The Battle of Wolf 294... an Ad Astra chapter

[blue emu (OP)]

The following is a series of excerpts from my Ad Astra game on the Paradox Games forum.

We pick up the action in the Spring of 2034, as I am finishing the last of my builds and refits (to Ion-engine tech) prior to launching our first counter-attack on our hated enemy the Prix (the Precursors). A Prix force of unknown strength is in control of the Wolf 294 system, only one jump from our newest colony in Sigma Draconis. Our scout only spotted one enemy ship and one wreck before being destroyed... but the possibility exists that additional undiscovered enemy are present in the system.

May 15th, 2034. All of the Fleet refits are complete except for those to the Defiant and the Totally Pissed Off, both of which are currently refitting to Attitude-II standard. The remainder of the fleet has just completed a training exercise, and will now be overhauled so that they will be fresh and ready for the general fleet engagement by the time the last two refits are done.

ESN Defiant has finished her overhaul. One more to go. ESN Paranoid has been laid down in the empty slip.
(... later...) The last Attitude will finish refitting, and the last two new Carriers will finish building, by the end of October of this year: three more months. All other preparations will be complete by then, and we can kick-off the Prix-squashing expedition in early November.

Two more months remain before the last two Carriers will be launched. I will be sending the slower ships out to Sigma Draconis a month ahead of the Combined Fleet, so that everybody arrives in the battle area at about the same time.

The slow elements of the Combined Fleet have already departed for Sigma Draconis. The fast elements will leave in less than a month, when the last two Carriers are launched and equipped with Fighters, and when the final Attitude => Attitude-II conversion is finished.

The line-up for the battle will be:

two Admiral-II class Command Ships
two Rock class Decoy Vessels
six Mountain-II class Light Carriers, carrying ten Fighters each (60 total)
five Attitude-II class Light Cruisers
five Star-II class Destroyers
three Reptile class Mine-layers

... that's 21 combat vessels plus two decoys.

Plus a support fleet of non-combatants:

four Gas Station class Tankers
two Wrecker class Salvage Ships
four Mule class Freighters
one Mayflower class Colony Ship (to assist the Civilian ships through the jump point)

October 28th, 2034... the last Cruiser comes out of refit, and we're off! The Combined Fleet heads through the Ross 248 and Struve 2398 systems, to rendezvous with the slower fleet elements in the Sigma Draconis system before making the jump to the Prix-dominated and wreckage-strewn Wolf 294 system.

By the way, is there any pre-attack plan? Tactical doctrine?

Decoy vessels out in front, with their Active Sensors on. The bulk of the fleet (Command Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers) behind them, but within point defense range, sensors off until the Prix show up. Carriers behind that, but staying close, also in stealth mode. Reptile Mine-Layers behind the Carriers. All the Commercial vessels wait on the Sigma Draconis side of the jump point until we've dealt with the Prix.

I'd like to get the Prix shooting at the decoys, then flip on our sensors, launch Fighters, and let them have it.

Our first Battle class Heavy Cruiser has been launched. Three more building, but not due for nearly two years.

Hmmm.... our fleet is only moving at about 2000 kps towards the Wolf system, because the Reptiles are slowing it down. I wonder if the Battle (4000 kps) can catch up to them before they reach the jump point? It might be a good plan to wait for it anyway. Having an extra Cruiser along can't hurt.

EDIT: Yeah... we'll wait for it. Won't take too long to get there, at 4000 kps.

Commodore Billy Bob has been placed in charge of the Battle class Heavy Cruiser ESN Agincourt.

Captain von Sachsen has been placed in charge of the Attitude-II class Light Cruiser ESN Defiant.

Commander GaiusC is promoted to Captain and placed in command of the Star-II class Destroyer ESN Sirius.

The scattered elements of our fleet gather in the Sigma Draconis system, to prepare for the jump to Wolf 294.



January 19th 2035. All is prepared. The Colony Ship has arrived at the jump point to assist the Decoy Vessels through to the Wolf 294 system. The Tanker convoy has arrived, and our Combined Fleet has fully refueled from it.

We are ready...

[blue emu (OP)]

Does anyone know which posts have details for the Attitude II and Battle class cruisers?

Battle class Heavy Cruiser    15,000 tons     1490 Crew     2886.1 BP      TCS 300  TH 600  EM 360
4000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-54     Shields 12-300     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 17     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 105%    IFR: 1.5%    Maint Capacity 2044 MSP    Max Repair 900 MSP    Est Time: 1.57 Years
Magazine 254   

J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (20)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 60.0 billion km   (173 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  96 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 4 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC15-R100 (1)     Range 15.1m km    Resolution 100
Missile Fire Control FC6-R1 (2)     Range 6.5m km    Resolution 1
Size 4c Anti-ship Missile (44)  Speed: 25,500 km/s   End: 11m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 5    Size: 4    TH: 187 / 112 / 56
Size 1c Anti-missile Missile (78)  Speed: 34,200 km/s   End: 3.3m    Range: 6.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 228 / 136 / 68

Active Search Sensor MR28-R100 (1)     GPS 4800     Range 28.8m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1)     GPS 108     Range 6.5m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Attitude II class Light Cruiser    12,000 tons     1161 Crew     2166.3 BP      TCS 240  TH 480  EM 360
4000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-46     Shields 12-300     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 22
Annual Failure Rate: 104%    IFR: 1.5%    Maint Capacity 1241 MSP    Max Repair 576 MSP    Est Time: 1.53 Years
Magazine 182 
 
