Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Bureau of Design => Topic started by: Xanithas on April 25, 2023, 10:06:30 PM
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Hello all,
I am advancing in my game a fair bit and have secured a good bit of territory while at war with one NPR and being attacked intermittently by the Star Swarm. I have found that static jump point defenses are starting to become necessary to cover approached into key systems I don't have full control over yet and don't want to leave a large number of warships in but wanted to know if I am on the right track.
Starting with the defense bases, I opted for two twin 25cm Laser turrets mounted with a sensor to allow it to operate even if the sensor bouys deployed at all of my jump points are disabled. I opted for the 5k size as it allows me to use my Prelate class carrier, which I already was using to cover logistics convoys, to bring the defense stations where I want to put them and carry them away for repair and maintenance (as I haven't found a better way to overhaul them, they get towed to the nearest planet with maintenance capabilities for overhaul every 10 years). My current deployment tactic is to group them in sets of 4 at all the cardinal directions surrounding the jump point at about 250km to allow for a slight overlap in fields of fire but cover the max amount of space surrounding the jump point. This can mean that ships can move into areas outside the range of at least half sometimes 3 of the stations but I fear putting them close together makes them vulnerable to fire. I am finding to counter the majority of inbound traffic they do fine, but significant numbers of small craft / single extremely large ships (25+k tonnes) push them over.
Gatekeeper class Orbital Defence Base 5,000 tons 152 Crew 2,093.4 BP TCS 100 TH 0 EM 0
1 km/s Armour 10-26 Shields 0-0 HTK 52 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 4 PPV 37.44
Maint Life 11.35 Years MSP 8,761 AFR 50% IFR 0.7% 1YR 125 5YR 1,872 Max Repair 537.56 MSP
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 2 BRG AUX
Intended Deployment Time: 120 months Morale Check Required
Twin Kratos Defence 25.0cm FXR Naval Grade Laser Turret (2x2) Range 384,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 32-16 RM 80,000 km ROF 10
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MKIII (1) Max Range: 384,000 km TS: 10,000 km/s 97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
General Electric ICFR P10 (3) Total Power Output 30 Exp 5%
General Electric ICFR P3 (1) Total Power Output 3 Exp 5%
Lockheed-Martin "Thunderhead" SASS (1) GPS 1800 Range 69.2m km Resolution 10
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes
Prelate class Auxiliary Carrier 50,000 tons 481 Crew 3,212.6 BP TCS 1,000 TH 5,000 EM 0
5000 km/s Armour 1-120 Shields 0-0 HTK 86 Sensors 1/1/0/0 DCR 1 PPV 0
MSP 30,040 Max Repair 625 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10,000 tons Magazine 1,000 Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 15
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 2 BRG AUX
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Flight Crew Berths 200
Atlas Engines Limited 50kt CIFD HS200 P.5 EP2500.00 (2) Power 5000 Fuel Use 1.19% Signature 2500 Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,469,000 Litres Range 749.5 billion km (1735 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 125,000 litres per hour Complete Refuel 19 hours
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigational Sensor MK II (1) GPS 360 Range 30.9m km Resolution 10
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Sensor MK II (1) Sensitivity 1.8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EMl Sensor MK II (1) Sensitivity 1.8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10.6m km
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Carrier for auto-assignment purposes
Now the primary reason I posted here, I have recently encountered the star swarm and when their formations jump through a protected jump point they are able to overwhelm my defense stations with their numbers while suffering comparatively light losses and also with their massive speed run outside my max range with ease. To counter this I designed a deep space fighter base which I am unsure if I took the correct tack on. I choose to make the base a actual space station to allow for more swift construction and deployment, and I didn't see any value in making in in a civilian shipyard / military shipyard however if I missed something critical I am still able to change the design to be an actual "ship." The fighters onboard are designed to cover two range brackets, the Hornet, for extremely close to the jump point under the guns of the defense bases and primarily designed to exploit damage caused by the defense bastions and dragoons particle beams to score lots of critical hits on damaged ships of just hammer their target down through shear volume of fire. The Dragoon on the other hand is designed to follow beyond the range of the defense stations and attack from what I assess to be beyond the range of the enemy craft to return fire.
