Author Topic: Cold War Comments Thread  (Read 74526 times)

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Offline Panopticon

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #120 on: July 22, 2020, 04:15:44 PM »
So the Soviets are basically thoroughly boned here right?
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #121 on: July 22, 2020, 10:37:36 PM »
So the Soviets are basically thoroughly boned here right?

Hard to see how they could pull it out, aside from convincing the Coalition to come in on their side.  Honestly, I didn't anticipate how quickly it would go downhill for the Soviets.  Of course, they are fighting multiple races, a difficult proposition at the best of times. 

Kurt
 

Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #122 on: July 23, 2020, 01:39:33 AM »
Sooo... are you doing all of this on purpose to the Soviets, or is it just a string of incredibly bad rolls of the dice or something? Because at this point, the number of things that have gone wrong for them in a row has hit the improbable level, and there's no sign its letting up any time soon.
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #123 on: July 23, 2020, 08:46:15 AM »
Sooo... are you doing all of this on purpose to the Soviets, or is it just a string of incredibly bad rolls of the dice or something? Because at this point, the number of things that have gone wrong for them in a row has hit the improbable level, and there's no sign its letting up any time soon.

I'm not really doing this on purpose, exactly.  The D'Bringi got a good string of luck in survey results, allowing them to build up their economy, and by extension their fleet.  The Rehorish were the swing factor.  They were allied to the D'Bringi first, then to the Soviets.  Once the Soviets made contact with the Rehorish, and they realized that the Soviets were at war with the D'Bringi, the Rehorish knew they had a choice to make, and an opportunity.  They told the D'Bringi that they were honoring their alliance with them, as it came first, and their dalliance with the USSR was a mere deception, but in reality the Rehorish made a hard-edged decision about which side to back based on what they thought they could get out of it. 

And then there is the Soviet response to the initial invasion, which totally underestimated the threat and ended up piecemealing out their fleet in packets to get destroyed bit by bit.  That was my underestimation of the threat as well, in spite of my superior knowledge.  In the back of my head I considered the sides to be fairly equal, and thought that this war would see-saw a bit before being decided one way or another.  That was clearly wrong, and when I looked at the situation more clearly, I immediately saw why.  The Russians are at war with essentially three races, two of which have fleets every bit as bit as theirs was at the start of the war.  They were out-numbered from the first, caught by surprise, and lost a significant portion of their fleet in the first moments of the war when it was ambushed in Rehorish territory. 

In other words, I didn't set out to destroy the soviets, but it sure worked out that way.  Now, having said that, given the reduced pop increase rates I've set for this game, the bulk of their income is still centered in the Solar System, as are their shipyards and their best defenses.  Its not over yet. 

By the way, that's something I've noticed about the Cold War universe, perhaps because of the pop increase and income restrictions I've set.  The bulk of all of the race's income is located in their home system, with one exception, and the home systems are the best defended systems in the universe.  Penetrating those defenses will be no small matter. 

Kurt
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #124 on: July 23, 2020, 12:49:11 PM »
Fighting 2 aliens and having a competition with the RC basically left the sovietskis in a bad place but what pushed them onto the slippery section was the Red Banner Fleet loss...everything else leads back to that.  At the moment they are in free fall...but nothing that looks forced to me.

I see the results as more or less due to the standard dA/dt = B and dB/dt = A equations of naval gun combat really.  The reason that very few naval battles were fought unless one side figured they had a decided advantage...and why gun combat in naval terms is so decisive.  Also Kurt I figure you are still used to the standard building rates where you can pump stuff out whilly nilly by the tech level you have.  Also the lack of things like an ICN and system patrols really makes itself felt regardless of the overall cost they entail. 

For a while the home world is the main income but by now it in our game it is the single largest income source but it is usually less than 10% of the total income for the more potent races.  It is for a long while though the main income source.   I don't think any race doesn't have the largest construction capacity there either...but the more potent races usually also have a lot of distributed capacity.   The RM has 3 large concentrations and ten smaller plus about 10 mobile groups.

