Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Suggestions => Topic started by: Borealis4x on January 07, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
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Maybe its just me, but I've never researched any of the body-modification techs that make up the vast majority of the Biology tech tree. After researching all the Infantry Upgrades, I assign all but my 2 most capable biologists to other fields since they'll only ever be researching terraforming upgrades from then on.
That is a shame since I think biology could be good for a number of upgrades that would vastly improve your empire overall, like the construction/production tree. Here is a list of suggestions:
1. Triage Technology: Each level increases the amount of casualties returned to their units after battle and increases the chances of officers and crew escaping from ships alive. Also reduces the chances of officers being killed in accidents.
2. Healthcare Technology: Increases the lifespan of your leaders and reduces the chances they develop health issues.
3. Medical Technology: Increases the population growth rate.
4. Viral Agents: An alternative to using missiles or beam weapons to clear out an enemy planet. Viral Agents are launched from specialized bomb-bays requiring the ship to be in orbit of the target, causing no damage on their own but introducing a viral agent that will slowly (relative to bombardment) clear out the planet population and garrison without damaging the planet or infrastructure. Viral Agents are designed in the component designer and each agent needs to be custom made for each species you encounter, with the option to do so presenting after you conduct an autopsy. Using viral agents have a serious effect on you relations with any empires in contact with you or the target. Viral Agents would have two components; Viral Agent Potency, and Viral Agent Target (both researched in Biology).
5. More options to upgrade infantry genetic enchantments. It could be split into three different upgrades; Health, Stamina, and Reflexes. Health increases health, much like the existing enchantments do now. Stamina increases the shots they can take per turn (they don't have to rest as often). Reflexes increases the damage done per shot to reflect better accuracy.
I think adding at least the first three of these will greatly flesh out the biology tree and make it a more useful field worthy of investing in. What do you think of these suggestions and is there anything you'd like to add?
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I guess while we are at it, i could throw some ideas in that i came up when i suggested an addition to the tree a week ago.
Xenoflora Study (Increases habitability/Decreases Colony Cost in worlds that could sustain it.)
Xenofauna study (Decreases Colony Cost, Decreases the amount of infrastructure needed on terraformed worlds. Not sure how this would work but its an idea.)
Gene-Modded Animals (Havent thought if what this could do yet.)
Will edit if i think of anything else.
Edit: I also really like your suggestions, especially the Viral Agents one. I would love to be able to orbitally bombard planets with viruses.
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I guess while we are at it, i could throw some ideas in that i came up when i suggested an addition to the tree a week ago.
Xenoflora Study (Increases habitability/Decreases Colony Cost in worlds that could sustain it.)
Xenofauna study (Decreases Colony Cost, Decreases the amount of infrastructure needed on terraformed worlds. Not sure how this would work but its an idea.)
Gene-Modded Animals (Havent thought if what this could do yet.)
Will edit if i think of anything else.
Edit: I also really like your suggestions, especially the Viral Agents one. I would love to be able to orbitally bombard planets with viruses.
Decreasing colony cost is already a tech, though I forget which field it is in. Logistics?
Logistics is pretty overstuffed, so moving it to Biology/genetics might not be a bad idea.
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Just having Healthcare or Medical tech as described would really up the importance of the biology tree.
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Planet specific research that would lower col cost would be great. For when you cant quite reach 0. If it would be flat change with lets say 4 tiers and final one costing 10k RP and giving -2 col cost, it would definitely be worth it.
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Planet specific research that would lower col cost would be great. For when you cant quite reach 0. If it would be flat change with lets say 4 tiers and final one costing 10k RP and giving -2 col cost, it would definitely be worth it.
There is a colony cost reduction line already in another category that can reduce it up to 50%.
But planet specific techs could be cool even if I'm dubious regarding this specific use case.
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I agree, the bio tree really needs a refresh, ideally all the non-implemented species gene modding techs would be removed, and as a quick fix a few other techs from other trees could be moved to the bio specialization until some of these ideas were implemented, e.g. the colony cost reduction tech could easily be a bio tech. More infantry gene mods have been discussed and I think are well-received in that discussion. Medical technology to boost population growth and reduce casualties sounds excellent. Another idea would be a tech line that very slightly over time reduces crew quarters requirements, although this is a fairly minor contribution to ship tonnage eventually it would help free space for an extra weapon or sensor here and there.