J12000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (16)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 46.9 billion km   (135 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  96 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Size 4 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
PD Missile Fire Control FC4-R1 (2)     Range 4.3m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC21-R100 (1)     Range 21.6m km    Resolution 100
Size 4 Buoy (1)  Speed: 0 km/s   End: 337.5d    Range: 0m km   WH: 0    Size: 4    TH: 0 / 0 / 0
Size 4c Anti-ship Missile (32)  Speed: 25,500 km/s   End: 11m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 5    Size: 4    TH: 187 / 112 / 56
Size 1c Anti-missile Missile (50)  Speed: 34,200 km/s   End: 3.3m    Range: 6.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 228 / 136 / 68

Active Search Sensor MR28-R100 (1)     GPS 4800     Range 28.8m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1)     GPS 108     Range 6.5m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Admiral II class Command Ship    14,000 tons     1406 Crew     3004.1 BP      TCS 280  TH 570  EM 360
4071 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-51     Shields 12-300     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 12
Annual Failure Rate: 98%    IFR: 1.4%    Maint Capacity 2146 MSP    Max Repair 900 MSP    Est Time: 1.72 Years
Flag Bridge    Magazine 172   

J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (19)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 40.2 billion km   (114 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  96 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (12)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC6-R1 (4)     Range 6.5m km    Resolution 1
Size 1b Anti-missile Missile (172)  Speed: 31,200 km/s   End: 3.6m    Range: 6.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 208 / 124 / 62

Active Search Sensor MR18-R1 (1)     GPS 300     Range 18.0m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR50-R100 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 50.4m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Star II class Missile Destroyer    8,000 tons     822 Crew     1293.9 BP      TCS 160  TH 330  EM 360
4125 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-35     Shields 12-300     Sensors 6/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 22
Annual Failure Rate: 128%    IFR: 1.8%    Maint Capacity 404 MSP    Max Repair 256 MSP    Est Time: 1.12 Years
Magazine 150   

J8000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 8000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (11)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 42.2 billion km   (118 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  96 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Size 4 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
PD Missile Fire Control FC4-R1 (2)     Range 4.3m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC21-R100 (1)     Range 21.6m km    Resolution 100
Size 4 Buoy (1)  Speed: 0 km/s   End: 337.5d    Range: 0m km   WH: 0    Size: 4    TH: 0 / 0 / 0
Size 4c Anti-ship Missile (24)  Speed: 25,500 km/s   End: 11m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 5    Size: 4    TH: 187 / 112 / 56
Size 1c Anti-missile Missile (50)  Speed: 34,200 km/s   End: 3.3m    Range: 6.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 228 / 136 / 68

Active Search Sensor MR14-R100 (1)     GPS 2400     Range 14.4m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR2-R1 (1)     GPS 36     Range 2.2m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Rock II class Support Vessel    46,850 tons     749 Crew     3131.5 BP      TCS 937  TH 3750  EM 0
4002 km/s     Armour 16-115     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Capacity 42 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP

Ion Engine E0.8 (25)    Power 150    Fuel Use 8%    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 1%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 144.1 billion km   (416 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (9x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Active Civ Search Sensor MR10-R135 (1)     GPS 1458     Range 10.0m km    Resolution 135

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Reptile class Minelayer    11,000 tons     1547 Crew     1581.8 BP      TCS 220  TH 240  EM 0
2181 km/s     Armour 1-44     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 111
Annual Failure Rate: 107%    IFR: 1.5%    Maint Capacity 809 MSP    Max Repair 216 MSP    Est Time: 2.16 Years
Magazine 591   

Ion Engine E8 (8 )    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 40.9 billion km   (217 days at full power)

Size 36 Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 36    Rate of Fire 360
Size 1 Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
PD Missile Fire Control FC4-R1 (1)     Range 4.3m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC31-R120 (1)     Range 31.5m km    Resolution 120

Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1)     GPS 60     Range 4.8m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR31-R120 (1)     GPS 4320     Range 31.5m km    Resolution 120

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

FYI, I deliberately designed the Decoy Vessels to run hot... their Thermal Sig is T-3750, compared to T-600 for our Heavy Cruiser and Light Carriers, T-560 for our Command Cruisers, T-480 for our Light Cruisers, T-320 for our Destroyers and T-240 for our Mine-layers. So the Decoys are about seven times hotter than any other ship in the fleet. Hopefully, they will get their share of attention from the evil Prix. They are also the only ones advancing with active sensors on... the rest of the fleet is following using whatever stealth their shields allow them.

All is ready.



The two decoy vessels formate on a Colony ship... massing over 40,000 tons, they cannot jump in formation with our warships. The Colony ship assists them through the jump point to the wreckage strewn Wolf 294 system.



... and we are in luck. There is an old saying that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and the initial jump to Wolf 294 was the first thing that might have gone wrong. Fortunately, no Prix vessel was lurking in ambush at the jump point, to pounce on us while we were recovering from jump shock.

The Colony ship quickly retreats back through the jump point to the Sigma Draconis system, while the Decoy Vessels flip on their active sensors, run up to full speed, and head out to a position between the jump point (where our main task force will be appearing) and the earlier ambush site where Guillaume HJ's scout ship was destroyed.



The rest of the Combined fleet jumps through into the Wolf system, recovers from jump-shock, and splits up into three more formations. Our Decoy vessels will lead, with the Cruisers and Destroyers about 100,000 km behind them, then the Carriers a similar distance behind that,  and the Mine-sweepers will bring up the rear.



We reach the first set of way-points without incident, and head deeper into the Wolf 294 system, with the fast fleet elements strung out in a compact column and the much slower Minesweepers struggling along in their wake.



Where are the Prix?

