Aurora 4x

VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: coco146 on December 29, 2012, 08:50:49 AM

Title: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on December 29, 2012, 08:50:49 AM
I've begun building building my first proper fleet:

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Ark Royal-I class Carrier    18,000 tons     280 Crew     2188.4 BP      TCS 360  TH 1260  EM 0
3500 km/s     Armour 2-61     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.28 Years     MSP 608    AFR 324%    IFR 4.5%    1YR 159    5YR 2378    Max Repair 63 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 0   
Hangar Deck Capacity 8000 tons     Magazine 425   

126 EP Ion Drive (10)    Power 126    Fuel Use 71.17%    Signature 126    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,700,000 Litres    Range 23.9 billion km   (78 days at full power)

ASM-I "Supernova" (106)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 44.5m    Range: 48.1m km   WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 138/82/41

Strike Group
18x Viper-I Fighter-bomber   Speed: 6279 km/s    Size: 8.6

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Trafalgar-I class Missile Destroyer    9,000 tons     263 Crew     1544.4 BP      TCS 180  TH 756  EM 0
4200 km/s     Armour 4-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 50
Maint Life 4.6 Years     MSP 644    AFR 108%    IFR 1.5%    1YR 49    5YR 742    Max Repair 180 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 220   

126 EP Ion Drive (6)    Power 126    Fuel Use 71.17%    Signature 126    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 28.1 billion km   (77 days at full power)

Size 5 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC43-R100 (2)     Range 43.2m km    Resolution 100
ASM-5 Sunburn (40)  Speed: 21,600 km/s   End: 74.2m    Range: 96.2m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 115/69/34

Active Search Sensor MR144-R100 (1)     GPS 18000     Range 144.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Viper-I class Fighter-bomber    430 tons     14 Crew     85 BP      TCS 8.6  TH 54  EM 0
6279 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 1.8
Maint Life 61.34 Years     MSP 124    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 18 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 3   
Magazine 12   

18 EP Ion Drive (3)    Power 18    Fuel Use 218.25%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 1.9 billion km   (3 days at full power)

ASM Launch Rails (3)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC43-R100 (1)     Range 43.2m km    Resolution 100
ASM-I "Supernova" (3)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 44.5m    Range: 48.1m km   WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 138/82/41

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

I have two carriers and I plan to build 4 destroyers and also design an AMM destroyer and a jump capable ship, any advice?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Jumpp on January 02, 2013, 11:02:01 AM
Since that carrier is going to be traveling with those missile destroyers, it's best if they're equally fast.  With the carrier being exactly twice the size of the destroyer, that's easy to manage.  You just have to give it exactly twice as many of the same engine--so maybe add two to the carrier or pull one from the destroyer.

It's also worth going with fewer, bigger engines instead of a big cluster of small ones.  I bet those 126-EP drives are 1.05 engine power, fuel consumption 0.7, and size 10HS?  So your carrier is packing 5,000 tons of engine and with 1,700 tons of fuel has a range of 24 billion km.  Instead try a 634.8-EP engine (46HS, power mod 1.15).  Two of those on the carrier will give you the same speed and range (slightly better, actually: 3527 speed and 25.2 billion km range) for only 4,600 tons of engine and 1,350 tons of fuel.  You'll be a lot more fuel-efficient and save 750 tons besides.

I'd put one of that same engine on the various carrier escorts, provided that they're exactly half the carrier's size.


Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 02, 2013, 11:41:30 AM
Thanks, I'll try that when I get back to my computer.

Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Marski on January 02, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
In your Missile Destroyer design, the missile guidance systems have shorter ranger than the missiles it's supposed to be firing.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 03, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
Won't that make me very susceptible to the effects of ECM?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Marski on January 03, 2013, 11:03:15 AM
Won't that make me very susceptible to the effects of ECM?
With that design you'll be forced to fight practically on point-blank range, I seriously recommend upgrading your guidance systems to have atleast 120-130 million kilometer range for newer missile designs.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 03, 2013, 02:30:05 PM
Sorry didn't realize that I was using my fighter FC.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 14, 2013, 03:56:36 PM
Okay, that game didn't work, new game so far 2 main combat ships plus a couple of obsoletes that were only produced in limited number.