Bulwark class Fighter Base 60,634 tons 572 Crew 2,747.9 BP TCS 1,213 TH 0 EM 0
1 km/s No Armour Shields 0-0 HTK 77 Sensors 14/14/0/0 DCR 1 PPV 0
MSP 10,028 Max Repair 120 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 16,000 tons
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 2 BRG PFC
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Flight Crew Berths 320
Repair Capacity: 1000 tons
Maintenance Modules: 5 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 16,000 tons
Fuel Capacity 5,000,000 Litres Range N/A
FURUNO Station Grade Thermal Proximity Sensor (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
FURUNO Station Grade EM Proximity Sensor (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
Strike Group
6x Dragoon Fast Attack Craft Speed: 20000 km/s Size: 20
40x Hornet MK I Fighter Speed: 28044 km/s Size: 5
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes
This design is classed as a Carrier for auto-assignment purposes
Hornet MK I class Fighter 250 tons 2 Crew 131.3 BP TCS 5 TH 140 EM 0
28044 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 HTK 1 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0 PPV 1.65
Maint Life 2.97 Years MSP 55 AFR 50% IFR 0.7% 1YR 9 5YR 139 Max Repair 70.06 MSP
Lieutenant Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 0.9 days Morale Check Required
Panavia Spacecraft FIFD HS1.9 P2.95 EP140.12 (1) Power 140.1 Fuel Use 1028.73% Signature 140.12 Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres Range 0.7 billion km (6 hours at full power)
Rheinmetall Arms RA-1 Stinger 10cm Cannon (1x2) Range 40,000km TS: 28,044 km/s Power 1.5-1.5 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
Rheinmetall Arms RA-1 Stinger 10cm Cannon SBFC (1) Max Range: 57,600 km TS: 28,000 km/s 83 65 48 31 13 0 0 0 0 0
General Electric SCAM P1.5 (1) Total Power Output 1.5 Exp 5%
Thyssenkrupp AG Extra Small Missile Detection Sensor (1) GPS 4 Range 4.5m km MCR 408.7k km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Fighter for auto-assignment purposes
Dragoon class Fast Attack Craft 1,000 tons 26 Crew 532.1 BP TCS 20 TH 400 EM 0
20000 km/s Armour 2-8 Shields 0-0 HTK 8 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0 PPV 8
Maint Life 1.62 Years MSP 96 AFR 40% IFR 0.6% 1YR 43 5YR 642 Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Lieutenant Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days Morale Check Required
Isotta Fraschini FAC Class SIFD HS6.4 P2.5 EP400.00 (1) Power 400.0 Fuel Use 370.58% Signature 400.00 Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 73,000 Litres Range 3.55 billion km (49 hours at full power)
CERN Naval Grade Particle Beam MK II (6) (1) Range 240,000km TS: 20,000 km/s Power 15-8 ROF 10
CERN "Chevalier" Fixed Naval Partical Beam SBFC (1) Max Range: 240,000 km TS: 20,000 km/s 96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
General Electric SCAM P8 (1) Total Power Output 8.2 Exp 5%
Thyssenkrupp AG Extra Small Missile Detection Sensor (1) GPS 4 Range 4.5m km MCR 408.7k km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a FAC for auto-assignment purposes
I would greatly appreciate any feedback you may have, this is my first time making static defense stations and while these seem good in theory I might be completely off the mark.
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Your approach looks generally reasonable. Personally I don't like using static defense stations as they have numerous weaknesses, but if you must use them this seems like a reasonable approach. As you see, each kind of station has different strengths and weaknesses, beam defenses for example can be evaded or swarmed, while missile bases are vulnerable at close range before they can get off enough salvos.
A couple of points:
- I would consider changing your JP defense arrangement to clusters of stations set at 60 degree rather than 90 degree angles from each other around the jump point. Even with fewer stations per cluster this will eliminate most of the holes in your fire envelope and mean fewer ships in a JP assault can evade your fire immediately.
- For the particular problem you discuss, you might consider missile-armed bases with low-resolution fire controls. Missile bases can do very well against the sort of small craft you are concerned about as you can get off many small salvos while the enemy crosses the several million km distance and pick off most of the enemy in this way. Missiles in general are quite suited for JP defense as small groups from squadron jumps will have limited PD fire while you are not limited in ability to concentrate fire, as long as your missiles arrive before the enemy formation coalesces.
- Fighter bases are probably the least effective type of defense station in a tactical sense, since there is some redundancy in tonnage by having the base and the fighters in it. The main advantage is flexibility as you can in principle easily change the loadout of a fighter base by changing its fighters. I would probably prefer to look into other options, including deploying actual warships, if I have a specific problem to solve, whereas for general purposes without a specific threat in mind a fighter base is a much stronger option as you can quickly adapt to any threat which arises.
