Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Mechanics => Topic started by: Adseria on April 22, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
-
The generic "safe greenhouse gas" has been removed, and carbon dioxide has been made a dangerous gas. Does this mean that there is now no good greenhouse gas, or am I missing something?
-
safe greenhouse gas is still there, just renamed to aestustium.
Anti Greenhouse gas is named Frigisium.
-
safe greenhouse gas is still there, just renamed to aestustium.
Anti Greenhouse gas is named Frigisium.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds... ::)
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds... ::)
It's dangerous because... it's dangerous past certain concentrations. You can have up to 0.5% of a planet's atmosphere be CO2 though. http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg101987#msg101987
I always laughed a bit when I read people posting about making Mars inhabitable without the Safe Greenhouse Gas. Instead the atmosphere'd be 20% CO2, whoops.
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds... ::)
Basic chemistry. Acidifying the bloodstream. Poisoning the body. Displacing the oxygen from red blood cells.
I guess that means basic biology as well.
Carbon dioxide in high concentrations is dangerous to oxygen-breathing life forms.
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds. . . ::)
Basic chemistry. Acidifying the bloodstream. Poisoning the body. Displacing the oxygen from red blood cells.
I guess that means basic biology as well.
Carbon dioxide in high concentrations is dangerous to oxygen-breathing life forms.
Yes but what uses C02 to create O2? Plants. Its dangerous to us humans. And to some plants in extremely high amounts. But if you are trying to terraform a world w/a high CO2 level. Then the best way to terraform it would be to transplant massive plants or just move chunks of forests or something.
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds... ::)
Basic chemistry. Acidifying the bloodstream. Poisoning the body. Displacing the oxygen from red blood cells.
I guess that means basic biology as well.
Carbon dioxide in high concentrations is dangerous to oxygen-breathing life forms.
Oxygen in high concentrations is dangerous to oxygen-breathing life forms. So guess it needs to be a dangerous gas as well? Basic chemistry afterall...
-
You're in luck Pedroig - oxygen IS a dangerous gas once the atmosphere of a body is more than 30% oxygen!
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
-
You're in luck Pedroig - oxygen IS a dangerous gas once the atmosphere of a body is more than 30% oxygen!
So is basically every other gas we breath on a daily basis. All of them should be labelled as dangerous honestly. But, its Steve's game. His decision.
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
I think its really stupid to make an entire world that is water honestly. I dont see much point in it. What are you going to do with it? Orbital fishing platforms or something?
-
Yes but what uses C02 to create O2? Plants. Its dangerous to us humans. And to some plants in extremely high amounts. But if you are trying to terraform a world w/a high CO2 level. Then the best way to terraform it would be to transplant massive plants or just move chunks of forests or something.
So who says 'terraforming to remove CO2' isn't adding massive amounts of plants? My TF installations are certainly spraying vast amounts of lichen, moss, and blue-green algae across the world.
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
And it does! Carbon Dioxide is only a dangerous gas above a certain concentration. . . exactly the same as Oxygen.
And if you add enough water vapour, it condenses out and alters the hydrosphere, eventually reducing the max population due to lack of living space.
-
Yes but what uses C02 to create O2? Plants. Its dangerous to us humans. And to some plants in extremely high amounts. But if you are trying to terraform a world w/a high CO2 level. Then the best way to terraform it would be to transplant massive plants or just move chunks of forests or something.
So who says 'terraforming to remove CO2' isn't adding massive amounts of plants? My TF installations are certainly spraying vast amounts of lichen, moss, and blue-green algae across the world.
You mean you don't:
(https://i.imgur.com/xyhNSS1.gif)
;D ;)
-
You're in luck Pedroig - oxygen IS a dangerous gas once the atmosphere of a body is more than 30% oxygen!
So is basically every other gas we breath on a daily basis. All of them should be labelled as dangerous honestly. But, its Steve's game. His decision.
Any gas that becomes dangerous in high enough concentrations is labelled dangerous at those concentrations.
Which is not all of them. Nitrogen, for example, never becomes dangerous. As long as a human gets enough oxygen, and the total atmospheric pressure doesn't exceed their capacity, the amount of nitrogen is irrelevent and non-toxic. Nitrogen dioxide, on the other hand. . .
-
I think its really stupid to make an entire world that is water honestly. I dont see much point in it. What are you going to do with it? Orbital fishing platforms or something?
Sponsored by McDonald's Filet-O-Fish.
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
I think its really stupid to make an entire world that is water honestly. I dont see much point in it. What are you going to do with it? Orbital fishing platforms or something?
Private swimming pool for myself, the God-Emperor of All Peoplekind, because I am an arrogant jerk like that.
Or maybe I'll build my throne room above it with a trapdoor like a Bond villain, and dispose of the advisors who annoy me into my world of sharks. Mwa-hah-hah!
-
You mean you don't:
<snipped picture>
;D ;)
Not only do I not, I also crash massive ice asteroids into my planets to build up the hydrosphere.
Darn them pesky Ice Pirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_Pirates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_Pirates) for stealing my precious water!
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
Feel free to look up Dihydrogen Monoxide. It makes for some interesting reading.
Any gas that becomes dangerous in high enough concentrations is labelled dangerous at those concentrations.
