Cold War Comments Thread

[Paul M]

A few other minefield comments...the detection is at the end of the whole movement phase so the command DD even if it has Xr would not have seen the mines unless it stopped the hex before them...to detect mines you can't move faster than 1 hex per turn....well to detect them by not running into them.

Keep in mind 04.19.07 the last point "No targeting bonuses are available against mines."  So you can't double or more up on a mine attack this means a D is as good as Dxz against mines with the exception that you would need fewer Dxz to defend the ship.   Steve missed this in SFA so you can't use automatic minefield resolution...I think most people missed it as it is in an obscure place and "targeting bonus" is never used outside of there and in 04.19.02.  It means basically that minesweepers only need to have enough D (or Dx) to cover the expected number of inbound mines (a BB would need 7 D or 5 Dx).   So the designs in Crusade and likely in ISW4 are likely poor minesweepers by the 3rdR rules.

The RC are in a bit of a pickle though...they have to (or at least they need to think on it) tell the D'bringi: "Entry by your ships into Sol is an act of war."  The Co-Dominium alliance may be reforged by real-politik as allowing the D'bringi to invade/bombard Russia risks their population.  This doesn't help the sovietski's that much but still allowing an enemy warfleet into Sol by the RC would be...risky to say the least.   Not to mention once they had such a fleet in Sol...would the RC be able to trust them...it is one thing to sorta ignore an enemy you have no access to but when their fleet is a few lunar orbits out??

I am not sure exactly but the Sovietski's not forcing the minefield may have been a very bad choice on their part...if their whole fleet entered at one go while EMing and with EDMs...that would have substantially reduced the damage...still it depends on how badly damaged their ships are...but using their CLs and DDs to open a path for the BC&CA would have made sense.  That though is a hard call.

[Kurt (OP)]

A few other minefield comments...the detection is at the end of the whole movement phase so the command DD even if it has Xr would not have seen the mines unless it stopped the hex before them...to detect mines you can't move faster than 1 hex per turn....well to detect them by not running into them.

Good point.  As it has already happened, I'll just say that the command destroyer was at the final movement point when it detected the mines, but wasn't able to warn the other destroyers before they commenced the next round of movement.
 

Keep in mind 04.19.07 the last point "No targeting bonuses are available against mines."  So you can't double or more up on a mine attack this means a D is as good as Dxz against mines with the exception that you would need fewer Dxz to defend the ship.   Steve missed this in SFA so you can't use automatic minefield resolution...I think most people missed it as it is in an obscure place and "targeting bonus" is never used outside of there and in 04.19.02.  It means basically that minesweepers only need to have enough D (or Dx) to cover the expected number of inbound mines (a BB would need 7 D or 5 Dx).   So the designs in Crusade and likely in ISW4 are likely poor minesweepers by the 3rdR rules.

I'll keep that in mind when designing minesweepers.  Thanks.

The RC are in a bit of a pickle though...they have to (or at least they need to think on it) tell the D'bringi: "Entry by your ships into Sol is an act of war."  The Co-Dominium alliance may be reforged by real-politik as allowing the D'bringi to invade/bombard Russia risks their population.  This doesn't help the sovietski's that much but still allowing an enemy warfleet into Sol by the RC would be...risky to say the least.   Not to mention once they had such a fleet in Sol...would the RC be able to trust them...it is one thing to sorta ignore an enemy you have no access to but when their fleet is a few lunar orbits out??

I will be posting a write-up on a Coalition meeting to discuss the situation at some point.  The pressure will be on once the D'Bringi begin active operations within the Moskva system, and the pressure will really ramp up when they approach the warp point to Sol.   Much depends on the Soviets, and their reaction to any overtures by the Coalition.  They may not be rational.  On the other hand, no matter what the Soviets do, the Coalition is going to be very uncomfortable with the presence of alien fleets within the Solar System.   And the Coalition cannot and will not allow bombardment of Earth. 

I am not sure exactly but the Sovietski's not forcing the minefield may have been a very bad choice on their part...if their whole fleet entered at one go while EMing and with EDMs...that would have substantially reduced the damage...still it depends on how badly damaged their ships are...but using their CLs and DDs to open a path for the BC&CA would have made sense.  That though is a hard call.

Yeah, the surprise of the discovery of the minefield, coupled with their lack of experience with such things and their losses lately, all conspired to sap their will to take risks.  Plus, their admiral was hoping to tie down some of the D'Bringi fleet keeping him bottled up.  Lots going on. 