Code: [Select]
Broadsword Mod2 class Missile Destroyer    4,000 tons     128 Crew     584 BP      TCS 80  TH 180  EM 0
2250 km/s     Armour 2-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 30
Maint Life 4.46 Years     MSP 182    AFR 64%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 15    5YR 222    Max Repair 52 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 90   

60 EP Ion Drive (3)    Power 60    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 28.9 billion km   (148 days at full power)

Type 53 ASM Tube (6)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Missile Fire Control FC25-R100 (1)     Range 25.2m km    Resolution 100
ASM-3 "Shimmer" (18)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 38.4m    Range: 58.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 84/50/25

Active Search Sensor MR42-R100 (1)     GPS 5250     Range 42.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Trafalgar Mod1 class Missile Destroyer    7,500 tons     216 Crew     1054.5 BP      TCS 150  TH 360  EM 0
2400 km/s     Armour 3-34     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 50
Maint Life 4.68 Years     MSP 351    AFR 112%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 26    5YR 393    Max Repair 52 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 200   

60 EP Ion Drive (6)    Power 60    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,150,000 Litres    Range 32.3 billion km   (155 days at full power)

Type 53 ASM Tube (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Missile Fire Control FC25-R100 (1)     Range 25.2m km    Resolution 100
ASM-3 "Shimmer" (40)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 38.4m    Range: 58.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 84/50/25

Active Search Sensor MR42-R100 (1)     GPS 5250     Range 42.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I currently have 6 of each.  I also have a Cruiser design which hasn't begun construction yet:

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Iron Duke class Missile Cruiser    10,000 tons     261 Crew     1309.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 540  EM 0
2700 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 68.3
Maint Life 2.55 Years     MSP 246    AFR 266%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 53    5YR 794    Max Repair 52 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 250   

60 EP Ion Drive (9)    Power 60    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres    Range 25.3 billion km   (108 days at full power)

Single R1.5/C1 Meson Cannon Turret (2x1)    Range 15,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01.5 15-1250 (1)    Max Range: 30,000 km   TS: 1250 km/s     67 33 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Type 53 ASM Tube (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Size 5 Box Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Missile Fire Control FC25-R100 (1)     Range 25.2m km    Resolution 100
ASM-3 "Shimmer" (50)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 38.4m    Range: 58.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 84/50/25

Active Search Sensor MR42-R100 (1)     GPS 5250     Range 42.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'm not so sure about the meson turrets on the cruiser but I don't really have the resources to build a dedicated PD ship.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on January 14, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
I would say that they can work, though I spoted some strange things.

The Iron Duke has a FC with a tracking speed of 1250... I think you did something wrong when you designed that one and just missed it.

Over all I think your ships might be a bit slow for Ion tech. In general I view each engine tech with a standard engine at 25% of the ships total weight to be the base line speed of ships. For Ion tech this should be 3000km/s. In my opinion most ships military combat ships engines should be between 25-33% of their hull space. If you go lower you should increase the power multiplier to compensate some to get at least to the techs base speed.

This is obviously not law or anything, just what I prefer. ;)

When it comes to point defense then Meson cannons are usually regarded as a good choice as are Lasers and Gauss cannons. If you play against the AI I doubt that they use armored missiles which is where Lasers and Mesons shine the best. Gauss cannons need at least three shots to be better than a laser on the PD duty. Lasers are also good because they have much greater range and can be doubled as anti-ship weapons as well. Gauss cannons are not as good and Meason have relatively lousy range in the early tech eras, but otherwise are good in combat.

