Low tech level efficiency

[Silverkeeper (OP)]

Minimum Technologies on conventional start

I´m trying to figure out what to research first on conventional start.
Out of the offensive capabilities even at low tech levels missiles seem like the wisest choice, they however
require the most research.
I was also considering plasma early on because it requires minimal research, does a lot of damage and has the longest range.

Starting out I need at least these.

Active Grav Sensor 1000rp
Pressurised water reactor 600rp
Maximum Engine Power Modifier x 1,25 500rp
Maximum Engine Power Modifier x 1,5  1000rp
Nuclear Thermal Engine Technology 1000rp

Conventional Composite Armor 250rp
Conventional Advanced Composite Armor 375rp
Duranium Armor 500rp

After this I can choose what to develop.
---------------------------------------------------------
Lasers

10cm Laser focal size 1000rp
Infrared laser 500rp

This gives us a crummy 10cm C1 infrared laser.Problem with this tech level is that
we´re too slow to catch anything.

10cm C1 infrared laser
Damage Output 3    Rate of Fire 15 seconds     Range Modifier 10 000
Max Range 30 000 km     Laser Size 3 HS  (150 tons)     Laser HTK 1
Power Requirement 3    Recharge Rate 1
Cost 1.7    Crew 9
Development Cost 125 RP
----------------------------------------------------------
Railgun
Better damage, but would likely be blown to pieces before action due the extremely small range

10cm Railgun 1000rp
Railgun Launch velocity 10000km/s 1000rp

10cm Railgun V10/C1
Damage Per Shot (4) 1     Rate of Fire 15 seconds     Range Modifier 10 000
Max Range 10 000 km     Railgun Size 3 HS  (150 tons)    Railgun HTK 1
Power Requirement 3    Recharge Rate 1
Cost 1.7    Crew 9
Development Cost 150 RP
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Plasma Carronade
15cm Carronade 500rp

15 cm C1 Plasma Carronade
Damage Output 6     Rate of Fire 30 seconds
Max Range 60 000 km     Carronade Size 4 HS  (200 tons)    Carronade HTK 2
Power Requirement 6    Recharge Rate 1
Cost 2.4    Crew 8
Development Cost 150 RP
-------------------------------------------------------
Mesons
Meson Focusing Technology 1 1000rp
10cm Meson Focal Size 1000rp
Meson Armor Retardation 50% 500rp

R15/C1 Meson Cannon
Max Range 15 000 km      Rate of Fire 15 seconds     Focus Modifier 10 000
Meson Cannon Size 3 HS  (150 tons)    Meson Cannon HTK 1
Power Requirement 3    Recharge Rate 1    Armour Retardation 0.5
Cost 1.7    Crew 15
Development Cost 300 RP

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Gauss Cannon
Gauss Cannon Launch Velocity 10000 500rp
Gauss Cannon Rate of Fire 2 1500rp

Gauss Cannon R100-100
Damage Output 1      Rate of Fire 2 / 5s     Range Modifier 10 000
Max Range 10 000 km     Size 6 HS  (300 tons)    HTK 2
Cost 24    Crew 12
Development Cost 240 RP
---------------------------------------------------------
Missiles

Magazine Feed System Effiency 75% 1000rp
Magazine neutralization 70% 500rp

So I came up with this, would it even be close to working?

Star class Frigate      5 995 tons       102 Crew       470.4 BP       TCS 120    TH 241    EM 0
2006 km/s      Armour 3-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 34      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 168
Maint Life 2.10 Years     MSP 110    AFR 128%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 33    5YR 500    Max Repair 60.155 MSP
Magazine 160   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP120.31 (2)    Power 240.6    Fuel Use 125.91%    Signature 120.31    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 650 000 Litres    Range 15.5 billion km (89 days at full power)

15 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 2 006 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 10 000 km    ROF 15       
Beam Fire Control R60-TS2000 (1)     Max Range: 60 000 km   TS: 2 000 km/s     42 33 25 17 8 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor R6 (2)     Total Power Output 12.2    Exp 5%

Size 5 Box Launcher (32)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
Missile Fire Control FC20-R100 (1)     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100
Meteor Anti-Ship Missile (30)    Speed: 7 400 km/s    End: 46.3m     Range: 20.5m km    WH: 4    Size: 5.00    TH: 27/16/8

Active Search Sensor AS20-R100 (1)     GPS 1200     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Suggestions?

[xenoscepter]

Pretty damn good, I'd say!

Might want to consider more Engineering Spaces, two seems kinda low for a 6,000 Ton ship. 3 is kinda the barest minimum, but 4 Engineering Spaces and one Small would be plenty fine. The armor is rather light, but with a salvo like that... yeesh, who cares about armor. I'd consider adding some Maintenance Storage Bays, if your engine gets blasted you can't fix it. Honestly, I'd up the tonnage to 7,500, adjust the engines to account for the extra mass to retain your speed (which is good, btw... range too.) and add 3 Engineering Spaces, an EM and TH Passive Sensor, and some Maintenance Storage Bays.