[blue emu (OP)]

The fast fleet elements reach the second set of way-points without incident. By now, the slow Mine-Sweepers have fallen about 7.5 million km behind the head of the column, so a pause is ordered at this way-point to allow them to rejoin.



Instead of stopping, the warships continue to mill around the way-point at top speed, however... there's no point in allowing an ambushing Prix ship to get a shot at stationary targets, and we've got plenty of fuel, having refilled our tanks from the Tanker column just before jumping in to Wolf 294.

When the Mine-Sweepers catch up, the head of the column moves off toward the next set of way-points



This leap-frog progression will have to be repeated more than a dozen times before we reach the vicinity of the wrecked scout, so I won't bore you with constant screen-shots of the same thing happening again and again... I will post again when we either encounter the Prix, or safely reach the site of Guillaume HJ's destroyed scout ship.

Ah, my timing is perfect for catching up, time to see how suicidial this command really was

Under my command, every mission is a suicide mission!

We are now about 65 million km deep into the Wolf 294 system... about 1/20th of the way to the wreck of our scout-ship. We would be making much faster progress if I hadn't brought those damn Mine-Layers along... they move at barely half of our best fleet speed. Thinking of just leaving them behind, but I haven't quite run out of patience with them yet, and it would be nice to have a chance to test-out our size-36 MIRV-ed missiles.

We are now nearly half-way to the wreck of our scout-ship.



If the Prix ship just sits and lurks for us near the wreck, it will still be some time before contact is made... but if he detects the active sensor emissions from our decoys, he may zip over this way to investigate.

Our T-1000 Thermal detection range now overlaps the wreck of our scout-ship. If the Prix have sensors anything like ours... and I would expect them to be better, not worse... they should certainly have spotted our T-3750 decoy vessels by now, if they are indeed hanging around the wreck. Either they are already sneaking up on us in stealth mode, or they didn't hang around the wreck site, in which case they are likely back at the habitable planet or at the major wreck-field near it.

We are continuing inward, to pass the wreck of the scout-ship and explore towards the habitable planet.

Our Thermal signature now blankets the habitable planet and the major wreck-field... unless the Prix ship's sensors were seriously damaged in the battle he simply must see us by now. Our T-3750 decoy vessels must stand out like a light-house.



... where could he be?

I just had a time-increment interrupted. I suspect that action is immanent.

It's a trap?

Inscrutable Prix cunning, quite possibly. This recent turn-interrupt makes it seem like he's just now spotted me, though. We are now 64 million km (one set of way-points) short of the scout-ship's wreck.

EDIT:

Just had a second time-increment interrupted. That's two in a row. We've definitely been spotted. Good. It saves us the trouble of searching for him.

Contact.

[blue emu (OP)]

Contact.

Good news and bad news.

Good news: We've found the Prix, and he showed up exactly on the bearing that we're set up to fight on... he's approaching from dead ahead. Our formation won't require any last second adjustments.

Bad news: It's not the same ship as before. That's not good. It means that there are at least two Prix ships left in this system, and since they often operate in pairs, and one Prix wreck is visible, it's entirely possible that there are three of them. This could get tense.

He's a big sucker, too... Thermal sig 2750. Range 48 m-km.

I wonder if I should flip on all my active sensors... it's entirely possible that at least one salvo of missiles is already in flight.

I say trust in the plan. It should be targeting one or both of the rocks, not the fleet proper, just as we intended. Wait until our own fish are in the water before giving away our true capability.

The only worrying part is the missing Prix ship. It may still be a trap, because if I was confident of victory my first priority would be cutting off escape to allow complete annihilation of my opponent.

Edit: @Avernite: Since sensor info is shared, all Prix ships in the system are probably making a course for our position.

it could be a commercial ship, even if it has active sensors and is heading towards you

Heading straight for us. Speed 9614 km/s. That doesn't sound much like a commercial ship. Range 48 m-km... still three times too far away for our missiles, but well within our Fighters out-and-back attack radius (300 m-km). I think I ought to launch Fighters... he's not likely to see them at that range (Thermal signature 36) and I'd hate to get bounced with the Fighters still aboard.

Would it be useful to turn on the sensors, if we send the fighters?

We'll need active sensors for a target solution, of course... but they're still well beyond range of our missiles, and I'd rather get them shooting at our unarmed Decoy Vessels before I reveal our real strike-force. The only real risk in keeping our Fleet's active sensors off is that if they cunningly choose some other target (instead of the Decoy Vessels), we'll be caught with our pants down because our anti-missile PD systems can't fire on the incoming missiles without a target solution. I'm counting on our Decoys to spot the missiles going by if that happens... those two ships do have their active sensors turned on.

My last three turn increments have again been chopped... presumably, they are firing missiles at us.

Can't we at least have the fighters scrambled but not moving beyond the fleet for an intecept yet?

That way they're all out of the hangars and ready to go (and possibly providing additional targets for enemy misisles!).

Already done... all six Fighter Squadrons have been launched, and are following (rather than leading) the Fleet towards the enemy.

If the missiles are already starting to fly, then perhaps we should flip on the active sensors from a single one of our command ships.

I've thought seriously about that possibility... but I would really prefer to keep our real strength stealthed as long as possible.

The Prix ship hasn't turned on its own active sensor yet (or at least, I haven't detected it), so unless he's using Homing Missiles, he can't have a target solution yet either. If he is using Homing Missiles, then presumably they should home in on the nearest, largest or thermally-brightest targets... and the Decoy Vessels are closest to him, and larger and hotter than any other ship in the fleet.

