24, 2025, 09:14:51 AM »An automine, on the other hand, uses a less material–efficient mechanism that needs no direction or ingenuity to operate.
I reason just the opposite way: an AM uses the same hardware of a manned mine, but it needs a replacement of the man intelligence, using evolved computers and software, i.e. non-newtonian apparata that we can think are made of non-newtonian materials to correctly operate.
Just like a car with a human pilot, and a self-driving car. The two cars are the same, at their basis; the difference is in their "intelligence", i.e. a pilot vs. a dedicated computer + a good suite of sensors + a good telecom system to interact with the surroundings.
Posted by: db48x
« on: March 24, 2025, 01:59:46 AM »QuoteDoes a small computer use tons of materials , no it does not.
Computers, sensors and cameras, wires and servos to act the AM need materials different from only Corundium.
The lore says that the equipment we build is mostly made of common materials. Steel, copper, silicon, whatever. Only relatively small quantities of non–newtonian elements are required. The corundium we use in a mine is only needed for the parts of the mine that phase through the planet and scoop out the non–newtonian elements that have collected in its core. Apparently human labor or ingenuity can be used to direct the action of this mining equipment so that it collects non–newtonian elements effectively. An automine, on the other hand, uses a less material–efficient mechanism that needs no direction or ingenuity to operate.
Imagine the difference between a fishing pole and a weir. Both can catch trout, but one of them is operated by a person and the other is installed once and only needs the fish to be collected periodically. The fishing pole is light and portable, while the weir is not.
Posted by: paolot
« on: March 22, 2025, 06:01:21 PM »Quote
Does a small computer use tons of materials , no it does not.
Computers, sensors and cameras, wires and servos to act the AM need materials different from only Corundium.
So, 2 or 3 of every other material in the game + 120 Corundium can make an AM, IMHO. But, I think this doesn't assure us to be saved from Corundium scarcity.
With AM we have now, anyway, it seems to me that we mine Corundium just to mine other Corundium.
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... limited population ...
Until now, few times I lacked population. Maybe because I prefer to colonize other bodies quite slowly. Therefore, my manned mines usually have enough workers. But it also depends on the planets types that game generates (i.e. few vs. several good planets, with good starting conditions or easily terraformable).
Posted by: Andrew
« on: March 22, 2025, 03:19:28 PM »Why would it need different materials?
Does a small computer use tons of materials , no it does not.
If you were to reduce the amount of Corundium and instead add small amounts of other materials would it make a difference , yes it would. Running out of Corundium is not uncommon the other materials you mention are aquired in large quantities by accident and I have never run out of them, so it would make automated mines an easier choice to replace mines as they use less strageic materials and don't use your limited population.
Gallicite , occassionaly Duranium and once Neutronium I have run out of but only those and Corundium .
Does a small computer use tons of materials , no it does not.
If you were to reduce the amount of Corundium and instead add small amounts of other materials would it make a difference , yes it would. Running out of Corundium is not uncommon the other materials you mention are aquired in large quantities by accident and I have never run out of them, so it would make automated mines an easier choice to replace mines as they use less strageic materials and don't use your limited population.
Gallicite , occassionaly Duranium and once Neutronium I have run out of but only those and Corundium .
Posted by: paolot
« on: March 22, 2025, 02:30:12 PM »I am more and more perplexed about fabrication of an Automated Mine using only a double quantity of Corundium vs. a manned Mine.
Automation should need other materials, ones able to generate "automation": I can think it would need a bit of Uridium, Corbomite, Duranium, Mercassium, Boronide, together with the hardware made of Corundium.
I can't find discussions about this.
Thanks for your explanations.
Automation should need other materials, ones able to generate "automation": I can think it would need a bit of Uridium, Corbomite, Duranium, Mercassium, Boronide, together with the hardware made of Corundium.
I can't find discussions about this.
Thanks for your explanations.
Posted by: welchbloke
« on: March 19, 2025, 04:13:04 PM »Be my guest. It also isn't being caused by the 4 fleets that are all that's left of one of the spoiler races I encountered. I deleted them and it made no difference.So I've encountered the dreaded 5s increment issue again. I've had a look in the DB and set all of the NPRs to player races to check if there was a detection or interrupt message I was missing. There isn't anything obvious, not detections by any of the NPRs or my race that I can see. I've checked the fleets for all races and none of them appear to have open fire orders and no contacts (a common cause for this issue IIRC). Any suggestions from the collective on what else to check to see if I can work out what is causing it?
Welchbloke
I'd like to poke around in the db if you don't mind uploading it.
Welchbloke
Posted by: Kaiser
« on: March 19, 2025, 09:09:31 AM »I do not remember exactly what was but last time I had this issue, which went on for a while, I was fighting some enemies in different systems; it got suddenly solved when I re-encountered an enemy ship I was hunting for a while, so I had the suspect it had to do with this, maybe some sensor switched on and off or something.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: March 19, 2025, 08:50:02 AM »So I've encountered the dreaded 5s increment issue again. I've had a look in the DB and set all of the NPRs to player races to check if there was a detection or interrupt message I was missing. There isn't anything obvious, not detections by any of the NPRs or my race that I can see. I've checked the fleets for all races and none of them appear to have open fire orders and no contacts (a common cause for this issue IIRC). Any suggestions from the collective on what else to check to see if I can work out what is causing it?
Welchbloke
I'd like to poke around in the db if you don't mind uploading it.
Posted by: welchbloke
« on: March 18, 2025, 05:05:48 AM »Might be a stupid question, but have you clicked the Cease Fire All Ships button on the Tactical Map sidebar?Yes, for every race. It hasn't made any different unfortunately.
Welchbloke
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: March 18, 2025, 04:51:12 AM »Might be a stupid question, but have you clicked the Cease Fire All Ships button on the Tactical Map sidebar?
Posted by: welchbloke
« on: March 18, 2025, 04:49:57 AM »Damaged fire control left open?Doesn't look like it. I had captured some alien ships in a recent battle, but I checked and none of the DC appear to have been left on open fire (damaged or otherwise). I thought it might have been a zero pop alien colony appearing on their homeworld after I had captured it. I deleted the pop, but no effect. I also had another look at the event log, there is no event for any of the races, NPR or otherwise, that occurs when the 5s increment kicks in.
Welchbloke
