Empire wide Mineral Logistics.

[d.rodin (OP)]

Few keynotes:
First and most important everything is optimized to minimize micromanagement.
Minerals should flow in both directions to support large scale industrial activity everywhere and to allow all colonies to build themselfes.
This is not optimal approach in terms of fuel and minerals consumption to operate this logistics chain.
1.13 still and very late game.
You don't afraid raiders and able to reliable counter them.

My empire is always virtually divided in sectors, usually they are 2 jumps from center, but it isn't strict rule.
Center of a sector is usually a center of industrial and shipbuilding activity, but it isn't strict rule too.

Logistics chain is divided in "Sector minerals logistics" where all minerals mined in sector are transported in/out central colony and "Global minerals logistics" where minerals from central colonies of sectors are transported in/out Earth.

For minerals transportation i use separate type of freighters - fast, and <100.000 tonns.
I don't use and research sub40% low power engines, to prevent civilians to use them.

Code: [Select]

Akmolinsk-F G10 class Freighter      99 997 tons       622 Crew       8 780.9 BP       TCS 2 000    TH 32 000    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 1-191       Shields 0-0       HTK 113      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 48      PPV 0
MSP 2 039    Max Repair 2000 MSP
Cargo 45 000    Cryogenic Berths 600    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 10   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 4.5 months   

Commercial Plasma Core AM Drive 50% EP8000.00 (4)    Power 32000    Fuel Use 0.35%    Signature 8000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 700 000 Litres    Range 356.4 billion km (257 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
Sector minerals logistics

Set reserve level of minerals on colonies, usually i follow this guideline:
<500 mln population body - 10.000 of each mineral
<1 bln population body - 25.000 of each mineral
<3-4 bln population body - 50.000 of each mineral
5-10 bln population body - 100.000 of each mineral
10> bln population body - 250.000 of each mineral
Sector central Colony - 500.000 of each mineral

Starting point of transport - central colony.

Central Colony: load Durantium x1250
Central Colony: load Neutronium x1250
and all other minerals types x1250
Central Colony: Refuel&Resupply
Colony: Unload all minerals
Colony: Load all Minerals
Central Colony: Unload all Minerals
and Cycle Moves

If minerals are below colony reserve level - transport unloads all minerals picks up nothing (transport pick up nothing generates event and stop increment, but after colony reserve will be filled everything will go smooth), if minerals are above reserve level - transport picks it up and unloads at Central Colony.
In some cases - large distances or colony consumes minerals very actively or produces them too fast it is worth to add second transport as separate fleet and launch it with same orders as 1st, but with 5+days time difference.
And don't forget to save orders as a template.

Global minerals logistics
Earth serves here as a central minerals storage and point of distribution.
Here everything is bit more complicated.
Summary 22 transports required for each Sector central Colony. 1 for each mineral type from Earth to Sector central Colony, 1 for each mineral type from Sector central Colony to Earth.

From Earth to Sector central Colony, Starting point Earth, hauling Durantium:
Load Mineral Type - x12.500 Durantium (50% of cargo, this needed because if Sector central Colony is above reserve level, it should be able to transport 12.500 Durantium transported from Earth and surplus mined in sector back)
Refuel&Resupply
Move to Sector central Colony
Unload all minerals
and cycle moves

From Sector central Colony to Earth, hauling Durantium:
if colony reserve level set to 500.000 then
Sector central Colony:Load Mineral Type - Durantium and set "Minimum Available" to 1.000.000
Sector central Colony:Refuel&Resupply
Earth: Unload all minerals
and cycle moves

When minerals are below 1.000.000, Earth will supply Sector central Colony with minerals. When minerals are above 1.000.000 Sector central Colony will strart move surplus to Earth.
And keep in mind that Sector central Colony is local hub for Sector Minerals Distribution, thats why mineral reserve level on Sector central Colony and "Minimum Available" when hauling minerals to Earth are different numbers.

So far helps me running this with very rare mineral-related micromanagement:

[db48x]

12.6 million commercial tonnage, and no shipping lines? Yikes.

[d.rodin (OP)]

I don't have any big need in civilian shipping.
With functioning mineral logistics lmost all colonies are capable to build themselfes.