There are two levels of risk in this situation: the risk of getting caught with our defenses down (no PD sensors active), and the risk of blowing our cover and losing the advantage that we would derive from the decoys. I would prefer to cross my fingers and continue the plan, rather than let him stampede me into showing my hand too early, while we are still far out of engagement range. We need to close by another 30 m-km before we can shoot at anything but incoming missiles. Since he's more than twice as fast as we are, I would prefer that he closed on us, rather than us trying to close on him.

[blue emu (OP)]

  ... he's turned around and is now steering course 210 degrees instead of 49 degrees (which was his closing trajectory). What the heck is going on? If he had first turned on his active sensor and then reversed course, I would assume that he had fired off a salvo of missiles and wanted to stand off out of our range while they ran in... but my instruments picked up no sign of sensor emissions. Could this be a commercial Prix ship, whose sensors are so poor that he only noticed us just now?

He's picked us up on passive sensors?

That's the obvious conclusion... but why is he running away? Course 210 is almost directly away from us. You would expect a Prix warship to close in, not run away. I am starting to believe that this new ship isn't a warship at all... which still leaves the REAL Prix warship (the one than whacked Guillaume HJ) unaccounted-for. It's around here somewhere.

Or, considering that he MAY have been firing missiles already, he's returning home to reload? Or merely standing off after launching the first salvo?

What did he use for a target solution? He never turned on any active sensors. Unless he is relying entirely on homing warheads, he can't possibly hit us without a target solution (normally provided by a combination of active sensors and fire control computers).

Where does his course lead him? Planet? Jump point?

I don't know where the jump points ARE... our scout was killed before he could survey the system. Course 210 degrees does NOT take him directly towards any planet or wreck.

Perhaps they out range us and are trying to keep at a distance where they can fire and we cannot return fire.

Then why hasn't he turned on his active sensors to obtain a firing solution? He cannot shoot without one... not unless he's relying entirely on Homing Missiles.

You never saw him turn on an active sensor, in any case; or is that impossible to miss?

In order to obtain a firing solution, he must bounce a "ping" off of me that is strong enough to travel all the way back to him, and still be detectable. Since it has to travel distance X to reach me, and distance 2*X to reach me and then return to him, the inverse square law indicates that the "ping" will be four times as strong when it reaches me as when it returns to him. It's hard to believe that he heard it and I didn't. I've got both of my Command Cruisers (AWACS ships) along, remember. They've got pretty good sensors.

Naturally, he could be just "blind firing" Homing Missiles at us, and relying on them to aquire their own targets once they get close to us... I guess we'll find out in half an hour or so. That's about how long I would expect them to take to run-in.

This is very tense

It's particularly tense because I don't have a clue what's happening. Is this a Military ship, or Civilian? Did he just attack us with Homing Missiles and then stand off, or did he just notice us now and start fleeing?

Well... when in doubt, stick to the plan. We are still headed for the junk-yard in orbit around Wolf 294 A-II.

What is our plan if the Prix refuse combat?

That would be very annoying. We probably have enough force to defeat a pair of Prix warships. I'm not at all certain that we have enough to force them to battle if they don't want to fight... they are more than twice as fast as us, remember. Covering a wreckage-recovery operation would be similarly tense, since we would have at least six civilian ships to guard, and their large size and hot signatures would make them natural targets.

I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. It's still possible that the Prix warship(s) actually WANT a fight, and are just out-of-position at the moment.

Actually, even your command ships (and every ship in your fleet?) have the crappy default EM detection value of 1. For example, the Admiral II class' 50m GPS 8400 search sensor could only be detected at 8.4m with EM detection rating of 1. It's quite possible he managed to ping you without you seeing it.

We'll know when the missiles get here... or don't.

The Prix ship has fled beyond detection range.

Quite. A salvo of fifteen missiles just arrived. No prior warning by thermal imaging. As anticipated, they attacked one of our Decoy Vessels.



Seven missiles missed, one was shot down by CIWS, seven hit... resulting in minor spallation of the outer armor.



... just a few dents, no-where deeper than two rows out of sixteen.

Going to active sensors now, and re-launching the Fighters as soon as they are refueled.

[OAM47]

Ah, good read so far.  I remember you from Paradox, though wasn't sure it WAS you at first.  I still remember that signature about invading the Soviet Union 

[Goron]

Thanks blue emu, now I can read while at work :-)
I just wish Paradox hadn't killed their tapatalk plugin...

[blue emu (OP)]

Holy ****! There's FIVE of them!... and at least one more, because none of these dudes is the guy who waxed our scout.






This looks pretty serious 

They're still well out of our firing range, too.

hate to say I told you so, but...

I told you so.

Another salvo of 12 missiles arrives before our PD missiles can travel far enough to intercept them. Once again, the Decoy Vessel ESNT Granite is the target. Five incoming missiles miss, two are destroyed by the CIWS, and the remaining five impact on the outer armor. One lucky hit lands directly in the crater left by a missile in the earlier salvo, and chews down into the fourth layer of armor. All the other hits do only minor damage, landing on fresh or nearly-fresh patches of armor.

Our PD missiles are now passing the ESNT Granite, and reaching out to intercept incoming missiles before they get close enough to do further damage.

I'd seriously consider pulling back towards the jump point.

Permission to speak without being accused of cowardice.

I believe we should engage in a tactical withdrawal out of the system.

We do no thave the capability to engage the enemy, and our anti-missile defenses are quite limited.

We're going to require a serious upgrading of our fleet to even contend with these Prix warships.

Don't know if that's a good idea at this point, if we are far away from the jump point, they could follow and take us apart while fleeing, still keeping out of range all the time.

Considering the speed of the prix, couldn't they overtake us fairly easily?

Of course, but what good are we going to do staying in the system getting hit from afar?

They can outrun any of our ships if we get into firing range.