When I create a point defense turret of Lasers (which are the same wight as a Mesons) I always put them in quad mounts. In general, when looking at the cost, fire controls are very expensive. I usually view two quad PD turrets (or one Gauss in quad) to be an effective PD system over all. They should have about 50% chance to bring down a same tech missile per shot.
The total weitght with a lased PD defence battery on my ships are generally about 1200 tons and have the potential to shoot down on average about 4 missiles at a reasonable cost in production.

In general Gauss guns are much better as you go forward as PD on your ships and don't neglect CIWS systems either. I always put one or more CIWS on bigger ships such as ships above 10000 tons. As far as my experience goes the AI don't use armoured missiles (but don't quote me on that) and as such Gauss guns is the best final defense PD system you can have.

You might also look at you engine design. Can you make them bigger and save on better fuel efficiency. There might also be different opinions on the amount of fuel you should keep on your ships. I generally don't keep more than around 20 billion range on my bigger capital ships and slightly less on my escorts. I rather keep the tanks on civilian tankers. around 20 billion range is enough for battle maneuvers most of the time. It would also save you some space for more combat goodness. ;)

Another thing I note was your lack of armour on your ships. I never launch combat ships with less than four amour strips unless it is a very small escort or scout, then it is a minimum three layers of armour. A cruiser with less than five armour is rather weak too. That is the type of armour I put on destroyers at about 6000-10000 tons, Cruisers get more.
I always find this worth wile unless you intend to totally smother the enemy with AMM and never close to beam combat, then you might be able to afford low armour on your combat ships.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 14, 2013, 06:16:30 PM
Looks like I made a few oversights regarding FC on the Iron Duke, I reckon I might scrap the Trafalgars and the Broadswords and go with an updated version of the Iron Duke, I think I might remove the mesons in favor of greater engine power, and I think I might try to get a dedicated Anti-Missile ship.  I have pretty poor tech ATM.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Anarade Relle on January 14, 2013, 09:00:10 PM
Probably faster to just upgrade. Ripping out the old FC and putting in a new one, especially if you manufacture the new FC's with your factories, will take only a few months at the maximum. In any case don't scrap until you have replacements.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Icecoon on January 15, 2013, 02:37:43 AM

You might also look at you engine design. Can you make them bigger and save on better fuel efficiency.

Yes, those engines need upgrade. 60 EP on Ion tech is a little bit low. In my game i prefer two engine types for my warships. A 10 HS medium military engine for the survey ships and warships under 10kt and a 20 HS Capital Ship Engine for those big guys. For instance that medium drive has 102 EP and that big one has 204 EP.

Edit: On a 13000t ship i have four of the big ones and they give the ship a decent speed of 3060 km/s with the range of around 30b with 1m litres of fuel
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 03:19:54 AM
I'm afraid 1250 is the best tracking speed I have and I can't seem to design AMMs with any meaningful chance to hit targets, so not sure what to do there.  I can upgrade the Trafalgar class but the broadsword does not really have the weight of fire I'm looking for, unless I use them for defense of extra solar colonies?

Here's the Black Prince Cruiser.  More Armour and I sacrificed the Mesons for greater speed and a slightly bigger first strike:
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Black Prince class Cruiser    10,000 tons     241 Crew     1363.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 630  EM 0
3150 km/s     Armour 5-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 60.5
Maint Life 1.96 Years     MSP 256    AFR 266%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 87    5YR 1312    Max Repair 84 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 270   

126 EP Ion Drive, Heavy Military (5)    Power 126    Fuel Use 71.17%    Signature 126    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 950,000 Litres    Range 24.0 billion km   (88 days at full power)

Type 53 ASM Tube (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Size 5 Box Launcher (14)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Missile Fire Control FC70-R100 (1)     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 100
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Black on January 15, 2013, 04:03:37 AM
You can increase the size of energy weapons fire control to get better range or tracking speed. With ion tech you should be able to get decent AMM. Just be sure to use increased power, fuel consumption will be high, but you don't really need long range AMM as you will be limited by your sensors detection range.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on January 15, 2013, 05:19:58 AM
As with everything else in this game there is always priorities to be made.

