Gothic III - Comments Thread

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Please add any comments in this thread.

[nuclearslurpee]

The subforum name says "conventional", yet the posting of a comment thread without any updates to comment on says "unconventional". Which is to be believed?? 

  Looking forward to this one, Steve!

[vorpal+5]

The fiction was a bit on the short side, but definitely good. I particularly appreciated the cliffhanger near the end.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Added the first section. I am going to do shorter updates on this one, but hopefully more often.

[nuclearslurpee]

Added the first section. I am going to do shorter updates on this one, but hopefully more often.

I am going to do shorter comments on this one, but hopefully more often. 

In 2032, Earth was attacked without warning by an alien armada, which bombarded the surface from orbit. The aliens were apparently only interested in devastating the planet as there was no follow-up invasion.

It was probably for the best, really.

The Emperor decreed that the Imperium would become a star-faring civilization, dedicated to building a military force capable of seeking out and destroying the aliens that had almost wiped out humanity, along with all other potential threats.

Waaaaagh!!!

humanity would venture forth to conquer the stars.

WAAAAAAAGH!!!!!

•   All spoilers active except Rakhas.

...waaaagh?

Consequently, a new small craft design, the jump-capable Aquila class scout, was developed and six were constructed,
...
Eventually, six jump points were discovered in Sol and probed by the Aquilas.

What a convenient coincidence that is in no way related to narrative foreknowledge on the part of the author! 

The geological survey proved disappointing, with nothing of note except the ruins of an alien city on Alpha Centauri-B V, most likely another victim of the same aliens that attacked Terra two thousand years earlier.

I don't know what it is, but Alpha Centauri in my games almost always seems to be pretty much barren, which is rather disappointing for such a famous and nearly always colonizable system. Occasionally I'll have some luck with a gas giant or asteroid belt but it's fairly rare.

Beyond jump points four and five were Barnard’s Star and Andromeda, neither of which held anything of interest.

That's Andromeda, the star. Not to be confused with:

• Andromeda, the constellation
• Andromeda, the galaxy
• Andromeda, the Greek mythological figure

The scout crews were really confused when they transited a jump point and found that last one just floating in space.

[Garfunkel]

Third time's the charm!

[Warer]

Always great time to see one of these going up!

[nuclearslurpee]

It's interesting to see how the warship designs start off with a different sort of 'balance' from the conventional start, especially with limited scientist admin meaning you can't just rush MP drive tech in 10 years. Starting off with the 25cm railguns is certainly different!

I'm curious, Steve, if you've ever considered building your colony ships as hybrid colonist transport + cargo hold vessels that can transport their own infrastructure (200 or 250 per million, I would suppose). These would be pretty massive ships which feels very Warhammer to me.

Gothic class Cruiser

I admit, I'm a little offended that this isn't the Lunar class. Gothics are lance boats, dammit! 

That said, 60,000 tons... really liking the upscaled warship sizes in this one!

Will be interesting to see how the Jotun develop. You did start with 10 NPRs, but from the sound of it the Jotun are probably a minor race and so probably not much use as allies unless the trade income is worth it? So probably a better target for exterminatus. That said, between the Necron threat and yet-to-appear threats from the Dark Eldar, Tyranid, and Chaos factions, will the Imperium have the time and resources to carry out such a holy mission?

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

It's interesting to see how the warship designs start off with a different sort of 'balance' from the conventional start, especially with limited scientist admin meaning you can't just rush MP drive tech in 10 years. Starting off with the 25cm railguns is certainly different!

I'm curious, Steve, if you've ever considered building your colony ships as hybrid colonist transport + cargo hold vessels that can transport their own infrastructure (200 or 250 per million, I would suppose). These would be pretty massive ships which feels very Warhammer to me.

Gothic class Cruiser

I admit, I'm a little offended that this isn't the Lunar class. Gothics are lance boats, dammit! 

That said, 60,000 tons... really liking the upscaled warship sizes in this one!

Will be interesting to see how the Jotun develop. You did start with 10 NPRs, but from the sound of it the Jotun are probably a minor race and so probably not much use as allies unless the trade income is worth it? So probably a better target for exterminatus. That said, between the Necron threat and yet-to-appear threats from the Dark Eldar, Tyranid, and Chaos factions, will the Imperium have the time and resources to carry out such a holy mission?

Yes, I got to 25cm railguns fairly quickly. The Imperium has 30cm railguns and 60,000 km range modifier, but waiting for Capacitor 6 before deploying them, as the 25cm seems better before that point.

These cruisers are much more lance heavy than any of my designs in previous AAR (and the Gothic II will have particle lances) and have no torpedoes, so I went Gothic instead of Lunar

I tend to have more cargo ships than colony ships and also terraform where I can, so I would carrying excess weight in a lot of cases.