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I guess any way which works is a good way, especially against the swarm. Each to their own. I am replying out of sympathy because my current game involves a similar situation.
These are all interesting ideas. I like the Hornets, will have to think about that. I went missile research because I set Raiders to 0 systems so had to defend from the earliest era of the game and could not at first do so effectively using direct fire weapons alone. For more info please see my reports in the Spoilers subforum.
I am predominantly using missiles, high endurance / mid speed box launcher fighters and platforms to defend strategic JPs. Shhh the walls have ears... and possibly mandibles where these guys are concerned!
After some historic battles, including a salutory defeat and very close victory against an overwhelming force, a faster fighter-bomber box launcher design was developed to seek and destroy, accompanied by recon fighters, in a strategy of preemptive attrition.
The issue with box launched missiles is reload time. Its a one shot deal and in defence, if you dont take them all down, you lose. In attack if you are not fast enough to get away, you lose, which limits search range. The missiles are also resource hogs.
Their value though is the massive alpha strike they can potentially deliver at significantly greater range than beam weapons which makes JP coverage possible from a single location.
The rules are changing in 2.2 but for 2.1.1 I tried this mid range design as my first S&D fighter.
Mesh class Fighter-bomber 500 tons 12 Crew 118.7 BP TCS 10 TH 129 EM 0
12936 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 HTK 2 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0 PPV 2.6
Maint Life 8.37 Years MSP 134 AFR 20% IFR 0.3% 1YR 3 5YR 51 Max Repair 64.6 MSP
Magazine 17
Seeker Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 37 months Morale Check Required
Nova MCF5 P129.2 (1) Power 129.2 Fuel Use 305.63% Signature 129.2 Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 39,000 Litres Range 4.6 billion km (4 days at full power)
Hard Point (10) Missile Size: 1.7 Hangar Reload 65 minutes MF Reload 10 hours
Honeyguide (1) Range 5.4m km Resolution 1
Tyrant's Teacher Quick (10) Speed: 57,177 km/s End: 0.3m Range: 1.1m km WH: 7 Size: 1.7 TH: 419/251/125
Hive (1) GPS 30 Range 6.5m km Resolution 14
Payload "Tyrant's Teacher Quick" was specially designed to break through critical defensive formations by overwhelming tracking with ordnance speed and reduce formation effectiveness by targeting and rendering incompetent key elements of the formation one by one, in accordance with the strategy of attrition.
And this is a fighter class mobile orbital defence platform in which engines are sacrificed for alpha strike.
Cloud Flower class Orbital Defence Platform 500 tons 2 Crew 72.2 BP TCS 10 TH 1 EM 0
120 km/s Armour 4-5 Shields 0-0 HTK 1 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0 PPV 6.5
Maint Life 26.48 Years MSP 99 AFR 20% IFR 0.3% 1YR 0 5YR 4 Max Repair 5 MSP
Magazine 42.5
Seeker Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 421 months Morale Check Required
Thruster 1.2 (1) Power 1.2 Fuel Use 13.94% Signature 1.2 Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 12,000 Litres Range 31 billion km (2988 days at full power)
Hard Point (25) Missile Size: 1.7 Hangar Reload 65 minutes MF Reload 10 hours
Honeyguide (5) Range 5.4m km Resolution 1
Tyrant's Judge III LR (25) Speed: 44,057 km/s End: 0.8m Range: 2.1m km WH: 8 Size: 1.607 TH: 337/202/101
Karna (1) GPS 3 Range 2.7m km MCR 244k km Resolution 1
Though for convenience, after a hostile slipped through the sensor net before defenders could fire, key JPs were mined with heavy missile buoys which are yet to be tested in battle.
Bungelo Mine sensors base. (Named after the Pied Piper folktale. A street in Hamelin named Bungelosenstrasse ("street without drums") is believed to be the last place that the children were seen. Ever since, music or dancing is not allowed on this street.)
Missile Size: 3.425 MSP (8.5625 Tons) Warhead: 0 Radiation Damage: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s Fuel: 175 1st Stage Flight Time: 1 seconds 1st Stage Range: 0k km
2nd Stage Flight Time: 41 seconds 2nd Stage Range: 1,734.2k km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.35 EM Sensitivity Modifier: 14
Resolution: 10 Maximum Range vs 500 ton object (or larger): 2,690,642 km
Cost Per Missile: 8.4312 Development Cost: 459
Second Stage: Bungelo II x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 1,190,000 km
Bungelo II payload.
