My first try at ship design

[marijn198 (OP)]

Hello all,

I finally decided to give the game a go myself after watching from afar on and off for years.
I know a jack of all trades kind of approach isn't always the most beneficial but i just cant help myself.
Is this destroyer design laughable as a system defense ship or could it hold its own against some basic early game raiders or NPR's?
If i know I'm (close to being) on the right track i can feel a bit more confident in my next designs.

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Defiant class Destroyer      14,171 tons       399 Crew       1,745.1 BP       TCS 283    TH 640    EM 0
2258 km/s      Armour 3-52       Shields 0-0       HTK 99      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 6-4      PPV 73.75
Maint Life 3.30 Years     MSP 1,461    AFR 268%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 203    5YR 3,043    Max Repair 160.00 MSP
Magazine 160 / 0   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Orobos Turbines NPE-EP320ME (2)    Power 640.0    Fuel Use 40.00%    Signature 320.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 63.5 billion km (325 days at full power)

Thaddeus Precision Arms 15C3-NUL (4)    Range 180,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 10       
Thaddeus Precision Arms PC3-NUL PD Cluster (1x4)    Range 90,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-12     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Vivar Warning & Control BFC R192M (1)     Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s    ECCM-0     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Vivar Warning & Control BFC-R192S (1)     Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s    ECCM-0     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Amon & Mkvenner GFR-R32 (1)     Total Power Output 32    Exp 5%

Temetor Ordnance S6ML (6)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 25
Temetor Ordnance MFC49-R20S (1)     Range 49m km    Resolution 20
Temetor Ordnance ASM6 (24)    Speed: 14,000 km/s    End: 47.7m     Range: 40.1m km    WH: 8    Size: 6    TH: 46/28/14

Vivar Warning & Control AS52K-R50 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 52.6m km    Resolution 50
Vivar Warning & Control AS14K-R1M (1)     GPS 80     Range 14.3m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes


[Ultimoos]

It's not that it is laughable, but rather, you do not know what you would be facing. So, you can't really design something more reliable. A good approach is. I have this ship right there, how would I destroy it? First of all, that ship is slow. It's not a bad thing if it can project long range offence. You have 6 s6 launchers on a 14Kt ship. That is very little. Also, your missiles are very slow. A salvo of those will probably not do much to a single raider ship, but that is considering the pre v2.2 raiders. When you design a slow missile ship, you want 2 stage missiles. First stage is a slower, efficient and long range stage, while second stage is short range and very quick missile. It is super hard to design a decent missile below tech level 3.
For starters, you want something compact that can brute force itself against raiders. Try to make a dedicated fast low range missile ship. You want something that can at least chase raiders to launch a salvo of quick missiles. Limit yourself to 3Kt. Try to fit as much speed and damage in that small package.
For example, this is my tech3 missile corvette to defend from lone raiders.

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MHCorvette G3 class Missile Boat      3,238 tons       49 Crew       351.3 BP       TCS 65    TH 308    EM 0
4756 km/s      Armour 1-19       Shields 0-0       HTK 23      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1-3      PPV 14.4
Maint Life 2.69 Years     MSP 67    AFR 84%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 13    5YR 199    Max Repair 33.2 MSP
Magazine 144 / 0   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

110%HS5EP44.00 (7)    Power 308    Fuel Use 125.63%    Signature 44    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 165,000 Litres    Range 7.3 billion km (17 days at full power)

Size 3.0 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (16)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 1735
FC4-R1 (1)     Range 4m km    Resolution 1
ULASM G3 (48)    Speed: 20,933 km/s    End: 1.7m     Range: 2.1m km    WH: 4    Size: 3    TH: 69/41/20

AS5-R20 (1)     GPS 32     Range 5.5m km    Resolution 20
TH0.2-1.6 (1)     Sensitivity 1.6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
EM0.2-1.6 (1)     Sensitivity 1.6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

[marijn198 (OP)]

Thank you very much for the tips! I think one of the main problems im seeing is im trying to give the ship far too much range compared to what it needs to have for system defense.  At the tech level im on that probably massively inflates the size of the ship im arriving at.  I will try to redesign it for much shorter but far more decisive action!

[non sequitur]

So part of this game is figuring out how you like to play it and the only way to do that is putting your designs in the field and seeing what happens. Wouldn't want to deprive you of that joy.

however, a few thoughts:
1) as Ultimoos said, speed is going to be a problem; especially against raiders.
2) the range seems a bit like overkill to me, but perhaps that is what you need.
3) I wouldn't feel comfortable with that few reloads of your missiles.

I like generalist ships too so I understand the drive. Overall though, I would think about a ship's primary mission. Is this a missile ship primarily that has a backup weapon or two in case its magazines run dry or is a beam ship that can pop off a few missiles at an escaping enemy?  Even generalist ships have a primary mission.

[marijn198 (OP)]

Since i mainly don't want to be defenseless even though i don't know what i'm up against yet i decided to go with aforementioned much lower range but much smaller/faster vessel. 
For now i will drop the beams until i can design a more fit for purpose ship with them.   I haven't been able to come up with a good two stage missile yet but i have redesigned my old missiles to be shorter range but a decent amount faster. 
I'm confident that if i score a hit or two they should do good damage but will my volley size be large enough to penetrate the kind of missile defenses i can expect from raiders if i group a couple of these in a fleet?
Is going with a single engine just too risky as a rule of thumb or is it more of a personal choice?