Kurt

[Paul M]

Hmmm...given the crews of those explorers have the option to mutiny and defect to the RC...and given even KGB agents aren't keen on suicide getting those ships to function as rammers may be easier said than done.  They didn't strike me as fanatics...and the execution of their CO likely didn't really help.  I mean they could just use them to explore or rent them to the RC for cash.

Corvette sized sweepers seem to be what they are planning on since they said build them on the ground.  Frigates might actually be better as they can carry a beam weapon and Xr to enable them to function as sweepers. 

Oh...the soviet's in WW2 always referred to the "Motherland" it was the ####'s that spoke of the "Fatherland."  Not sure if you mean for it to be reversed for dramatic effect.

Still I suspect that their may be further changes in the Sovietski government in the near future...the real question still outstanding is what the RC makes of all this.

added in Edit:  I just thought of a better use for those ships.  They could be used for making a light speed communications relay to give the Sovietski's a better operational communications network.  They would be 6 or more times faster than drones and would enable the Sovietski fleets to react faster than their enemies which would allow them to exploit "interior lines" better.  Though clearly the heroic new commander has made his choice...my view though is that they are horrid rams as they are easily killed...but they certainly will make the warp point an interesting place for a few turns.

[Kurt (OP)]

Hmmm...given the crews of those explorers have the option to mutiny and defect to the RC...and given even KGB agents aren't keen on suicide getting those ships to function as rammers may be easier said than done.  They didn't strike me as fanatics...and the execution of their CO likely didn't really help.  I mean they could just use them to explore or rent them to the RC for cash.

Too late for them.  After killing the "cowardly" CO, the General sent the exploration ships back under the command of his own officers.  They met a group of officers and crews that replaced the survey crews for the new mission.  The new skeleton crews were just enough people to keep the engines and critical systems going, along with the most fanatical junior officers Marshal Kosygin could find the USSR's military academies. 

Corvette sized sweepers seem to be what they are planning on since they said build them on the ground.  Frigates might actually be better as they can carry a beam weapon and Xr to enable them to function as sweepers. 

Oh...the soviet's in WW2 always referred to the "Motherland" it was the ####'s that spoke of the "Fatherland."  Not sure if you mean for it to be reversed for dramatic effect.

Yeah, I knew that but it slipped through.  Oops.  Its weird how some countries are the motherland, and others the fatherland. 

Still I suspect that their may be further changes in the Sovietski government in the near future...the real question still outstanding is what the RC makes of all this.

added in Edit:  I just thought of a better use for those ships.  They could be used for making a light speed communications relay to give the Sovietski's a better operational communications network.  They would be 6 or more times faster than drones and would enable the Sovietski fleets to react faster than their enemies which would allow them to exploit "interior lines" better.  Though clearly the heroic new commander has made his choice...my view though is that they are horrid rams as they are easily killed...but they certainly will make the warp point an interesting place for a few turns.

A relay would be great, if there were "fleets" to use the relays.  Wait, how much have I posted?  Ummm….foreshadowing?

Kurt

[Paul M]

Alternatively refitting them as AiHsQs(I)L (using the old Ls they removed) would be cheap and fast and likely more damaging...but given what you would say I'd treat them as poor crew grade for purposes of activation. 

One thing to also keep in mind is that no more construction jobs can be underway then shipyards...this is to prevent you from building ships till they have 1 HS left stopping, then starting another one and so on...then when you need a fleet finishing the last 1 HS on however many ships without ever needing to pay for the maintenance on them.  Not sure what I'd do myself in your place as you're not doing what the rule is intended to stop.

[Kurt (OP)]

Alternatively refitting them as AiHsQs(I)L (using the old Ls they removed) would be cheap and fast and likely more damaging...but given what you would say I'd treat them as poor crew grade for purposes of activation. 

One thing to also keep in mind is that no more construction jobs can be underway then shipyards...this is to prevent you from building ships till they have 1 HS left stopping, then starting another one and so on...then when you need a fleet finishing the last 1 HS on however many ships without ever needing to pay for the maintenance on them.  Not sure what I'd do myself in your place as you're not doing what the rule is intended to stop.

SA doesn't enforce the rule limiting the number of ships under construction to the number of yards, so I usually ignore it for simplicity's sake.  I am aware of it, but as I'm not "gaming' it, and the situation applies to all of the race's equally, I figure it's a wash.

I really wanted to refit the explorers to carry Pg's, as with plasma guns they could also have some armor, but the Russians haven't quite developed the Pg yet.  In any case, the Russian's fear an attack on the Solar System that could come at any time, and the explorer's would have to be pulled off of the line for to be refitted.  In spite of their asteroid forts, they are quite panicked, and won't do that, if only for peace of mind.  Once things settle down a bit, and they get a handle on things, they will be refit into attack craft of some sort. 