While retreating might be a good idea in theory, I don't see how it offers us any chance of survival. It would take us quite literally several DAYS to reach the jump point out. The Prix are more than twice as fast as us, and could easily follow us and stay at optimum missile range until they've expended their entire load-out.

Since with that plan, our survival would be dependant on the Prix running out of ammunition before they've finished destroying all of our ships... why don't we attack instead? If we do that, we can still survive if the Prix run out of ammo... but we could also survive by killing all the Prix warships!

Opinions?

If we run, they will simply follow and snipe us to the last man. If they make a stand, we have a chance to overpower them.

Of the next two incoming 4-missile salvos, our PD missiles kill six... leaving only two missiles to continue on towards the Decoy Ship Granite, which we assume to be the intended target.

The enemy are still heading straight for us, but still out of our firing range by about 18 million km. I have ordered all ships to charge the enemy.

Three more incoming missiles are destroyed, and another salvo of four has been sighted at extreme PD range.

I have turned off PD missile interception for most of the fleet, and am only firing intercepts with a few ships on each round, to avoid running dry... to-Hit chances are around 20-odd percent, which gives us roughly a 50-50 chance of a kill with each 3-missile salvo... and the ones that make it through our PD screen only score hits about half of the time, even if the Decoy Ship's CIWS misses them.

It is barely possible that if the Prix hold course, continue closing on us and continue shooting at our Decoy Ship, we just might survive this.

[blue emu (OP)]

Two more incoming missiles are intercepted, and the two missiles that penetrate our PD screen fail to hit their targets. No damage from that salvo.

The five Prix warships continue on course, headed straight for us... poor tactics, given their superior missile range, and it represents our only hope of surviving this desperate battle.

Four more successful PD intercepts deplete the next two incoming salvos by half. So far, we are averaging somewhat better than the 20-odd percent that the numbers would indicate... Leadership modifiers, perhaps? A stacked bonus from our Flag Bridge, added to the usual Captain's bonus?

I don't know... First we were all talking about how the fleet could probably defeat a single Prix ship, and now we're suddenly forced into a fight with five of them. I don't like fighting with someone else's rules.

The enemy seems to have switched targets... to our OTHER Decoy Vessel. Excellent, they will last longer if the enemy switches fire back and forth. Of the four incoming missiles that penetrated our PD screen, one misses, two are killed by the CIWS, and only one scores a hit, inflicting minor damage on ESNT Basalt's armor.

Two more 4-missile salvos are sighted at extreme PD range.

The six surviving missiles from the previous two 4-missile salvo which penetrated our PD screen all miss their target and explode harmlessly. No hits. Our PD missiles which were fired at the next wave of incoming missiles (again, two salvos of four) manage to kill six out of eight. The remaining two are unlikely to score more than one hit between them.

How are our PD stores looking?

Not too bad... I've only got two (of five) destroyers firing PD, none of the five Cruisers, and both of our Command Cruisers which have nothing but PD missiles in their magazines... hundreds of rounds between the two of them. Since all of my ships are in the same fleet, I can even pass spare missiles back and forth between the ships (as unrealistic as that sounds).

Of the two surviving missiles that slipped through the PD screen last round, both are successfully destroyed by ESNT Basalt's nine CIWS turrets. No damage.

I see our fighters have sortied again.

Yes, the Fighters have refueled and have been launched again.

Over the next two rounds, our PD screen destroys six more incoming missiles, ESNT's sharpshooting CIWS picks off two more, and the remainder miss. No damage.

The Prix ships are still closing in, but still far beyond our attack range.

Two more incoming salvos of four are detected at extreme PD range... just how many missiles do these Prix have, anyway?

Eight more incoming missiles are blown to bits as they attempt to penetrate our PD screen... and yet another eight (two salvos of four) are detected at extreme range.

Who will run out of ammo first?

The Prix have switched targets again... apparently giving up on our Decoy Ships, they have begun firing on our Battle Fleet!

Heavy Cruiser ESN Agincourt takes a hit, but her shields absorb all of the damage. Two more hits like that will breach the hull, however... so I set her idle PD launchers into "Point Blank" mode.

So far, the incoming salvos have always arrived as two salvos of four missiles... but this time, only one salvo of four appears at extreme range. Could the Prix finally be running low on ammo?

What a God-send THAT would be!

Your defense seems very good so far.
How far away from firing range are the fleet?

Another 17 million km. Hopefully, the Prix are closing in to ram, because if they turn away, we'll never catch them.

[blue emu (OP)]

Our PD screen takes out five more missiles, but several get through. Our Heavy Cruiser ESN Agincourt takes two more hits; the first collapses her weakened shields and the second bites into her armor. Another hit in the same spot will penetrate.

Is it just me or are the salvos just too small considering what we know of the number of ships out there?

I think only two of the five ships are actually firing at us, so far. The other three are probably either Beam ships, or armed with heavier missiles that won't reach this far.

Over the next two rounds, eight more enemy missiles are intercepted. None hit. Our stock of PD missiles is steadily dwindling... but will it out-last the Prix's stock of anti-ship missiles?

Maybe have the Agincourt drop speed for a few minutes so it's a tiny bit behind the main fleet? That way the Prix will probably switch to a closer target, and if not their missiles will have to run the gauntlet of the entire fleets PD.

Is it possible to pull the Agincourt back some to try and get the Prix to change targets?

At the very least it might make it harder for them to hit it with further salvoes!

The problems with pulling the Agincourt back are... first, I would have to split the fleet and give them their own task force. Any change to orders under combat conditions incurs a delay, varying in length with crew training. In the mean-time, I'm not sure whether they would be moving or not. If stationary, every incoming missile will hit (100% to-Hit chance). Also, I would hate to drop back out of the PD screen... those sixth and seventh Prix ships are still unaccounted-for.