However, it's your ship, not mine and it works damn good as is. The Plasma Carronades as a weapon are crap, but they add character. I like 'em, and honestly, for a missile ship at this tech the 15cm ones make a fine secondary armament. In beam combat you'll be able to outrun anything you can't outshoot and outshoot anything you can't outrun. Unless they have particle Beams... or lasers, then you're screwed. Definitely would support this ship with some Beam Corvettes, a mix of 10cm Laser and 10cm Railgun ones for PD and anti-kiters, make 'em fast.

[Pedroig]

I generally use a "rule of thumb" of 1 Engineering Space per 20 HS (1000 tons).

Also, you probably want to have your Active Search Radar to be a minimum of 125% more than your Fire Control.

Every ship should have a Passive Thermal Sensor (EM is more situational).

Overall though, for an in-system ship, which is going to spend most it's time "in port" it will work.

[Alsadius]

Overall, pretty good. But I've got a few quibbles:

- Do you have a full complement of missiles loaded? I think you may be two short.

- Your ship only need 4 power worth of reactors, not 12. The "Power 6-2" means 6 total to recharge, max 2 per 5-second tick. The power plant output is an amount per 5-second tick.

- The maintenance life is much too long for the deployment time. I'd use the tonnage saved from cutting a reactor to add to your deployment time.

- As Xeno said, add a small passive sensor or two.

[Father Tim]

If you start playing Aurora for efficiency, you're probably going to get bored and quit a whole lot sooner.  There IS a right answer for combat, but it's not too far from 'use SpaceMaster to delete enemies.'

Likewise, there are 'right' weapons and 'wrong' weapons.  Some weapon systems are literally a waste of research points if all you care about is killing enemy ships as "efficiently" as possible.

So use missiles or lasers or whatever because you want to use missiles or lasers or whatever, not because they give the biggest bang per tech point.  Design ships that are X-wings and TIE fighters because you want X-wings and TIE fighters, not ships that are the perfect balance of engines, fuel, and spinal weaponry.

[Demonius]

You just can't fix the old powergamer min/max vs. RP Problem.

[Silverkeeper (OP)]

Here is the revised version.

Star class Frigate      5 995 tons       100 Crew       449.1 BP       TCS 120    TH 241    EM 0
2006 km/s      Armour 3-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 34      Sensors 0/6/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 173
Maint Life 1.78 Years     MSP 93    AFR 144%    IFR 2.0%    1YR 36    5YR 544    Max Repair 60.155 MSP
Magazine 165   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP120.31 (2)    Power 240.6    Fuel Use 125.91%    Signature 120.31    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 660 000 Litres    Range 15.7 billion km (90 days at full power)

15 cm C1 Plasma Carronade (2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 2 006 km/s     Power 6-1     RM 10 000 km    ROF 30       
Beam Fire Control R80-TS2000 (1)     Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 2 000 km/s     44 38 31 25 19 12 6 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor R4 (1)     Total Power Output 4    Exp 5%

Size 5 Box Launcher (33)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
Missile Fire Control FC20-R100 (1)     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100
Meteor Anti-Ship Missile (33)    Speed: 7 400 km/s    End: 46.7m     Range: 20.7m km    WH: 4    Size: 5.000    TH: 27/16/8

Active Search Sensor AS20-R100 (1)     GPS 1200     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100
EM Sensor EM1.2-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Thank you for comments.

[thashepherd]

Here is the revised version.

Star class Frigate      5 995 tons       100 Crew       449.1 BP       TCS 120    TH 241    EM 0
2006 km/s      Armour 3-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 34      Sensors 0/6/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 173
Maint Life 1.78 Years     MSP 93    AFR 144%    IFR 2.0%    1YR 36    5YR 544    Max Repair 60.155 MSP
Magazine 165   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP120.31 (2)    Power 240.6    Fuel Use 125.91%    Signature 120.31    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 660 000 Litres    Range 15.7 billion km (90 days at full power)

15 cm C1 Plasma Carronade (2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 2 006 km/s     Power 6-1     RM 10 000 km    ROF 30       
Beam Fire Control R80-TS2000 (1)     Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 2 000 km/s     44 38 31 25 19 12 6 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor R4 (1)     Total Power Output 4    Exp 5%

Size 5 Box Launcher (33)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
Missile Fire Control FC20-R100 (1)     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100
Meteor Anti-Ship Missile (33)    Speed: 7 400 km/s    End: 46.7m     Range: 20.7m km    WH: 4    Size: 5.000    TH: 27/16/8

Active Search Sensor AS20-R100 (1)     GPS 1200     Range 20.3m km    Resolution 100
EM Sensor EM1.2-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Thank you for comments.