[Rich.h]

Do you have a house rule on this game against MD? If not you can achieve similar with even less work, using reserve settings for your colony types, invest heavily in MD so you can shift huge amounts around. colonies that require nearly no minerals in storage would get 100 MD and then lower depending on how fast you need to send stuff. Set things up in a chain so world A to B to C to D etc, the finaly colony should be the largest industry center of that system, and it has a few MD only and sends things back out to the first link in the chain. this way you end up with a balanced flow where every world gets access to what it needs.

All automated/orbital mining operations offload their results to the first world in the chain of a system.

Then you set up frieghters between systems, they collect from the major industry hub world of System A, and offload at the start chain world of system B. This way all minerals entering a system join the chain and the cycle continues.

This results in a steady flow of all excess minerals back to a single world you want as your major industrial base of your empire.

If you have a situation where a system is deficient in a type of mineral, and they are also the furthest system in that chain, then set up a frieghter to take minerals from your final industrial base to off load at the start world of that systems chain.

All of this means you only need micromanage one fleet per system, with a possible extra for each end chain system if there is a defficincy.

[skoormit]

12.6 million commercial tonnage, and no shipping lines? Yikes.

That's 12.6 billion. A thousand yikes.

[db48x]

12.6 million commercial tonnage, and no shipping lines? Yikes.

That's 12.6 billion. A thousand yikes.

Heh. So many yikes that I couldn’t write it correctly.

Impressive empire though; I’ve never managed anything anywhere near that scale. I just can’t imagine doing it without any shipping lines.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I do something similar in almost all of my games... it is better to have minerals moving through space than facilities that produce nothing... more or less. It also feels a bit more realistic to me that worlds wants to be as self sufficient as possible when it comes to industry and other needs, but I digress.

Although as already mentioned... it is far easier to use Mass Drivers to redistribute minerals within systems if you have multiple colonies there... I only use mineral haulers to move minerals between systems.

I probably also don't designate specific colonies as hubs as much as create them based on the system layout and needs to ship the different minerals to colonies or systems.

One planet in each system is always the collection point... normally the one closest to the departure point of the mineral ships.

Each mineral type have their own mineral hauler per route... speed is not really important for minerals... instead throughput is... so more cargo space rather than expensive engines is more important. The reason is that minerals don't do anything unless used for something so might as well be on a cargo ship as on the silos of a planet.

The need of any particular planet is based on the amount of factories or other production facilities they have... so I have no direct rules and designate levels based on needs. Nodes obviously get more minerals than what they need if they are a production colony.

All nodes will be protected by some military installations as would all collection points in systems. These planets usually are the main military base in that system.

A mineral hauler can have a cargo space of anything from 500 tons and up... it really depends on how much ore they need to haul every year and the distance they haul it.

[ColdSuit]

Do you happen to have the save for your game?

I'd love to see how you set this system up!

[d.rodin (OP)]

12.6 million commercial tonnage, and no shipping lines? Yikes.

That's 12.6 billion. A thousand yikes.

actually about half or bit more are orbital habitats.

[d.rodin (OP)]

Do you have a house rule on this game against MD? If not you can achieve similar with even less work, using reserve settings for your colony types, invest heavily in MD so you can shift huge amounts around. colonies that require nearly no minerals in storage would get 100 MD and then lower depending on how fast you need to send stuff. Set things up in a chain so world A to B to C to D etc, the finaly colony should be the largest industry center of that system, and it has a few MD only and sends things back out to the first link in the chain. this way you end up with a balanced flow where every world gets access to what it needs.

All automated/orbital mining operations offload their results to the first world in the chain of a system.

Then you set up frieghters between systems, they collect from the major industry hub world of System A, and offload at the start chain world of system B. This way all minerals entering a system join the chain and the cycle continues.

This results in a steady flow of all excess minerals back to a single world you want as your major industrial base of your empire.

If you have a situation where a system is deficient in a type of mineral, and they are also the furthest system in that chain, then set up a frieghter to take minerals from your final industrial base to off load at the start world of that systems chain.

All of this means you only need micromanage one fleet per system, with a possible extra for each end chain system if there is a defficincy.

Nope, i do collect minerals inside system with MD.
How do you collect minerals inside a system (with MD to a single colony, with MD chain or with transports) is totally up to you, i did cover only external movement of minerals.

[d.rodin (OP)]

I do something similar in almost all of my games... it is better to have minerals moving through space than facilities that produce nothing... more or less. It also feels a bit more realistic to me that worlds wants to be as self sufficient as possible when it comes to industry and other needs, but I digress.