Our PD screen intercepts another six incoming missiles, leaving three to home in on the Heavy Cruiser Agincourt. Her CIWS gets one, but the other two slam into her and detonate. One hits an intact stretch of armor which absorbs the damage, but the other strikes the same spot that was already damaged by an earlier salvo, breaching the armor completely.



Miraculously, there is no internal damage... this time. The missile had expended all of its force breaching the armor, and none remained to destroy the ship's exposed innards.

Four more Prix ships have appeared, in line-of-bearing behind the five we are already engaged with.



This is starting to look serious! :rofl:

None of them are the ship that waxed our scout, and none of them are the ship we encountered earlier today... so that makes at least eleven Prix ships in the system.

Perhaps we should activate our remaining PD systems to try and keep the Agincourt alive.

Already done. I'm starting to get a bit concerned, though. And not just about the Agincourt...

you should withdraw all the minelayers, to save at least them, also, are yur fighters flying with full speed?

What do the rest of you think? Are we still playing this to win? Or should we play to save three of our 24 ships?

I vote play to win.

No Retreat!

The enemy ships are more than four times faster than the mine-layers, and we're at least a week away from escaping through the jump point. I honestly think that our only chance of survival is to win the battle. Running isn't much good when the enemy can run more than four times faster.

I second this !

Given they will probably totally OWN us at least try to kill a couple of them....
.... and prepare your revenge 

What scares me is not the loss of ships and build-time, but rather the loss of raw materials that our Le Grand Armada represent. We have a resource problem, and loosing a lot of resources (albeit in a processed form) will sting us.

Yeah, let's kill what we can kill, learn what we can learn, and prepare for our next Prix engagement...

[blue emu (OP)]

How much of an impact do you think the fighters will have? Do they typically carry munitions that can harm ships of the size you see deployed against you or are they simply there to screen for inbound Prix fighters?

Each fighter carries three anti-ship missiles. Sixty fighters... 180 missiles in total. If only we can get them into engagement range.

Just when everything looks darkest, is there a slim ray of hope? Every incoming missile salvo so far has been a salvo of four size-4 missiles... usually in pairs of salvos, meaning eight incoming missiles in each wave.

... but this last salvo is a pair of single missiles, not a pair of four-missile salvos. Are the five closest Prix ships nearly out of ammo?

Could this be the break we needed?!

And if they turn to rearm, then what are our chances of making it back to the jump point?

I don't like our chances against the Prix if they manage to rearm (since they are faster than us, it's 99% likely they'd be rearmed before we could fight them).

Except that there are these other four prix coming up behind the first five.

Still it may be the break we need to turn this into a slow retreat of sort - leave the shieldship and perhaps Agincourt behind, and withdraw the rest of the fleet. Then when they catch up to us detach the new rearguard to try and delay them a few rounds...

Except that all those "speed bumps" will buy us a few minutes at most, and we need *days* to make it back to the jump point.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

Unfortunately, at this point, I don't think there's much that can be done. They can't be outrun, so the only hope is to get into range and hope that they don't have the armor to withstand our weight of fire. That's doubly-true if the reinforcing ships can keep us busy while the first wave rearms and returns to the fight. I wonder, how long does rearmament usually take?

Perhaps a possibility. But even then, we're days from the jump point, aren't we?

It's unlikely we'll make it to the point where we can escape.

And remember...as far as we suspect, only two of these prix have been firing at us. So three of them may either be energy weapon vessels, or be armed with loads of not-yet-fired heavier, shorter range missiles.

How long until we get in range to open up on those Prix?

Another 14 or 15 million km.

There is no sign of another salvo coming in behind that pair of singles. It should have registered on our screens by now... the singles are more than a million km inside my PD screen already. I really do believe that we've shot those two ships out of (long range) missiles. Now the big question is: do any of those five ships also carry shorter-ranged, heavier missiles? And can their buddies, following behind them, reach us with their missiles before we come within firing range of the first five ships?

I say go out all guns blazing, fire everything try to take as many of them with us as possible.

Unfortunately, their last full ( 4 x 2 ) salvo might take out the Agincourt... we picked off five of them, but three of the missiles have passed unscathed through my PD screen and are homing in on her.

Agincourt has held up very well for being the focus of so much of their fire - that's what, the fifth salvo she takes?

As expected, all three of the incoming missiles evaded our last-ditch CIWS defense and slammed into the ESN Agincourt... and all three hit intact stretches of armor, and failed to penetrate!

Before:



After:



... that was lucky! They couldn't have been positioned any more harmlessly if I'd placed them by hand, on the outside of the ship!

Only one single still incoming, until we come in range of some other missiles.

EDIT: and we pick it off with our PD missiles! Our screen is now clear, except for the incoming warships, with the nearest group 31.5 m-km away, and the further group over 50 m-km distant.

... so ESN Agincourt is looking pretty beat-up, but has still suffered zero internal damage. If we somehow manage to win this battle, she'll need a new paint-job, at the very least.

... it's hard to believe that we survived that opening skirmish, and still haven't taken a single internal hit... and we haven't (quite) used up half of our PD missiles yet. I suspect that we'll need the remainder shortly.

[blue emu (OP)]

How long in game time did really past yesterday? It can´t have been long.

I was using five-second turns, so the battle itself lasted only a few minutes.

Now that the missile-storm has been weathered, should all of our fast fleet elements except the Fighters turn back towards the Mine-layers, in order to bring the Mine-layer long-range support (those size-36 MIRV-ed launchers) into overlap with the Fleet's range, and to get the Fighters out in front?