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I guess while we are at it, i could throw some ideas in that i came up when i suggested an addition to the tree a week ago.
Xenoflora Study (Increases habitability/Decreases Colony Cost in worlds that could sustain it.)
Xenofauna study (Decreases Colony Cost, Decreases the amount of infrastructure needed on terraformed worlds. Not sure how this would work but its an idea.)
Gene-Modded Animals (Havent thought if what this could do yet.)
Will edit if i think of anything else.
Edit: I also really like your suggestions, especially the Viral Agents one. I would love to be able to orbitally bombard planets with viruses.
Decreasing colony cost is already a tech, though I forget which field it is in. Logistics?
Logistics is pretty overstuffed, so moving it to Biology/genetics might not be a bad idea.
Yeah, I always wondered why Colony Cost reduction was in there along with everything else. Though I assumed it just meant Annual Wealth Cost not Infrastructure cost which seems more like a Construction/Production tech than a Biology one.
I agree, the bio tree really needs a refresh, ideally all the non-implemented species gene modding techs would be removed, and as a quick fix a few other techs from other trees could be moved to the bio specialization until some of these ideas were implemented, e.g. the colony cost reduction tech could easily be a bio tech. More infantry gene mods have been discussed and I think are well-received in that discussion. Medical technology to boost population growth and reduce casualties sounds excellent. Another idea would be a tech line that very slightly over time reduces crew quarters requirements, although this is a fairly minor contribution to ship tonnage eventually it would help free space for an extra weapon or sensor here and there.
For crew-tech reduction, I'd rather have a completely new tree of research dedicated to computing systems and automation. While its understanable that drones are not included in the game since it came about during a time they weren't in the Zeitgeist, their absence is very conspicuous nowadays. But thats a thread for another time...
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Honestly Steve could adapt what you said about the colony cost stuff into the wording i was using. if he wanted to that is.
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To be honest I think we need to get into Steve's mind to understand what are his priorities as this is his game after all. I don't want to do that and I will just follow him as until now he hasn't "failed" me yet.
So with the above in mind, I think that the biology tech could just be refurbished with the below as already suggested also by other players:
Move the current Troop Capability techs under Biology: so you are kind of modifying their genes (rather than provide some sort of equipment as now?)
Move the colonization reduction techs under Biology: same as the above
Regarding the existing Gene Modification, if Steve will bring them back then good, otherwise, just the above will give some meaning back to a tech that, as per current state, could be EASILY deleted for good moving the Terraforming techs under Logistics.
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I agree with this. But whatever he decides, im cool with.
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Move the current Troop Capability techs under Biology: so you are kind of modifying their genes (rather than provide some sort of equipment as now?)
I'd rather not Troop Capability techs go under biology to implying you are modifying your soldiers genetic structure rather than their loadout and training. I don't think that sort of stuff would fit with a lot of people's preconceptions of what their Empire and army are like.
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Move the current Troop Capability techs under Biology: so you are kind of modifying their genes (rather than provide some sort of equipment as now?)
I'd rather not Troop Capability techs go under biology to implying you are modifying your soldiers genetic structure rather than their loadout and training. I don't think that sort of stuff would fit with a lot of people's preconceptions of what their Empire and army are like.
Yeah I always saw it as training/equipment. Had no idea people thought it was genetic modification especially when modern militaries often have various training programs for different terrains.
I guess the fact that almost all are infantry only?
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Move the current Troop Capability techs under Biology: so you are kind of modifying their genes (rather than provide some sort of equipment as now?)
I'd rather not Troop Capability techs go under biology to implying you are modifying your soldiers genetic structure rather than their loadout and training. I don't think that sort of stuff would fit with a lot of people's preconceptions of what their Empire and army are like.
Yeah I always saw it as training/equipment. Had no idea people thought it was genetic modification especially when modern militaries often have various training programs for different terrains.
I guess the fact that almost all are infantry only?
I know guys and I agree with you but this could be seen both ways. Either you are genetically engineering your soldiers or you are researching new equipment's. The biological tech is just an enabler then, you can RP the way you like it. I am just trying to revive the tech that, as I have already said, at the moment it does not have reason to exist.