Great updates...still wondering what the RC is up to...
 

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #125 on: July 23, 2020, 03:25:38 PM »
Based on the latest updates it seems that the Soviet colonies might not be Soviet for much longer, either joining the Bjering or seceding entirely.
 

Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #126 on: July 24, 2020, 04:32:49 AM »
What does everybody think it makes sense for the Coalition to do about this situation given their knowledge? We the readers know that the USSR's enemies are in contact with each other, so they will know about the D'Bringi/Coalition treaty.  They will likely keep to the agreement and not attack the Coalition.  Does the Coalition side with the USSR because Humans first? Sit back and hope nobody nukes Earth? Attack the USSR in the hopes that they can kill 2 birds with one stone?
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #127 on: July 24, 2020, 10:03:50 AM »
I don't see how they have any choice but to take the sovietski's out of the picture...so long as they were strong and it looked like the war would end in their favour then the situation was tenable.  They can't allow aliens into Sol, they can't allow them to invade Earth...so this means that the aliens will either have to reach a peace agreement with the Sovietski's that both sides can live with or else the RC will be drawn into the war.  If they strike at the sovietski's they can cripple or capture their shipyards, and then their fleet can destroy the soviet bases (I calculated 86 pts of damage/turn for 6 BCs each armed with 5 Rc even against doubled up point defence).  After which they can invade...taking out the sovietski's gives them freedom to use diplomacy.

If they think the "new" alliance could work then that would be an option...but a young stalin makes that unlikely...plus the current CEO is anti-sovietski.   It isn't without cost but...I admit I don't see to many alternatives that aren't worse down the road for the RC.

Maybe Kurt has a cunning plan though...  I'd say the time to strike is now...of course if the soviet governors basically send a message asking to join that would also change things...but again taking out the sovietski's on earth is still on the table.

Kurt one thing...you can't ram a ship that just transited...according to the rules the ship has to start the turn on the sensors of the ramming ship so to speak.  Not can a ship leap through the warp point and ram another.  I recall reading about how the EXs planned to ram transit addled ships...only with house rules!
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #128 on: July 24, 2020, 11:43:04 AM »
I don't see how they have any choice but to take the sovietski's out of the picture...so long as they were strong and it looked like the war would end in their favour then the situation was tenable.  They can't allow aliens into Sol, they can't allow them to invade Earth...so this means that the aliens will either have to reach a peace agreement with the Sovietski's that both sides can live with or else the RC will be drawn into the war.  If they strike at the sovietski's they can cripple or capture their shipyards, and then their fleet can destroy the soviet bases (I calculated 86 pts of damage/turn for 6 BCs each armed with 5 Rc even against doubled up point defence).  After which they can invade...taking out the sovietski's gives them freedom to use diplomacy.

If they think the "new" alliance could work then that would be an option...but a young stalin makes that unlikely...plus the current CEO is anti-sovietski.   It isn't without cost but...I admit I don't see to many alternatives that aren't worse down the road for the RC.

Maybe Kurt has a cunning plan though...  I'd say the time to strike is now...of course if the soviet governors basically send a message asking to join that would also change things...but again taking out the sovietski's on earth is still on the table.

Kurt one thing...you can't ram a ship that just transited...according to the rules the ship has to start the turn on the sensors of the ramming ship so to speak.  Not can a ship leap through the warp point and ram another.  I recall reading about how the EXs planned to ram transit addled ships...only with house rules!

Yeah, I know.  A ship has to declare its intent to ram at the start of movement, if I remember correctly, and during the first turn that would be before the enemy starts transiting in.  Therefore they can only ram on the second turn.  I knew I wrote it in a way that implied that they were trying to ram during the first turn, but what I meant was that they would be ramming as soon as possible after transit, and to get the crews to think they would be effective, they've been told that their targets will be recovering from transit.  Technically correct, as in my mind it takes some time to recover, even if the negative effects only last through the turn of transit.  It's just not as easy as they've been told. 