Although as already mentioned... it is far easier to use Mass Drivers to redistribute minerals within systems if you have multiple colonies there... I only use mineral haulers to move minerals between systems.

I probably also don't designate specific colonies as hubs as much as create them based on the system layout and needs to ship the different minerals to colonies or systems.

One planet in each system is always the collection point... normally the one closest to the departure point of the mineral ships.

Each mineral type have their own mineral hauler per route... speed is not really important for minerals... instead throughput is... so more cargo space rather than expensive engines is more important. The reason is that minerals don't do anything unless used for something so might as well be on a cargo ship as on the silos of a planet.

The need of any particular planet is based on the amount of factories or other production facilities they have... so I have no direct rules and designate levels based on needs. Nodes obviously get more minerals than what they need if they are a production colony.

All nodes will be protected by some military installations as would all collection points in systems. These planets usually are the main military base in that system.

A mineral hauler can have a cargo space of anything from 500 tons and up... it really depends on how much ore they need to haul every year and the distance they haul it.

Usually there is natural hub in system, like Sol and Earth. But there can be variations, in my current game Alpha Centauri has 3 colonies that can be hubs (10+b possible population), but only one of them is. But for me it doesn't change anything - transports do exactly same things for any of those 3 colonies.
About troughput - speed is also a way to increase troughput. And i usually chose speed, because it shortens response time to events. I always have about 20-40 of those transports just chilling in Shipyard fleet ready to go and establish mineral logistics in new colonies and i sometimes use them as fast secondary transports.
But recently i discovered that some colonies are capable to process about 150k tonns of minerals or even more just in month (pic), so now i thinking about dumping idea of specialized mineral transport and use my regular sub-200.000 tonns freigthers. (they are about ~20% slower but have double cargo hold). And i also want to test multiple transports in one fleet. (My guess - orders should be set so picked up minerals should sligtly exceed cargo hold of single transport to prevent error msg "picked up nothing")

[d.rodin (OP)]

Do you happen to have the save for your game?

I'd love to see how you set this system up!

later, right now it is in a process of adjustement and reorganisation.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Regarding speed, it is not efficient to have lot's of speed as engines are WAY more expensive than cargo space... also minerals does not care if they are on a cargo space or at a planets silos doing nothing anyway. So, it is a matter of planning in that sense. You can often carry three or even four times as much cargo at half speed for example for the same ship cost and less cost in fuel too probably.

Mineral transports is all about throughput in the end... 

However, I also have faster transports too that can take minerals when important... but their main job is to carry facilities to newly established bases and colonies where time is more of a factor than efficiency.

In terms of engines with lower power efficiency I definitely use them... I only allow the civilians to use 30% power engines as minimum, seems to be the most efficient in terms of cost and transport capacity. I do use lower on my own transports though... I just make sure to use SM so I stay at about 30% for civilians to use that as the minimum.

[Droll]

Regarding speed, it is not efficient to have lot's of speed as engines are WAY more expensive than cargo space... also minerals does not care if they are on a cargo space or at a planets silos doing nothing anyway. So, it is a matter of planning in that sense. You can often carry three or even four times as much cargo at half speed for example for the same ship cost and less cost in fuel too probably.

Mineral transports is all about throughput in the end... 

However, I also have faster transports too that can take minerals when important... but their main job is to carry facilities to newly established bases and colonies where time is more of a factor than efficiency.

In terms of engines with lower power efficiency I definitely use them... I only allow the civilians to use 30% power engines as minimum, seems to be the most efficient in terms of cost and transport capacity. I do use lower on my own transports though... I just make sure to use SM so I stay at about 30% for civilians to use that as the minimum.

How does SM help enforce higher minimum for civilians?

[Jorgen_CAB]

How does SM help enforce higher minimum for civilians?

You can research lower tech and build engines on it... but always remove them so you you technically are at a higher level for civilian purposes. Every time you want to add a research project you just SM the tech level you are actually at do the design and add the research and remove the tech levels to the desired ones after that. The same when you want to research a better tech level.

I think that Steve should just fix civilians engines at a fixed power level, say 25-30% and be done with it. Civilian freighter don't consume fuel anyway and cheaper than this does not make them more efficient due to lower engine cost... you just get more civilian ships which negatively impact game performance.