I still believe such equipment will have to be with some biological/genetic foundations as an engineer has no idea of the human body reactions under certain stress and/or conditions but can only work following specifications provided.
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Keeping it as 2 separate researches would be better. As I said, Biology one would be flat bonus on one planet. As is you just cant make titan habitable, not even with max col reduction tech. This would allow you to take those few worlds that can come close and push them over the line. Or to develop massive col cost 2 world that just isn't feasible to terraform in reasonable time either due to distance or terraforming settings you have.
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Keeping it as 2 separate researches would be better. As I said, Biology one would be flat bonus on one planet. As is you just cant make titan habitable, not even with max col reduction tech. This would allow you to take those few worlds that can come close and push them over the line. Or to develop massive col cost 2 world that just isn't feasible to terraform in reasonable time either due to distance or terraforming settings you have.
Exactly.
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Move the current Troop Capability techs under Biology: so you are kind of modifying their genes (rather than provide some sort of equipment as now?)
I'd rather not Troop Capability techs go under biology to implying you are modifying your soldiers genetic structure rather than their loadout and training. I don't think that sort of stuff would fit with a lot of people's preconceptions of what their Empire and army are like.
Yeah I always saw it as training/equipment. Had no idea people thought it was genetic modification especially when modern militaries often have various training programs for different terrains.
I guess the fact that almost all are infantry only?
I know guys and I agree with you but this could be seen both ways. Either you are genetically engineering your soldiers or you are researching new equipment's. The biological tech is just an enabler then, you can RP the way you like it. I am just trying to revive the tech that, as I have already said, at the moment it does not have reason to exist.
I still believe such equipment will have to be with some biological/genetic foundations as an engineer has no idea of the human body reactions under certain stress and/or conditions but can only work following specifications provided.
Just because its in Ground Units doesn't mean their can't be a genetic modification aspect to upgrades from an RP perspective. However, to put such techs in Biology would basically insist to the player that genetic modification plays a big role for said upgrades. Of course you don't have to acknowledge it personally, but keeping such tech in Ground Units better facilitates RPing for all types of Empires.
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Planet specific research that would lower col cost would be great. For when you cant quite reach 0. If it would be flat change with lets say 4 tiers and final one costing 10k RP and giving -2 col cost, it would definitely be worth it.
I think the cost is too high and the benefit is too low but in general I like this idea so I wish to express support for it.
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You need to consider how strong of a benefit this is early on.
Moon is col cost 2. Mars could be made near habitable within few years too.
If you do 1k, 3k, 5k and 10k research, it would be 19k RP to get habitable world very early into the game.
Btw, if this was a thing, removing required LG infra from asteroids would be nice. With let's say second tier of research, so it can be used a bit more.
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I guess while we are at it, i could throw some ideas in that i came up when i suggested an addition to the tree a week ago.
(...)
Gene-Modded Animals (Havent thought if what this could do yet.)
I love OP's ideas and would like at least the first four implemented. Imo, gene-modded animals/plants could be used to lower the percentage of the Farming and Life Support sector in colonies (if that seems too OP, then maybe either have it only apply when Col. Cost is above X or something. Unless you want to lower a fraction of a percentage instead of a flat percentage).
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I mean that doesnt affect much besides how many people work in those sectors and how much the planet generates civilian sector stuff doesnt it? That could be an good idea.
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Difference between 5% and 0% is quite massive. On midgame earth, that's 50m extra workers. 1000 factories worth.
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Difference between 5% and 0% is quite massive. On midgame earth, that's 50m extra workers. 1000 factories worth.
That is a fair point. I was thinking a ~0.20% flat reduction for each tech or a "big steps" tech with >=0.5% for each 3 engine tech interval (maybe starting with Ion) if we are going for the straight flat percent. The other options are a fraction of a percent like 4% reduction on Farming and Life Support per level of tech if we are going for "always applies" (which leads to 5%-5%*tech*0,04), or a bigger number if we are going for "If FaLS%>X%" (X being a number above 5%). The point is that to reach the lowest of numbers even in the generous ones requires borderline Photonic or something.
If you find a better implementation then do not hesitate to share it!