Kurt 

[Paul M]

I missed the Rhenish interlude...oh my I suspect the D'bringi might just be a little less keen on selling them technology at this time...or possibly more keen due to their need for MCr...but depending on how one reads the D'bringi attitude I'd expect a slightly less then prompt reply to their requests.  But with the capture of the star charts they have gained significantly...looking forward to the next turns!

Added in Edit: one thing the admiral of the trapped home fleet should consider doing is making a SS with a SYM in it.  That will allow him to replace his missiles, build more buoys when he can save up some cash, repair ships and potentially demothball a ship.  It costs some of his available resources but I think overall it is worth the +4 MCr per month maintenance.

[Gyrfalcon]

Wow, the disasters just keep rolling for the Soviets, don’t they? At this point a high level Alliance spy will leak all the gory details, just as a cherry on top.

[Paul M]

oh boy...but I was wondering about that, by which I mean how the other guys would react...leaving your allies to watch a warp point without any of your fleet there...that just rarely goes over well and especially when you say "only till we get some units to send out here."  "when will that be?"  "uhhh oh errr..."  "rrriiiiggghhhtttt..."   If the race in question are mercs it is one thing...but "allies" not so much!  It was also unnecessary as they have their fortifications....and the RC "support" that any attack on Sol would generate.   I'm not sure a bunch of unarmed ships showing up and you saying "oh they will ram any enemies that show up" actually would not make the allies actually even more uneasy about the state of the alliance they are in.

About the only thing that can make it worse now is a war with the RC...or else the Rheanish figuring out which way they need to advance...

Things are looking pretty dire I must say.  I wonder if the RC is starting to consider taking out the Sovietski's just to protect themselves.

[misanthropope]

that awkward moment when you discover a J'Rill.  On your homeworld.

[Gyrfalcon]

What are J’Rill? Symbiot-type aliens?

[misanthropope]

they're the borg, adapted for the much lower-magic starfire universe by a guy who can't science and can't fiction.  giant warbots with giant metal straws for sucking peoples' brains out.  they got no dialog, which in weberverse is a feature not a bug.

[Paul M]

they're the borg, adapted for the much lower-magic starfire universe by a guy who can't science and can't fiction.  giant warbots with giant metal straws for sucking peoples' brains out.  they got no dialog, which in weberverse is a feature not a bug.

Well the "directors" who are the real J'Rill are more like Eve pod pilots as they are integrated with their ships and still possess bodies.   Most of the rest of the "J'Rill" consist of slave brains so yeah cyborgs but well not quite Borg.  They come not from star trek but more likely from a book which had an alien brain harvesting race in them from the ö0-70s.  I'm fairly sure Alkeda Dawn predates the next abomination.  The J'Rill are basically a space nomad culture that harvests resources from worlds including brains for things like combat gear and starships.  They at the same time strip mine the planet for resources to keep their fleet running or expand it.   

David Weber had nothing to do with them or with Alkeda Dawn where they originate.   M. Costello and B. Wu are listed as authors and in the opening pages the J'Rill do a fair amount of talking.  Based on my read of a statement of David Weber he found the whole Alkeda Dawn expansion "strange."  It isn't anything like the starfire products that he had anything to do with for sure and certain.  I'm not a Weber fan...I read a lot of his books and finally gave up on them so I aint defending his bugs/features/writing style/capability. 

Added in Edit: changed "Second" to "Next" in terms of abominations...

Dear me...the rammer force is about to reveal the location (approximate) of the closed warp point to kirov from Smolensk??   Well...that is just peachy...fine...they would have been far better to leave the "cowards" on those ships...far, far, far, far better!  I do wonder if anyone ever mentioned to the guards what "ramming" actually means...   It really now hinges on what the RC make of this dusterduck that is in the process of going on.

Well done Kurt! 

[Migi]

How can the old Soviet survey ships can keep distance from the Rehorish destroyers?

[Kurt (OP)]

How can the old Soviet survey ships can keep distance from the Rehorish destroyers?

On the strategic scale, the exploration ships are actually faster than the Rehorish destroyers.  Tactically the exploration ships are much slower, but because they mount commercial engines they can move at their maximum speed at the strategic scale, unlike the destroyers.  The Rehorish could have run them down, if they wanted to risk burning out their military engines, but they really wanted to see where they went, more than they wanted to destroy them. 

Kurt