Missile Size: 3.00 MSP (7.500 Tons) Warhead: 16 Radiation Damage: 16 Manoeuvre Rating: 22
Speed: 42,400 km/s Fuel: 175 Flight Time: 40.9 seconds Range: 1,734,160 km
Cost Per Missile: 7.8712 Development Cost: 443
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 932.8% 3k km/s 310.9% 5k km/s 186.6% 10k km/s 93.3%
Am currently experimenting with maintenance stations at planetary or deep space populations to remove the need for overhauls.
Violet Windmill class Support Base 42,457 tons 439 Crew 1,164.5 BP TCS 849 TH 0 EM 0
1 km/s No Armour Shields 0-0 HTK 64 Sensors 14/14/0/0 DCR 1 PPV 0
MSP 3,017 Max Repair 100 MSP
Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3 Tractor Beam
Seeker Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Maintenance Modules: 8 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 20,000 tons
Observer (1) GPS 28 Range 11.2m km MCR 1m km Resolution 1
Deepest Heat (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
Yin (1) Sensitivity 14 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 29.6m km
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes
This design is classed as a Maintenance Ship for auto-assignment purposes
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In the past I usually create a cheap "patrol" class of ship that would work well in a situation like this. I give it 2-5 years of deployment and slow, but efficient engines. I believe the last one I made was about half the speed. I would do a PD version and a anti ship version. Logistically it's a lot simpler vs static bases. Easier to retrofit, refuel, overhaul or move. I tended to keep these in service a lot longer too as their role works well for even outdated ships. If there is a actual incursion somewhere, my A team fleet comes out...
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Thank you both for the feedback! I am not good at missiles and tend to avoid them but given the general consensus that they are the most effective I threw together a base to employ some but I am interested in feedback, especially on the missiles themselves. I know box launchers are technically the best bang for my buck when it comes to producing volumes of fire but in this instance I feel that I am looking for something more in the Rate of Fire department as I assess I wouldn't need too many missiles to turn star swarm fighter craft into dust and the jumpshock should render them nearly defenseless for a short time. Additionally I looked at boolyboolys post and designed a mine / mine layer as well. Again I would appreciate it if I could get a sanity check, especially with the missiles.
The Ballista was my take on your feedback that a missile base might be the best choice. My intention is to station these 5M from the jump point in pairs and have them fire missiles in groups of 2 at enemy craft. I went with a pretty chunky missile as I will only get a few shots before they can return fire so I figured I should make them count
Ballista class Missile Base 5,000 tons 184 Crew 807.6 BP TCS 100 TH 0 EM 0
1 km/s Armour 1-26 Shields 0-0 HTK 50 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 3 PPV 48
Maint Life 11.41 Years MSP 2,672 AFR 67% IFR 0.9% 1YR 38 5YR 565 Max Repair 110 MSP
Magazine 452
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 2 BRG AUX
Intended Deployment Time: 120 months Morale Check Required
Longbow Strike Missile VLS (6) Missile Size: 8.00 Rate of Fire 20
Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace "Archer" Longbow MFC (3) Range 12.8m km Resolution 1
Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace Longbow Strike Missile (54) Speed: 90,000 km/s End: 1.9m Range: 10.4m km WH: 9 Size: 8 TH: 330/198/99
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes
This is the missile they use, the Longbow was something I cooked up a while back to make some fighter bombers and started to build the missiles before I decided to shelve the idea when the NPR I encountered had a thing for AMMs.....
Missile Size: 8.0000 MSP (20.00000 Tons) Warhead: 12 Radiation Damage: 12 Manoeuvre Rating: 11
Speed: 112,500 km/s Fuel: 1,171 Flight Time: 2 minutes Range: 13.8m km
Cost Per Missile: 25.580384 Development Cost: 799
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1237.5% 3k km/s 412.5% 5k km/s 247.5% 10k km/s 123.8%
Reading about your idea of a Mine was down right inspiring, I build buoys before but a mine literally never occurred to me. I threw this together and then realized I have little practical idea of how to use them. My plan is to drop them on the jump point but if I understand them correctly they will all target the same ship so its best to space them out so I will work out a pattern for them at some point.