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I can't remember which 4x space game I played that had this, but what if there were random planetary/system/empire wide plagues that must be cured (toggled on/off in game settings)? I like the idea of having to design a hospital ship or a hospital ground team that you have to deploy. Also, I like the idea of having to research the cure for each plague before getting rid of it completely. Of course, this idea might be too on the nose given the current ongoing global...situation.
Also, I like the idea of adding research to increase growth rate somehow. It would give us another option other than assigning governors or just moving pops to new colonies. I suppose the medical ship or facility in my first idea could go along with that, but it could also be a flat bonus research sort of like the terraforming rate increase. It would be kind of neat if those research projects were things like "Cure Cancer" as that would be incredibly satisfying in my opinion, though I suppose it would make it kind of opinionated as you don't always have to play as human, so alternatively, it could be "Cloning" "Prolong Serum" etc. Edit: Ran into this thread shortly after posting this: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12225.0
Thirdly, there could be research to increase the max pop for your colonies as there isn't any mechanic that already does that, as far as I know. It would be awesome if there was end game tech that allows you to move planets, modify suns, etc. in order to make planets even more suitable (without going into SM), but that's out of scope for this thread.
Lastly, (and this is really for Steve if he happens to read this :) ) I would love if gene modification was reimplemented as I love the idea of having thin boned and tall asteroid people and thick/thicc heavy worlders.
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I can't remember which 4x space game I played that had this, but what if there were random planetary/system/empire wide plagues that must be cured (toggled on/off in game settings)? I like the idea of having to design a hospital ship or a hospital ground team that you have to deploy. Also, I like the idea of having to research the cure for each plague before getting rid of it completely. Of course, this idea might be too on the nose given the current ongoing global...situation.
Also, I like the idea of adding research to increase growth rate somehow. It would give us another option other than assigning governors or just moving pops to new colonies. I suppose the medical ship or facility in my first idea could go along with that, but it could also be a flat bonus research sort of like the terraforming rate increase. It would be kind of neat if those research projects were things like "Cure Cancer" as that would be incredibly satisfying in my opinion, though I suppose it would make it kind of opinionated as you don't always have to play as human, so alternatively, it could be "Cloning" "Prolong Serum" etc. Edit: Ran into this thread shortly after posting this: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12225.0
Thirdly, there could be research to increase the max pop for your colonies as there isn't any mechanic that already does that, as far as I know. It would be awesome if there was end game tech that allows you to move planets, modify suns, etc. in order to make planets even more suitable (without going into SM), but that's out of scope for this thread.
Lastly, (and this is really for Steve if he happens to read this :) ) I would love if gene modification was reimplemented as I love the idea of having thin boned and tall asteroid people and thick/thicc heavy worlders.
Haha. I was wondering if you were going to run into my thread on this topic as well.
I like your suggestions by the way.
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I can't remember which 4x space game I played that had this, but what if there were random planetary/system/empire wide plagues that must be cured (toggled on/off in game settings)?
Sounds like Space Empires
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Thirdly, there could be research to increase the max pop for your colonies as there isn't any mechanic that already does that, as far as I know.
There is no way to increase the living space of a planet right now, but I think tech that does should go under construction. It'd be about building megastructures that can house millions of people at once, like arcrologies.
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Thirdly, there could be research to increase the max pop for your colonies as there isn't any mechanic that already does that, as far as I know.
There is no way to increase the living space of a planet right now, but I think tech that does should go under construction. It'd be about building megastructures that can house millions of people at once, like arcrologies.
Oh but there is through orbital habitats. I build 2.5bn ton (1bn capacity) "ringworlds" around major worlds. Even the agriculture % adapts to the presence of orbital capacity.
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I would love to be able to make megastructures like Arcologies.
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Thirdly, there could be research to increase the max pop for your colonies as there isn't any mechanic that already does that, as far as I know.
There is no way to increase the living space of a planet right now, but I think tech that does should go under construction. It'd be about building megastructures that can house millions of people at once, like arcrologies.
Oh but there is through orbital habitats. I build 2.5bn ton (1bn capacity) "ringworlds" around major worlds. Even the agriculture % adapts to the presence of orbital capacity.
I did not know that orbital habitats effectively increase the pop limit! I mean, it makes sense, but I didn't know it actually worked that way in the game.