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Kvikk class Missile Boat      6,000 tons       167 Crew       856.9 BP       TCS 120    TH 480    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 3-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 52      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1-1      PPV 24
Maint Life 1.42 Years     MSP 589    AFR 288%    IFR 4.0%    1YR 320    5YR 4,797    Max Repair 240 MSP
Magazine 272 / 0   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Orobos Turbines NPE-EP480M (1)    Power 480    Fuel Use 110.23%    Signature 480    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 263,000 Litres    Range 7.2 billion km (20 days at full power)

Temetor Ordnance S6ML (4)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 25
Temetor Ordnance MFC49-R20S (1)     Range 49m km    Resolution 20
Temetor Ordnance ASM6 Mk2 (45)    Speed: 19,200 km/s    End: 4.1m     Range: 4.7m km    WH: 9.00    Size: 6.00    TH: 64/38/19

Vivar Warning & Control AS52K-R50 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 52.6m km    Resolution 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes
PS.  These are mostly tech 3 components i think (or is nuclear pulse and equivalent techs considered tech 2?)

[xenoscepter]

 --- Cut that deployment time to 9 months at most. 24 months, two years, is a LOT of up time. Your ship's size will absolutely SHRINK.

[marijn198 (OP)]

Funnily enough i tried lowering it but the difference seemed so minimal i didnt consider it worth it at the time.  That being said i dont need it and a little extra speed doesnt hurt.

[xenoscepter]

No smeg? Well that's interesting for sure.

[marijn198 (OP)]

Here is 6 months with a tiny amount of fuel dropped as well.

Code: [Select]

Kvikk class Missile Boat      5,800 tons       167 Crew       818.4 BP       TCS 116    TH 480    EM 0
4138 km/s      Armour 3-28       Shields 0-0       HTK 49      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1-1      PPV 24
Maint Life 1.44 Years     MSP 588    AFR 269%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 312    5YR 4,679    Max Repair 240 MSP
Magazine 272 / 0   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Orobos Turbines NPE-EP480M (1)    Power 480    Fuel Use 110.23%    Signature 480    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 255,000 Litres    Range 7.2 billion km (20 days at full power)

Temetor Ordnance S6ML (4)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 25
Temetor Ordnance MFC49-R20S (1)     Range 49m km    Resolution 20
Temetor Ordnance ASM6 Mk2 (45)    Speed: 19,200 km/s    End: 4.1m     Range: 4.7m km    WH: 9.00    Size: 6.00    TH: 64/38/19

Vivar Warning & Control AS52K-R50 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 52.6m km    Resolution 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes


[Steve Walmsley]

When designing, you should consider the overall design of your fleet before you design individual ships. For example, you might design an escort that will never be deployed alone, so it doesn't need long-range sensors. Or you might design a large missile warship with no point defence, because it will never go anywhere without escorts. Will you have tankers along, or do your ships need to operate at long distances without logistic support. Do you need fast ships, or just a type of fast ship within your fleet mix that can handle certain situations. When you consider fleet composition, you don't necessarily need a ship that can do everything, or deal with any situation.

[marijn198 (OP)]

I figured its good to have a couple individual ships ready for the defense of the sol system incase i dont have a whole fleet ready for expeditionary deployment. 
This ship was made using nuclear pulse technology, i think that is considered tech level 2 and not 3 as far as i can tell? Is it then in most cases better to hold off on building any tech level 2 ships and design a whole fleet to deploy at tech level 3 instead? Unless i come under attack beforehand i suppose. 

[superstrijder15]

When designing, you should consider the overall design of your fleet before you design individual ships. For example, you might design an escort that will never be deployed alone, so it doesn't need long-range sensors. Or you might design a large missile warship with no point defence, because it will never go anywhere without escorts. Will you have tankers along, or do your ships need to operate at long distances without logistic support. Do you need fast ships, or just a type of fast ship within your fleet mix that can handle certain situations. When you consider fleet composition, you don't necessarily need a ship that can do everything, or deal with any situation.

I find this to be a pretty good source for that: https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/astromilitary.php#designingnavy
The image below is the general overview of the process to be done here: start on the left and work right, deciding things based on what you already know. Obviously not everything needs to be fleshed out in detail, especially personell management is something you don't really have to do most of the time in Aurora. The link gives a couple of example studies and some more text on what each step means.

[Ultimoos]

Group those new designs into squadrons of 3. You have to have your first battle Have like 15 of those ships total, for now.
Make a copy of your database file. Now, you have to trigger raiders. If you did not change any settings, they will start appearing once you discover 10th star system.
Once they start appearing and will get in range of your squadrons, have one squadron fire a volley on one raider ship. Those 12 missiles should give a good fill of how effective is your force. 12 damage 9 missiles were enough to destroy a typical raider ship before v2.2. I myself did not yet have a confrontation. I'm building up for that now
Depending on a result you can always replace your current database file with the copy you made, so you do not have to start over from beginning.

[Ulzgoroth]

I'd be pessimistic about those missiles less because of raider active missile defenses (my impression, not necessarily reliable, is that those are weak) but because the missiles look like they'll have a lot of trouble hitting the raider ships I've seen. Unless they're retargeting or something and it just isn't showing on the display.

No smeg? Well that's interesting for sure.

Crew space seems surprisingly small on larger ships. Keeping deployment short can be important when trying to cram as much ship as possible under the fighter or FAC tonnage limits, but not as much after that.

[QuakeIV]

I don’t remember crew space ever being a big concern unless I was trying to do a like ten year surveyor ship.