Missile Size: 24.8138 MSP (62.03450 Tons) Warhead: 0 Radiation Damage: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s Fuel: 4,336 1st Stage Flight Time: 1 seconds 1st Stage Range: 0k km
2nd Stage Flight Time: 3 minutes 2nd Stage Range: 10.19m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.94 EM Sensitivity Modifier: 18
Resolution: 100 Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 10,771,877 km
Cost Per Missile: 53.520896 Development Cost: 1156
Second Stage: Wedel Mine Submunition x4
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0% 3k km/s 0% 5k km/s 0% 10k km/s 0%
The warhead, I went with multiple sub munitions as that seemed the best idea to overwhelm point defense but I do see the merit of a massive warhead as well
Missile Size: 5.9178 MSP (14.79450 Tons) Warhead: 12 Radiation Damage: 12 Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 76,616 km/s Fuel: 1,084 Flight Time: 3 minutes Range: 13.78m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.94 EM Sensitivity Modifier: 18
Resolution: 100 Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 10,771,877 km
Cost Per Missile: 16.024224 Development Cost: 632
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 919.4% 3k km/s 306.5% 5k km/s 183.9% 10k km/s 91.9%
again the feedback is amazing and appreciated!
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In the past I usually create a cheap "patrol" class of ship that would work well in a situation like this. I give it 2-5 years of deployment and slow, but efficient engines. I believe the last one I made was about half the speed. I would do a PD version and a anti ship version. Logistically it's a lot simpler vs static bases. Easier to retrofit, refuel, overhaul or move. I tended to keep these in service a lot longer too as their role works well for even outdated ships. If there is a actual incursion somewhere, my A team fleet comes out...
I kinda have something like this already, I used a smaller 5k sized ship with fairly quick engines to protect systems and ward off pirates and the occasional invader but I saw the distance between the jump points and the planets drew me to something more static. Do you recommend missiles for this role, my beam ships are effective but fairly expensive to be thrown away cheaply?
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Yeah for a patrol ship like this I would do missiles. Depending on how close resupply is you might be able to do really cheap box launchers. Gauss or something for the PD ships though.
Your missile base looks pretty good except I would make a couple changes. Even if you don't think it'll get shot at, a military vessel really should have some kind of armor. I would consider 4-6 layers a minimum.
Second, 6 launchers isn't a lot, but if you are intending to have a few bases it'll probably be fine, especially with such fast missiles. One thing to consider is a slower reload rate to let you cram a few more launchers in. For a antiship missile 20 seconds is a really fast reload. With the range afforded by the missiles you should be able to place these a little further away and give yourself plenty of chances for several volleys if need be.
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Second, 6 launchers isn't a lot, but if you are intending to have a few bases it'll probably be fine, especially with such fast missiles. One thing to consider is a slower reload rate to let you cram a few more launchers in. For a antiship missile 20 seconds is a really fast reload. With the range afforded by the missiles you should be able to place these a little further away and give yourself plenty of chances for several volleys if need be.
For anti-small craft work, usually it is better to have fewer launchers with the maximum reload rate, as this allows you to have more total missiles (using magazines) which can be fired until all targets have some assigned ordnance in flight, provided you have sufficient range to do so. Presuming enemy craft have a closing speed of, say, 10,000 km/s, they will close 200,000 km between volleys, so a range in excess of 2 million km will allow you to fire your entire magazine load with this design.
The one challenge here is point defense, a swarm of beam-armed small craft which are in formation can put up a sufficient final fire PD screen to avoid damage. The best way to counter this is usually ECM on the missiles, since small craft usually lack ECCM and will not be able to get a workable hit rate for final fire PD. On a size 8 missile I think devoting 0.25 MSP to ECM should be easy enough to do.
If you do not have ECM capabilities, then box launchers (with enough MFCs to target only a few missiles per enemy craft) are probably safer as a single overwhelming salvo will overwhelm most small craft swarms' ad-hoc PD in this case.
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Looks like fun.
Just noticed the "Second Stage Separation Range" (SSSR) on your Wedel Mine base Xanithas, is the default 150,000 km. I am guessing that is not intended.
It is easily missed, which is how I finally learned to edit a save and change missile designs! [EDIT though thinking about it, the missile design dialogue does not refresh SSSR if you view the researched design and copy the text for display, I just remembered, so I may be preaching to the choir here.]
As I understand it, SSSR determines max range for mine activation, so a missile 10m km range with SSSR 150k km wastes several million kms of coverage / fuel.
I do a little sum to work out mine SSSR which is simply : missile max range - (missile flight time * max hostile speed) to decide roughly how far away a target can be on mine activation and still be hit and set SSSR to a little less than that for luck.