Hmn, I'd push for missile range at any cost, reverse heading once we can actually start shooting, the minelayers didn't have all that many of those missiles or? (And do they also still carry mines? could as well lay a field somewhere, where a 'possible escape route' would go through, though better do that just before they get in range to shoot proper missiles if we have the mines).

The mine-layers aren't carrying any mines, and they only have enough size-36 missiles for four three-tube salvos each. However, each MIRV-ed salvo releases 18 sub-munitions, so their total weapon load (three tubes each times three minelayers times four salvos) is 216 sub-munitions.

Depends on what they [the Prix] have left, if they are out of long range missiles and need to close to say 1m km for beams, surely we could scatter fast enough for that?

Until the second group came in range. They are only about 15 m-km beyond engagement range, and are more than twice as fast as us... and we have billions (not millions, but billions) of km to go to reach the jump point out. They could probably catch even scattered single ships, in that time. Their detection tech is a lot higher than ours, like everything else.

Scattering might actually be the most sensible idea, but I think the balance of opinion (both mine and that of the Forum members) is to try and fight it out.

I just did a quick count of the number of player-characters on-board the fleet... and it looks like thirty-seven Forum members, including ship captains and Fighter pilots.

This game is taking on Werewolf-esque forms of slaughter.

We're not beaten yet!

That will happen later.

During the lull in the action, I've been juggling our remaining PD missiles around, by designating different ships as "Colliers" or "Tenders". We've managed to bring the two Admiral-II Point Defense ships back up to about 3/4 of their full load-out of PD missiles, and all of the remaining ships still have enough for a few salvos. It's a shame that the three mine-layers are so far away... they've got a bunch of PD missiles that they have had no opportunity to fire, but they're too far away to transfer them to another ship.

I've reversed course temporarily with the Carriers and the Battle Group (Cruisers and Destroyers), to let the Rocks move further out in front so that they will soak up more fire (ie: so that they will be the only targets within enemy range for a longer period), and to concentrate our fleet towards the mine-layers, to bring their longer-range weapons within overlap distance. The Rocks and the Fighter Squadrons continue on course.

Oddly enough, the second enemy group (of four ships, we'll call it Bandit 2) doesn't appear to be heading directly for us. They are headed towards a point about 6 degrees in front of us... possibly an intercept course.

The lull has continued for several minutes. It seems clear that the five-ship group Bandit 1 has indeed shot themselves out of long-range missiles. We can all hope that they have no short-range launchers.

It's a good question just how far we want to fall back towards the Mine-Layers with the Carriers and Battle Fleet. The bigger the gap we open, the closer our mine-layers are to the action and the longer the enemy will have to focus on pounding on our Rocks instead of on our fighting ships... but the bigger the gap, the longer it will take to recover and rearm the fighters. They can only fire once (three missiles each) before we need to recover and rearm them.

Right now, the gap is about a million km... ten times further than our original 100,000 km gap. I think we'll reverse course again, and head back towards the enemy. I don't want to build up too much seperation between the Carriers and the Fighters, because I'd like to be able to re-arm them fairly quickly for subsequent strikes.

The ESN Agincourt's shields are now back up to full strength.

The closest enemy group, Bandit 1, is now 13 m-km beyond our firing range. Of course, if they have ECM, we might have to get quite a bit closer than that.

[blue emu (OP)]

As odd as it sounds, we're actually in fairly decent shape so far. We've lost quite a bit of Armor... from Granite and from Agincourt in particular... but we've taken no internals yet and we still have plenty of PD missiles. We just need to close in to firing range, and see if our own missiles can penetrate their PD screen. It would really be cool if these five ships have no short-range heavy missile launchers... let's see how THEY like being shot at without being able to reply. We've been there, and done that...

Bandit-2 has divided into two 2-ship groups, steering slightly diverging courses.



... we'll call the Genghis / Khan group Bandit-3.

What are your impressions so far into the battle with your own designs? Will there be any drastic changes for the next generation of warships?

Yes, indeed. We need to work on EM sensors, since we failed to detect it when the first Prix warship painted us. We need a third (middle) layer for our point defense. We need to work harder on Beam weapons... I've been studying them intensively for three years or so, but more work is needed. We need faster ships and faster missiles, and should try to armor all of our ships.

We need to build a mix of jump-capable and non-jump warships... that will allow us to carry more armor and weapons in half of our ships.

The "Rock" idea seems to have proved its worth, but we could use some bigger ones, with more armor and more CIWS.

All of this will require more mineral production, of course... but I've been working on that pretty intensovely for a few years, and we now have hundreds of automated mines and maybe a dozen mag catapults. Our first priority will be to bankroll those into even more minerals, and use those to build even more automated mines and mag catapults.

The nearest enemy group, Bandit-1, is now less than 10 m-km out of firing range... although if they have ECM, we might need to get rather closer than that.

All three enemy groups still holding intercept course... range to Bandit-1 less than 25 m-km, which puts them about 8 m-km beyond our extreme range. Bandits 2 and 3 are still over 40 m-km distant. No turn-increment interrupts yet... presumably, Bandits 2 and 3 haven't yet launched any missiles.

Range to Bandit-1 now 22.8 m-km, only 6 m-km beyond our extreme range. Still no turn-interrupts from the other two groups.

Bandit-2 and Bandit-3 will probably be entering firing range of us around the same time... give or take five minutes or so... as we enter firing range of Bandit-1. Of course, if their ECM is good, that calculation might prove to be optimistic. Perhaps fatally so.

Still... after we found out what we were really up against, I didn't actually expect to survive THIS long, so everything from here on in is just a bonus.