Some unstructured thoughts:

• I generally like to have an intended deployment time of 1.5x to 2x my ship's endurance - so perhaps 6 months for the Star class. You're never going to drive a Star-class frigate 8 billion km out and another 8 back; what you'll REALLY be doing is sending it somewhere and having it wait in orbit until the crew's sick of it. So you really want a longer deployment time than your ship's endurance would suggest.
• 16 billion km range is very low. I aim for ~45 billion km for my battle fleet, although this may not be achievable at your tech level without sacrifice. The Star-class is quite fast for NPE engines.
• Your maintenance life actually looks spot-on to me. While 1.78 years SEEMS long, the important bit here is that your MSP storage is ~1.5x your Max Repair. That's just barely enough and I wouldn't sacrifice further. For this ship, a reasonable loadout would be one Maintenance Storage Bay and one to two Engineering Spaces.
• Your plasma carronades are 'overpowered' - you have twice as much reactor as you need. Recommend shifting to a single R4 reactor, or perhaps two R1.5 reactors for redundancy. Fire control looks excellent, although you can save weight by dropping the range a bit.
• Your missiles and their fire control are well-matched. I find that early/mid-game ASMs work well at 25 million km, even against the spoiler bois. If you care to optimize further, I'd suggest increasing to size 6 missiles and using the additional space to improve missile speed. Aim to improve your hit percentage against targets travelling at around 5000 km/s.
• As it looks like you've done, including size-1 EM and Thermal sensors are always a good idea.

Above notwithstanding, this is a well-designed ship and tweaking further is just going to get you a few percent around the edges. I do think that the operational concept of a ship carrying both ASMs and Plasma Carronades is a bit funny, especially this early in the game. You really can't afford to carry short-range energy weapons and long-range missiles on the same hull, especially since in this case your plasma carronades aren't adding any anti-missile defense.

What I would do from a fleet structure perspective is recast the Star class as an anti-ship missile frigate, and design a second class armed with Gauss turrets to form an anti-missile umbrella (the two should be speed-matched and operate together). Use the extra space to improve speed and range.

Researching Gauss tech is particularly useful since it also improves your CIWS installations. I would avoid plasma carronades until later in the game. They're not enough to win close-range engagements against the Spoiler Bois, and it will be your ASMs that are decisive in engagements against NPRs close to your tech level. Gauss turrets, on the other hand, are surprisingly effective against missile salvos even at lower tech levels (see attachment).

Edit: in case you're curious about the build of the ships in the picture, they're more early-midgame vessels. Here's the spec:

Code: [Select]

Bloodhawk class Destroyer Escort      6,231 tons       153 Crew       904 BP       TCS 125    TH 625    EM 0
5015 km/s      Armour 4-30       Shields 0-0       HTK 40      Sensors 6/8/0/0      DCR 4      PPV 31.96
Maint Life 3.99 Years     MSP 762    AFR 78%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 77    5YR 1,148    Max Repair 156.25 MSP
Fregattankapitan    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Military Ion Drive (2)    Power 625.0    Fuel Use 31.62%    Signature 312.5    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 45.7 billion km (105 days at full power)

Twin Mk. 22 Gauss Cannon Turret Mod 1 (2x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
3rd Gen Gauss BFC (2)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

3rd Gen Missile Search Radar (1)     GPS 64     Range 11.1m km    MCR 1.2m km    Resolution 1
FLIR-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
EM-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22.4m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Twin Mk. 22 Gauss Cannon Turret Mod 1 (obsolete due to launch velocity, rate of fire, and turret tracking speed improvements)
Cost 95.6   Size 799 tons   Crew 22   HTK 6
Base Change to hit 100%
Materials Required: Duranium  16.2    Neutronium  7.4    Vendarite  72   

Military Ion Drive (also obsolete due to fuel efficiency improvements)
Engine Power 312.5    Fuel Use Per Hour 98.8 litres    Fuel per EPH 0.32
Thermal Signature 312.5    Explosion Chance 10%
Military Engine
Cost 156.25   Size 1,250 tons   Crew 25   HTK 5
Base Change to hit 100%
Materials Required: Gallicite  156.25   


[Michael Sandy]

Interesting exercise.  Doing the math on its missiles, you would expect to hit about 40% against itself, (ignoring crew grade and officer bonuses), so about 12-13 hits for a full volley, which would blast off a lot of the armor, but not kill an equal.

In order to spend an extended time at near conventional tech, you would need to reduce the research rate to maybe 10%.  Because otherwise the amount of resources required to build a fleet would have you past that near conventional tech in about a year at most.

A problem with an extended low tech campaign is by comparison with the minimum tier weapons and drives, a lot of the technology you actually need to exploit space is rather expensive.  Cryo, salvage ships, troop transports, all require research that is more expensive than those basic weapon techs.

In VB6, you didn't see people researching Jump Point Theory before the engine tech that had comparable cost, Nuclear Pulse.

You could have a lot of fun with scenario designs for low tech ships, but it would be difficult to keep that feel for a campaign.