Which is not all of them. Nitrogen, for example, never becomes dangerous. As long as a human gets enough oxygen, and the total atmospheric pressure doesn't exceed their capacity, the amount of nitrogen is irrelevent and non-toxic. Nitrogen dioxide, on the other hand. . .
Ehm... nitrogen is pretty dangerous in high enough concentrations. Mostly because concentration as a term is kinda relative. The biggest issue with nitrogen is that it's an inert gas that can displace oxygen from a location, which is why there's a number of regulations regarding the use of and work in inert atmospheres, including nitrogen atmospheres because it's a colourless and odourless gas. People can and have died from entering a space with an inert nitrogen atmosphere where all the oxygen has been forced out and the nitrogen is used to maintain pressure and prevent the reentry of oxygen into the room.
-
We're talking on a global scale, here. Sure, you can asphyxiate on pretty much anything, if it's the only thing in a room.
Given that we're currently living in ~78% nitrogen, without people dying from it regularly, it seems pretty safe, by volume in an atmosphere.
-
Also, nitrogen narcosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis). You don't get symptoms from that until you're at an absolute pressure of at least a couple atmospheres, though, and it's apparently about 33 atmospheres to cause unconsciousness. But, as with anything, too much of it and it'll eventually kill you.
-
Not sure how CO2 became dangerous, guess there will be no plants on new worlds. . . ::)
Basic chemistry. Acidifying the bloodstream. Poisoning the body. Displacing the oxygen from red blood cells.
I guess that means basic biology as well.
Carbon dioxide in high concentrations is dangerous to oxygen-breathing life forms.
Yes but what uses C02 to create O2? Plants. Its dangerous to us humans. And to some plants in extremely high amounts. But if you are trying to terraform a world w/a high CO2 level. Then the best way to terraform it would be to transplant massive plants or just move chunks of forests or something.
"dangerous gases" aren't meant to indicate that an atmosphere is dangerous to a tree, it's dangerous to your primary species (which by the mechanics are generally land dwelling, oxygen-needing, carbon dioxide-expelling creatures, though I'd like to see more mechanical support in future for different kinds of races eg. aquatic).
-
You're in luck Pedroig - oxygen IS a dangerous gas once the atmosphere of a body is more than 30% oxygen!
So is basically every other gas we breath on a daily basis. All of them should be labelled as dangerous honestly. But, its Steve's game. His decision.
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter...
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
Ah, I believe you guys didn't get it - Steve has made Oxygen dangerous for humans in Aurora. If Oxygen makes up 30% or more of the atmosphere, you need infrastructure for your colony, meaning that people walk around in space suits. Same if CO2 is more than 0.5% of atmosphere or Chlorine is more than 0.005% - he didn't just pick these things and the corresponding amounts out of thin air.
-
Whenever I look this stuff Up I'm 90% certain I'm landing on the same sources steve gets his numbers from.
Osha has a 0.5% limit for 5 hours, with 3% being the absolute maximum allowable for 10 minutes. 4% is considered threatening to life and limb. Those numbers are probably similar in Aurora.
-
I was wondering, shouldn't the dangerous gas concentration be absolute pressures instead of % of atmosphere? If I remember my chemistry right it's partial pressures of the gas that determines the chemical reaction, and other gases are irrelevant (as long they don't play a role in the chemical reaction or a competing one).
So I think a 0.2 bar atmosphere that is 100% oxygen would probably be totally fine, while a 3 bar atmosphere with 25% Oxygen and 75% Nitrogen most likely probably cause issues.
-
On another thread i linked a chart showing the pressure where oxygen becomes dangerous. At 1 Atmosphere you can get past 30% before starting to suffer neurological symptoms. I dont recall the exact numbers but scuba diving is done at higher than normal pressure and as it gets higher you need to reduce the oxygen.
Whats unusual is you can get almost up to 100 atmospheres but by then you're breathing hydrogen with a teeny bit of oxygen and some other stuff. And its impossible to avoid minor neurological symptoms, its like being stoned, very dangerous.
-
Yes, so same logic should apply to CO2 or for Water for that matter. . .
Chlorine is a dangerous gas. It gets warning labels and everything. ;)
Everything else, moderation is key, too much of anything can be dangerous to living, and a small set of those life needs a minimum amount to survive.
Feel free to look up Dihydrogen Monoxide. It makes for some interesting reading.
Any gas that becomes dangerous in high enough concentrations is labelled dangerous at those concentrations.
Which is not all of them. Nitrogen, for example, never becomes dangerous. As long as a human gets enough oxygen, and the total atmospheric pressure doesn't exceed their capacity, the amount of nitrogen is irrelevent and non-toxic. Nitrogen dioxide, on the other hand. . .
Ehm. . . nitrogen is pretty dangerous in high enough concentrations. Mostly because concentration as a term is kinda relative. The biggest issue with nitrogen is that it's an inert gas that can displace oxygen from a location, which is why there's a number of regulations regarding the use of and work in inert atmospheres, including nitrogen atmospheres because it's a colourless and odourless gas. People can and have died from entering a space with an inert nitrogen atmosphere where all the oxygen has been forced out and the nitrogen is used to maintain pressure and prevent the reentry of oxygen into the room.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is especially bad if it gets in the lungs!
-
Dihydrogen Monoxide is especially bad if it gets in the lungs!
I think you mean Hydrogen Hydroxide.