If your tracking technology is lousy compared to the missiles you think you will face then you need to prioritize. In my experience it is faster but more expensive resource wise to start develop a good AMM before good beam PD. The reason are that AMM only need one extra research which is missile agility in addition to the research you will be doing for your anti-ship missiles. Missiles can be built separately or in parallel with your ships in shipyards.
For beam PD to be effective you generally need allot in terms of hull space and the initial cost is more expensive and take more time than building decent AMM ships. But when you look further down the line beam PD will be much more economical, but only in enough quantity.

In your case I would develop a decent AMM by researching missile agility and better engine power modification.

Also remember that when you design the beam PD fire-control you must increase the tracking speed to maximum (4x). In your case a base 1250km/s tracking speed would translate into a tracking speed of that fire control of 5000km/s (not very impressive for Ion tech engines).

In the beginning of an empires development you will need to specialize your technology and try to capitalize on what you have. You can't really afford being decent in several areas.

Everyone has their own path to success and mine are specialization on construction/production techs early on and rely on small defensive ship designs. There is almost no chance to perform offensive actions early in the game and gain much, unless you face a truly weak opponent. The logistic to feed an invasion fleet is huge, not to mention troops you will need to conquer anything.
I never construct real warships until I can produce decent sized and equipped warships, for me that is 10-20k ton minimum for a main line combat ship. It has to be able to be both offensive and defensive. My design philosophy of any cruiser is that they must be able to defend against their own destructive capacity with a slight margin. Pure offence/defence is left for the small ships, such as missile boats, frigates and destroyers.

Something that I find very important to prioritise in the beginning to make decent attack/defence platforms are "Maximum engine power modification" and "Fuel efficiency". Being able to attack and engage your missiles at a greater range than the enemy is the only way to stay on top against someone stronger than you. You need to operate the ships under the protection of planetary defence complexes.

Once you start building proper ships and take the war to an enemy you will need much better technology or I find the effort a little underwhelming in performance. In general I feel that I need about three-four tech levels of research done in all basic techs in order to have ships perform well. Such as engine, power modification, fuel efficiency, some beam weapon, gauss cannons, turret gearing, tracking speed, EM sensor, Thermal sensor, Active strength, armour, missile warhead, missile agility and shields.
Therefore concentrating on missiles and engines in the early game make this list much shorter but are mainly good for defending your main worlds and colonies.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 05:21:58 AM
Okay, started designing of my first AMM cruiser, but I won't have it ready for some time, in the meantime, I reckon I need to build A jump capable ship I was thinking I would also make it my tanker?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Black on January 15, 2013, 05:30:36 AM
Well you can do that, but it is possible to construct your tanker as commercial design so it will not be affected by annual failure rate.

Your jump ship will be a military design so you could use it as supply ship with maintenance supplies or it could transport spare missiles if you add some magazines.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Icecoon on January 15, 2013, 06:10:08 AM
Yes, adding additional magazines on a jump ship is a good idea. In my case my jump ships are used to deliver a battlegroup to a hostile system. After jumping in the system they split from the main group and wait on the other side of the jump point until the big guys clean the system.

Another option is to incorporate the jump engines in your biggest armed military vessel. Apart from the regular jump ships i designed a separate class armed with anti-ship beam weapons. They are as fast as the other ships in the task group. I use them in a pair with two escort cruisers and two missile cruisers and therefore they are capable of squadron jump and i use them as a fast response squadron.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 06:25:08 AM
OK will do, tankers being civilian vessels makes sense.  Is 22500/25000 an acceptable speed for AMM at ion tech?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Icecoon on January 15, 2013, 06:31:02 AM
Yes that will do. But don't expect miracles, they will not hit often. You will need a dedicated PD platform to finish off what your AMMs did not hit.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Lacking any good propulsion ,sensors or energy scientists is really hurting, as is running out of money
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on January 15, 2013, 06:46:16 AM
That is one of the conundrums of this game, managing your resources.  :)