Glad to see the leadership is so optimistic about our fate. Still, we accepted this could happen when we decided to proceed, and we have a much better idea of what's needed in future.

What will be the approximate size of our own missile volleys, and how many can we launch? What sort of yield do our combined missiles have? I'm a little bit suspicious about whether we'll have the fire power to destroy all nine precursors, even assuming we get through their PD. Hard to say without knowing their shielding/armour, though.

Sixty Fighters carrying three missiles each is 180 missiles per fleet salvo, and the Carriers can reload them six more times... assuming that the Carriers themselves survive that long.

Five Star-II class Destroyers with four A/S tubes each is 20 Missiles per salvo, and each carries enough reloads for five more full salvos.

Five Attitude-II class Light Cruisers with four A/S tubes each is 20 missiles per salvo, and each carries enough reloads for seven more full salvos.

One Battle Class Heavy Cruiser with six A/S tubes is 6 missiles per salvo, with enough reloads for six more full salvos.

The six Carriers only carry PD plus reloads for the Fighters.

Three Mine-Layers with three size-36 MIRV-ed A/S tubes, each ship capable of putting two size-8 and 16 size-2 missiles on target with each full salvo, and carrying reloads for three more salvos.

I'm not sure I remember ship numbers right, but I counted 46 size 4 tubes + minelayers, soo... Yea, volley's will be bigger than theirs at least...
I'd suggest a volley per ship, and re assign targets after we see what gets though or not.

We might not want to wait until our missiles run all the way out to the targets... that would take more than ten minutes. Better to shoot ourselves dry than to have some of our ships killed with missiles still on-board, no?

Ranges down to 21.5 m-km (Bandit-1) and 40.1 m-km (Bandits 2 and 3)... and we just got a turn-increment interrupt. Presumably, Bandits 2 and 3 are launching missiles against us.

[blue emu (OP)]

Yeah... we are now getting turn-increment interrupts every five seconds. Everybody brace yourselves for another Missile-storm.

It could be Bandits 2 and 3 shooting at us, or it could be Bandit-1 firing shorter-ranged heavy missiles.

We should be able to tell once they arrive, judging by the angle-of-approach.

Well, dang. So much for getting in firing range before they do. Let's hope it's a limited salvo and not a massive murderous broadside.

Five interrupts so far, which means at least five salvos (a sixth might have been simultaneous with the end-of-turn just preceding the series of interrupts). Range to Bandit-1, 21.2 m-km. Five more m-km to go until we find out how good his ECM is.

Eight interrupts so far.

If and when we do get within missile range of Bandit-1, how should we divide the spreads from the fighters?

Each of the six squadrons can fire 30 missiles. Should it be 180 vs one ship? Or 90 vs each of two? Or 60 vs each of three? Or 30 vs each of four and 60 vs the other one?

We can't count on very many of them hitting, what with the 9500 km/s speed, enemy PD and CIWS, and probable ECM.

I say concentrate fire, on one of the ships that hasn't fired missiles (assuming you know which are which). There are no prizes for scratching the paint job of all their ships.

That said, I wouldn't expend more than a tenth of your total bang on one of their nine ships.

I'm inclined to split at least two ways... we've only got enough Fighter reloads for six more salvos, so I'd like to take down or cripple two with each salvo. That's still 90 missiles each, which hopefully will do something. If we only cripple them instead of killing them, we can finish them off with the 46-missile fleet salvos.

Up to 13 interrupts now... these better not all be missile salvos.

I've gone through the last 12 pages of this thread, and counted 96 missiles that the Prix fired in the first round (unless I miscounted, or that not all missiles were posted). And they did minor damage to 3 ships, with no internal damage in any.

What are the chances that OUR missiles will fare any better?

We aren't planning on launching them in nice little volleys of 8, and we had twenty ships providing an interlocking PD network whereas they have three small squadrons. Hopefully it will be enough.

As stated above, the Prix weren't launching 226 missiles at a time. We might.

Range to Bandit-1 now down to 3.5 m-km beyond our extreme missile range. Still no sign of those incoming missile salvos. It looks like it's going to get very busy, all at once.

We have now gone through 20 successive turn-length interrupts. I hope to God these aren't all missile salvos, because we'll have a hard time surviving that.

Now 3.3 m-km beyond range.

Bandit-1 has closed to 19.9 m-km... only 3 m-km beyond maximum range. Still no sign of those incoming salvos.

Bandit-1 is now at 19.3 m-km... only 2.5 m-km beyond range.



So... once we get them within our firing range, just how close should we let them come before we open up on them? I assume that their ECM makes it harder for us to hit them at long range... or does it shorten our effective Fire Control range? Anyone know how ECM works?

@Emu: I understand ECMs shorten missile range (burning more fuel to correct) and decrease beam accuracy (firing at a false image), with potentially disastrous consequences if you fire missiles at extreme range. I've not tried it myself though.

Yeah, I found a post by SteveW:

ECM reduces range against missiles and reduces chance to hit against beams.

Now... does that mean that my missile fire control won't give me a lock (a firing solution) at long range, so I can't fire until I close in more... or will it give me one and let me fire, but the missile run out of gas part-way there?

From what I gather you just wont be able to lock.

Bandit-1 has entered missile range of our six Fighter squadrons.



As expected, we are not able to lock onto them... no doubt because of their advanced ECM. We will continue to close in, checking periodically to see if our fire control computers have worked out a firing solution yet.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Cool stuff. Coincidentally I was reading the paradox thread for this AAR when I saw this. I was about 40 pages in out of... some ridiculous number. I skipped to the end and saw the AAR was over? I hope this battle got finished