Terraforming to Ministry of Technology?

[areyoua (OP)]

According to the charter, the Technology Minister now controls terraforming, but in a 4-2-2-0-0-0 vote (see the problem with multiple choices?) the Infrastructure Ministry won the right to control Terraforming, not the Technology Minister, which was one of the choices with no votes. I would personally request that the power of terraforming be split between Commerce and Infrastructure, but that is not up to me as the majority seems to want to give Infrastructure this power.

George Payne
Infrastructure Minister

[Detjen]

OOC: Sorry that was an error on my part I thought the Technology minister and won  the terraforming vote  and thats not really a problem with multiple choices it celarly indicates the more popular choice went with the infrastructure minister, theres no guarantee the other 4 would have voted nay in a yes/no option, one or more may have chosen yes, but in this case they chose the one that made the most sense to them.    I could always run a second yes no vote if you feel the data is corrupt

[areyoua (OP)]

The problem with multiple choices that I was alluding to was no that the votes were split 3 ways  but because there were three options without any votes. I do agree that the other 4 did not have to be against Infrastructure, and the vote most certainly isn't corrupt just a bit puzzling in that the majority of people voted for a choice with no reason to be supported (though I wonder why there are 8 votes here but only 5 in the Encouragement of Debate).

[Detjen]

OOC I think we get an influx of people voting I dont belive we will have a steady senate but rather those who casually come along and throw in their vote one day but miss a vote the next few.

[ardem]

Which add to why it is important for good debate, those people will read it and hopefully make informed decisions. I think it great for the casual voters, even if some are up for a little mischief.

[Sheb]

I think we need a fundamental redrawing of our colonizing policy. Currently, the task of setting up, maintaining and running colony is split between the minister of infrastructures and the minister of commerce.

I think one ministry should be responsible for terraforming, sending colony ships, requesting infrastructures from the civilian market and managing colony until they are able to stand on their own.

Given all the things the ministry of Infrastructure has to do already, I think the Ministry for Commerce should be in charge (otherwise, I've got nothing to do but order a few freighters and ask to pour money in the civilan lines.) Once the colony reach 10 millions inhabitant, they would fall under the Ministry of Infrastructure's juridiction, while military outpost (small colony used for refuelling and maintaining ships, as well as listening posts) will fall under the Ministry of Military Affair.

Phan Duc Tho, Minister for Commerce and PDG of Spacial Enginnering.

[mavikfelna]

I would second Minister Phan Duc Tho's proposed change.

--Orion Starion

[areyoua (OP)]

What about government owned automated mining colonies? They are obviously not going to have any people on them, so they would fall under the purview of Commerce rather than Infrastructure. However, they aren't colonies and would only require the odd transport to move mines there. The point I am trying to bet across is that Senator Tho's proposal is a indeed a good one, but more specific categories are necessary For example, one could have Colonizing Projects that would consist of less than 10 million colonists and no installations except for terraforming complexes which would be controlled by Commerce. In fact, I believe that we should make this an amendment as soon as possible, and I will start writing it up.

George Payne
Infrastructure Minister

[Sheb]

Automated Mining Operations fall under the same category as Mining Ship and Sorium Harvesting. Now, who control those is open to debate.

[Father Tim]

My Honourable Colleague Phan Duc Tho, Minister for Commerce, makes several excellent points.  Certainly, I see no reason why Terraforming should fall under the Ministry of Technology, and I presume the suggestion of such was merely an error on the part of some lowly secretary.  Of the far more sensible suggestion that Terraforming be placed within the Ministry of Infrastructure, it seems to me an unnecessary duplication of resources, given that many colonies - and here I am thinking primarily of mining colonies, both government and civilian - would have very little to do with the conventional responsibilities of the Ministry for Infrastructure.  These colonies, as well as other small specialist outposts, would be largely self-sufficient and lack additional construction assets.  In short, they would not be 'colonies' in the sense we think of them now, valued and contributing populations of our Great Corporation.  Instead, they would simply be offworld extensions of various other ministries responsibilities.

Thus, I lend my support to the suggestion that Terrafoming be transferred to the oversight of the Ministry for Commerce.


Dr. Phineas T. Vendar,
Minister for Technology

[areyoua (OP)]

Automated Mining Operations was just one example. Another would be an industrial planet with a small population or a world used for holding excess shipyards. Both should obviously be under the Ministry of Infrastructure, but under the current proposal, they would be under the Ministry of Commerce. The point remains that categories for colonies should be strict in order to prevent these and other situations from occurring.

To Dr. Vendar I would say that Mining is very much important to Infrastructure as it will be by far the greatest user of minerals and therefore should be controlled by it. Terraforming would be a largely Commerce Initiative under my plan of seperation as terraforming complexes are large and very difficult to move while terraforming components are relatively easy to move, but the split should remain as Commerce should rule commercial ships and Infrastructure the workers.

It also is, upon some further examination, to late in the month to be proposing new legislation, so I will be waiting until the next legislative cycle to unveil my version of the amendment.

George Payne
Infrastructure Minister

[Sheb]

And what about Sorium harvesting? Should it be part of Infrastructure or Commerce?

[areyoua (OP)]

Is the Senate floor to be a quiz show? This really isn't the place to be asking these questions. However, if you really want an answer then I shall give you one. Sorium harvesting should be under commerce because it is done purely by a ship and not by an installation that would be brought to the gas giant. My reasoning lies with the fact that as it is a ministry primarily concerned with directing workers, the Ministry of Infrastructure should not be in the business of commanding ships.

George Payne
Infrastructure Minister

[Sheb]

I don't think that this distinction is a meaningful one. Ships have crews as well. And automated mines don't.

We all agree to make a distinction between "real colonies" and mining outpost or sorium harvesting. I think all production outside colonies and planets should be under a single command. I think that it should falls under Commerce, although with much input for Infrastructures.

Currently Infrastructures has too much power, has it choose which ships to build, which sectors to expand and what to produce. Letting other ministries have a degrees of control over it would be for the best.

[areyoua (OP)]

Why is it not a meaningful distinction? Commerce controls the ships, Infrastructure the workers. Crew are on ships but saying that they are the same as workers is tantamount to saying soldiers are the same as farmers and whoever controls one should control the other. Automated mines really require no oversight by anyone, so controlling them is worthless, but controlling where they are to go should be under Infrastructure as it will be the one using the greater portion of the minerals and would know which type of minerals are needed the most. The Ministry of Commerce would then get to decide whether the transport should take place and what priority it should be.

Production outside colonies and planets could be under one command, but unless they are Factories or Shipyards, no input is necessary from a minister, and these two are explicitly stated in the charter as being part of the Ministry of Infrastructure.

The concern that one ministry has more power than another is real, but there are checks and balances inherent in the system of an inter-stellar government. If Infrastructure doesn't build freighters, then no mines get move so no minerals can be exploited outside of established colonies. If Infrastructure doesn't build Military ships, then we are open to an attack that would be devastating to everybody. If Infrastructure doesn't build Survey ships, then no new minerals can be identified. The checks and balances are everywhere. No department can dominate another without considerable penalty to everyone involved.

George Payne
Infrastructure Minister