Kurt
 

Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #129 on: July 24, 2020, 02:42:00 PM »
So has it crossed the Soviets minds to be honest with the Alliance about what’s coming and get them to join the war? Simple realpolitik says the Alliance can’t afford to have two alien species invading the solar system or even enforcing a blockade on the jump point - even if it a ‘Soviet only’ blockade, human ships all look alike and that would lead to Alliance civilians being destroyed and the Alliance being blockaded as well.
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #130 on: July 24, 2020, 03:10:35 PM »
Given they have Ic and not I...it will be even harder...the other thing will be the first damage point will take out the rammers drive field so they sorta end up being more like primitive anti-drive missiles.  Up to you how you deal with it but I'd at the least half the damage the rammers do...personally that is my reason why I don't think small craft should be able to ram starships.  The starships drive field would burn out theirs before they could make contact.  It's kinda one of those rules that I really think needed more thought...I can see kamikazi's working where they just close and detonate bombs in their cargo bay or on their fXo racks but not the smallcraft themselves.  Just me but I remember those battles Steve had with the bugs and I always thought that was just silly.  Still 12 EX's will strip a CA of its engines regardless of if you figure they should do more damage or not...and given engine rooms can fail they may end up with 3 or more CAs immobilized.

I am very curious what the RC has planned...they have enough evidence to suggest the sovietski's have suffered badly...and I can't see any good that comes from letting the situation develop.  But yeah a nuclear attack would be bad.  But as exciting they may find sharing the earth with the Sovietski's I can't imagine sharing it with a d'bringi occupation force would make them turn handsprings in joy.
 

Offline Starslayer_D

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #131 on: July 27, 2020, 02:48:46 AM »
I found that with longer build times it makes a lot of sense to build up local build/refit capacity instead of rushing mobile SY feelt hither and tither. Allthough in hindsight might have build less SY and more MS for the thebans. They now have a lot of SY scattered around and still not yet enough to refit everything at once. ... not that they could afford that anyway.
 

Offline Black

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #132 on: July 27, 2020, 03:04:45 AM »
Could the Coalition claim that they conquered Soviets in Sol to prevent D'bringi from entering the Sol? It could be plausible as the Soviets lost lots of ships and colonies. Of course Soviets would have to be honest with Coalition to make this work and that is most likely not something they would like to do.
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #133 on: July 27, 2020, 08:51:52 AM »
Could the Coalition claim that they conquered Soviets in Sol to prevent D'bringi from entering the Sol? It could be plausible as the Soviets lost lots of ships and colonies. Of course Soviets would have to be honest with Coalition to make this work and that is most likely not something they would like to do.

Maybe?  The success of a plan like that would depend on a couple of things.  First, the aliens would have to be focused only on the conquest of the Soviets, not humanity as a whole.  The Coalition is growing increasingly worried that once the aliens get into the Solar system they would then be able to dictate terms to the Coalition as well.  Secondly, the soviets, and the people of the Coalition states, would have to be willing to write off the Soviet colonists scattered across their colonial territories.  I would imagine that there would be significant and increasing internal pressure on both governments to liberate the people "Groaning under the yoke of the alien oppressors". 

Kurt
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #134 on: July 27, 2020, 01:40:27 PM »
The Shanirian's have a large number of MSx's as their installations were in part intended to function as repair facilities.   But yeah it sure helps with refits or pre-fab construction.

Oh boy...given what happened I'd drop the crew grade of those sovietski ships one level...that has to have impacted them and not in a good way.

I'm rather surprised the governors didn't make at least an attempt at contacting the RC given the alternatives are being overrun by aliens or "helped" by another set of aliens.  Though they may think they can stand on their own...strictly speaking they are just following orders...  I'm vastly curious what the RC may be thinking...the whole situation has to be giving both the military and the politicians collective fits.

Removed in the Edit: I spotted what the 19 ships were...joy for the russians the T'Pau still have not been seen...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 01:46:38 PM by Paul M »