In order to build a decent AMM you need a few levels of agility and at least x3.5 engine power modifier, preferably x4 modifier. Otherwise you might as well try to over engineer the range of missiles and speed of your engines and do hit and run and hope for the best.
At Ion tech you want your AMM to have a speed close to 30000km/s. My ASM/AMM are usually between 24000-32000km/s at Ion tech.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 06:52:37 AM
30000?  My missiles at already 60% engine and I can't get that.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Black on January 15, 2013, 07:00:41 AM
You most likely have lower engine power modifier. Agility is also important for AMM. On the other hand, warhead can be very small, just enough to deliver one point of damage.

Just a little thing about the tanker. If you want to use ship with commercial engines in systems without jump gates you will need commercial jump engines.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 07:06:25 AM
I didn't know there even was a x4.00 power rate.  I only have .24 wh on my AMM, Thar's as small as it can get, it worries me that my AMM seem to be the same speed as my ASM.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: sublight on January 15, 2013, 07:29:48 AM
As a 2nd opinion I typically only have have power 1.75x when I enter the Ion age (3.5x max with missile doubled) and have 2.5x power when making the transition to Magnito.

My AMM were the same speed as my ASMs, but had 20+ manuverability for 20%+ hit rate against my own stuff.


Also, using turrets when your tracking speed is that low is a waste of space. Consider using a 2x tracking speed FC with rail guns if you still want to try beam point defense.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on January 15, 2013, 08:24:50 AM
Yes... about 3.5 to 4 (or 1.75 - 2 for engines) for missiles is what I have at Ion tech as well and is enough to produce decent AMM.

Here is a missile using a 0.6MSP engine at x3.5 power modifier, 48 agility per MSP and 4 warhead strength per MSP.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 17
Speed: 25200 km/s    Engine Endurance: 3 minutes   Range: 5.3m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.6994
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 428.4%   3k km/s 136%   5k km/s 85.7%   10k km/s 42.8%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.4494x Gallicite   Fuel x25


It will have about 15% chance to bring down this ASM that uses the same missile technology.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 29400 km/s    Engine Endurance: 100 minutes   Range: 175.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.8375
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 294%   3k km/s 90%   5k km/s 58.8%   10k km/s 29.4%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   1.8375x Gallicite   Fuel x1250

To me this is barely acceptable performance from an AMM. I don't know what technology level you have but in this case you would need one additional level of warhead strength or agility (preferably both) to make the AMM worthwhile.

It you be even worse if you faced a missile like this...

Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 1     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 21000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 75 minutes   Range: 95.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.7161
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 252%   3k km/s 84%   5k km/s 50.4%   10k km/s 25.2%
Materials Required:    1.25x Tritanium   1.4661x Gallicite   Fuel x850

Now you are down to 10% kill ratio... pretty pathetic...  ;)
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 08:35:58 AM
Well, I've got one now, just don't know how good it'll be.
Code: [Select]
Kite class Escort Cruiser    10,000 tons     164 Crew     1441.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 630  EM 0
3150 km/s     Armour 7-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 20
Maint Life 5.95 Years     MSP 2360    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 114    5YR 1711    Max Repair 192 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 440   

126 EP Ion Drive, Heavy Military (5)    Power 126    Fuel Use 71.17%    Signature 126    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 22.8 billion km   (83 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC18-R1 (1)     Range 18.4m km    Resolution 1
SMM-2 "Mauler" (440)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 1.6m    Range: 2.4m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 109/65/32

Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1)     GPS 192     Range 15.4m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Black on January 15, 2013, 09:09:45 AM
Well I prefer longer deployment time, 12 months in my case. You could also use 2 fire controls.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Icecoon on January 15, 2013, 10:00:33 AM
That ships is quite good, but as Black pointed out it has only pne fire control. Imagine seven incoming waves of each counting 20 enemy missiles. With that ship you will be able to target only one wave at a time with all the launchers. I go with one fire control for 4 launchers.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 01:31:05 PM
OK quick question regarding my jump ship, I have max squadron size 3, does that include th e jump ship itself?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Hawkeye on January 15, 2013, 01:50:29 PM
Correct. The jumpship can take two others along.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 15, 2013, 04:48:49 PM
Okay, then do I build enough ships for the entire fleet or do I jump them through two at a time?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Erik L on January 15, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
Okay, then do I build enough ships for the entire fleet or do I jump them through two at a time?