I'm past 100 systems now (will be covered in next update), so every possible threat is on the table. I have a much smaller military than normal for a 40K game, so hoping I can fix that before anything too scary turns up. I am currently embarked on my first combat mission to clear a Necron system - its April 4026.

[AlStar]

The Necron light torpedoes started to engage the Expeditionary Force once more,  but the Imperial attack had disrupted the coordination of the waves and they now arrived in alternative salvos of twenty and twelve, posing no significant threat.

Would this be considered a bug in the NPR's targeting routines? I'd think they'd want to mass as many missiles in a given time increment as possible.

The cowardly and duplicitous Jotun would be destroyed and their resources used to fuel the Imperial war machine.

Hey - that looks to be Race040 from my race image pack! Neat to see it in the wild.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

The Necron light torpedoes started to engage the Expeditionary Force once more,  but the Imperial attack had disrupted the coordination of the waves and they now arrived in alternative salvos of twenty and twelve, posing no significant threat.

Would this be considered a bug in the NPR's targeting routines? I'd think they'd want to mass as many missiles in a given time increment as possible.

The cowardly and duplicitous Jotun would be destroyed and their resources used to fuel the Imperial war machine.

Hey - that looks to be Race040 from my race image pack! Neat to see it in the wild.

Yes, there are some issues around the NPRs not always synchronizing their salvos. The situation above, plus another in which they have different fire control ranges.

Yes, I use the pack you created. Thanks for that!

[nuclearslurpee]

Now I'm wondering... with the Imperium occupied by clearing out Necron encampments and now the presence of the T'au (yet to come: Tyranids, Chaos), it seems increasingly likely that the Jotun will stick around for a while as they're too difficult to dislodge yet not a threat to anyone.

Which brings to mind a question: how do the minor NPRs handle the eventuality of running out of resources? With a normal NPR there is always the possibility of expanding to other systems to fuel the war machines, but a minor NPR lacks that option and so would eventually run out. I know NPR ships are, for uhhh reasons, not limited by a lack of fuel or MSP, but the AI pretends that it is and tries to refuel, resupply, etc. those ships - I imagine that drive could cause some difficulties if the minor race is defending their entry JP after 100 years and the refueling AI starts to override the "defend in place" AI.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Now I'm wondering... with the Imperium occupied by clearing out Necron encampments and now the presence of the T'au (yet to come: Tyranids, Chaos), it seems increasingly likely that the Jotun will stick around for a while as they're too difficult to dislodge yet not a threat to anyone.

Which brings to mind a question: how do the minor NPRs handle the eventuality of running out of resources? With a normal NPR there is always the possibility of expanding to other systems to fuel the war machines, but a minor NPR lacks that option and so would eventually run out. I know NPR ships are, for uhhh reasons, not limited by a lack of fuel or MSP, but the AI pretends that it is and tries to refuel, resupply, etc. those ships - I imagine that drive could cause some difficulties if the minor race is defending their entry JP after 100 years and the refueling AI starts to override the "defend in place" AI.

The NPRs do consume fuel and have to produce it. They just don't suffer any penalty for being out of fuel except the overriding priority to refuel, so they will run out eventually.

Maybe I should modify minor races so that at some point they do develop jump capability, but not for several decades after creation.

[nuclearslurpee]

The NPRs do consume fuel and have to produce it. They just don't suffer any penalty for being out of fuel except the overriding priority to refuel, so they will run out eventually.

Maybe I should modify minor races so that at some point they do develop jump capability, but not for several decades after creation.

Another option might be to have minor NPRs ignore the overriding priority for refuel, resupply, etc., either if they're out of fuel completely or at least reducing the priority of that order so they can effectively defend once they run out of resources. Since they are limited to a single system, the go-home-to-refuel behavior isn't as important from the perspective of simulation for the benefit of the player.

[paolot]

The NPRs do consume fuel and have to produce it. They just don't suffer any penalty for being out of fuel except the overriding priority to refuel, so they will run out eventually.

Maybe I should modify minor races so that at some point they do develop jump capability, but not for several decades after creation.

Another option might be to have minor NPRs ignore the overriding priority for refuel, resupply, etc., either if they're out of fuel completely or at least reducing the priority of that order so they can effectively defend once they run out of resources. Since they are limited to a single system, the go-home-to-refuel behavior isn't as important from the perspective of simulation for the benefit of the player.

Another one can be every, let's say, two or three years the game regenerates minerals in the minor race system, and this triggers a (new) geosurvey to find them. This regeneration ends when the system is discovered by another race (the player or a NPRs), and the minor race can now discover/buy/steal the jump drive technology.