If you wish to do a combat transit, you need sufficient jump capacity for all of the ships. The order "Transit" will ferry the ships across to the max of the available capacity, then ferry the rest.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 16, 2013, 01:25:09 AM
Think might just stick to ferrying them for now.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Charlie Beeler on January 16, 2013, 07:02:58 AM
The only time you really need "squadron transit" is when the jump point is directly defended. 
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 16, 2013, 08:00:53 AM
but doing a normal transit where the ships are ferried through wont mess up my task group right?
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Charlie Beeler on January 16, 2013, 08:42:59 AM
but doing a normal transit where the ships are ferried through wont mess up my task group right?
Not sure what you mean by "mess up". 

A standard transit will have the TG showup on the JP. 

A squadron transit will have the TG showup at a random direction from the JP at roughly the distance jump engine is rated. 

With standard there is no limit to the TG's size, while squadron is limited to the JE rating.

The other difference has to do with "jump blindness".  Using standard transit the "blindness" effect can last up to 30 minutes, while squadron transit is only effected up to 30 seconds.  Jump Blindness means that active sensors are offline and nothing can be launched. 
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: Charlie Beeler on January 16, 2013, 08:43:48 AM
Well, I've got one now, just don't know how good it'll be.
Code: [Select]
Kite class Escort Cruiser    10,000 tons     164 Crew     1441.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 630  EM 0
3150 km/s     Armour 7-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 20
Maint Life 5.95 Years     MSP 2360    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 114    5YR 1711    Max Repair 192 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 440   

126 EP Ion Drive, Heavy Military (5)    Power 126    Fuel Use 71.17%    Signature 126    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 22.8 billion km   (83 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC18-R1 (1)     Range 18.4m km    Resolution 1
SMM-2 "Mauler" (440)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 1.6m    Range: 2.4m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 109/65/32

Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1)     GPS 192     Range 15.4m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

There actually is a very serious problem with this ship, the sensor suite is way to myopic.  Most beginning players get tripped up here.  That resolution 1 setting means the detection range of a 1hs/50ton object (ship/station/missile/etc).  There is a sever range penalty to detect objects smaller that the resolution setting (sensor range * ((target hs / sensor resolution)^2).

Without EW range penalties your above MFC can only see a size 6 (or smaller) missile at roughly 662k km.  That means a sz6 missile traveling at 30k/kps is only about 22seconds from impact.  This means your launchers only get 1 shot at any inbound missiles. 

Your Active search sensor has a similar problem.  It will only detect a size 6 missile at roughly 1.7m km.

What all this means is that you can't use but a small fraction of the available range of your missile.

If I've reversed your sensor tech correctly your using AG Sensor strength 16 and EM Sensor strength 8, making your Active sensor 12hs and your MFC 4.75hs, or there abouts.  Frankly you need to prioritize research for the next 2 levels of both AG and EM sensor tech.  This would let you have a sz9 Active Sensor and sz3 MFC (both res 1) that can see sz6 missiles at roughly 3.8m km.  Against speed 30k/kps missiles you' d then have about salvo's from each launcher (assuming ROF 10).  (note MFC's are 1/3 the size of active sensors at the same resolution for the same range)

The single MFC for point defense is fine.  Until you advance the various supporting missile techs you should have the missile point defense set at 5v1.  this means your 10 launchers will engage a maximum of 2 missiles in the same salvo.
Title: Re: Early Warships
Post by: coco146 on January 16, 2013, 03:18:49 PM
I did notice that but I upped the range so I can now see them at about 2-2.5 million km