Group Jumping question

[serger (OP)]

It might be the fact your construction ship does not have an engine.

This modification have the same result:

Code: [Select]

Unity IIb class Construction Ship    52 500 tons     115 Crew     1448 BP      TCS 1050  TH 25  EM 0
23 km/s     Armour 1-124     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 17    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 72 months    Spare Berths 0   
Jump Gate Construction Ship: 150 days

DC Mini Economic NTE (1)    Power 25    Fuel Use 0.54%    Signature 25    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 3.1 billion km   (1543 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


[MarcAFK]

As 83athom already mentioned, you need to uncouple the station from the tug when it reached the jump point, jump the station alone, then jump the tug and recouple the station to continue taking it to wherever. I don't remember it being such a hassle, but I rarely use tugs.
Btw your updated design is 100 tons too heavy for the tug. I reccomend shoving some more fuel onto the tug to make it an even 52,500 tons.

[serger (OP)]

MarcAFK, I'm still don't understand how are you suggesting my station to jump without jump drive...

As for tug size - thanx. I was absolutely sure, that Atlas have a mass of 52,500 tons precisely, but smth with my brain went wrong again. 
Modified tug with additional fuel tanks successfully towed this station through the jump point just now.

So, finally:
If you want to tow your stations through the jump points without gates and without stops, than you have to remember, that:
1. Jump capable tug must have a mass greater or equal to station, that she tow, not only a jump drive with this mass capability.
2. Station in question must have an engine to follow the tug through the jump point without jump gate, although you have no need to order this TG to release tractored ship (= to use their own engine for every ship in question) before every jump.

It looks a bit paradoxical, but it works and release you from additional boring micromanagement with jump tramps.

[formicae]

If you want to tow your stations through the jump points without gates and without stops, than you have to remember, that:
1. Jump capable tug must have a mass greater or equal to station, that she tow, not only a jump drive with this mass capability.
2. Station in question must have an engine to follow the tug through the jump point without jump gate, although you have no need to order this TG to release tractored ship (= to use their own engine for every ship in question) before every jump.

I was having some trouble with this a while back (but still at 7.1), and my conclusion was that the use of jump tugs is more hassle (and possibly bugs) than it's worth.

It's been a while, but this is what I remember:

• If you use a military jump drive instead of a commercial one, then it works correctly, but the tug is very expensive. If it's a bug that a commercial jump drive doesn't work, then the bug is that checking whether a commercial jump drive can jump a ship is checking for the presence of a commercial engine, not checking for the absence of a military engine.
• If you stick an engine on the station, then a commercial jump drive will work, but the station uses fuel. The fuel it uses is based on the distance it travels, not on the amount of time the engine was running: for example, if you have a ship that has a range of 1 billion km, a fuel capacity of 50,000, and a time at full power of 30 days, and you tug it 1 billion km in one day, then it will exhaust its fuel in that one day, since it travelled its full range of 1 billion km. As with the above, I don't know whether this is a bug or intentional.
• Of course, the other standard rules of a jump tender, which you have in (1), still apply: it has to be at least as large as the ship it's helping and have a sufficiently-large jump drive.

If you want to confirm these in some SM sandbox, then I'll advise you not to modify classes of ships which already exist. My first attempt to add an engine to a station was by unlocking the design and adding an engine to it, and it worked without fuel, but only for those ships which already existed. Any new stations I made with the new design promptly complained about a lack of fuel and refused to be tugged anywhere.

[seronis]

What is even the point in checking ship types for jumping?  Sorry but once a hole is punched in space that hole is a generic spatial distortion while it lasts and its not gonna care about whether a ship is military or commercial passing through.  This is really a pointless limitation that adds nothing to gameplay, reason or fun.   And actively detracts from all 3.

[sublight]

Engine type, not ship type. Military ships powered by commercial engines can use commercial jump drives. However I have only used tugs with jump gates so there could be a bug where the lack of a commercial engine on an engineless ship is preventing commercial jump drive tug operation. Redundant: see formicae's post

As for why military engines can not be used with commercial:

a) Game balance.

B) [technobabel] ... however the high power of military engines can easily destabilize the loosely spun gate rifts generated by bulk civilian tech and can only transit gates generated with tight milspech precision or supported by gate structures... [/technobabel]

[seronis]

Its not game balancing though. I would be interested in any explanation that could detail why its a balance and not just a random hindrance.

[Paul M]

It is game balancing when you consider civilian jump drives have a capacity 10x that of a miltary one.  For the NCNs Sirocco class CA the research for the jump drive alone is nearly a year as it has to be capable of 18,000 tonnes (some 3000+ RP).  If I could use a civillian jump engine that would be trivial as a 20,000 tonne civillian jump engine is cheap to research.  I'd assume it is also much smaller than the equivelent miltary one as well.

Since civillian ships are 10x larger (basically because Steve wants this to be so)...then you have to have differentiation between civillian and miltary drives.  A milary jump drive can transit any ship through a jump point regardless of engine type but limited in size.  Civillian jump drives only work on civillian ships for whatever reason...but in game terms purely for balance.

[Sheb]

MarcAFK, I'm still don't understand how are you suggesting my station to jump without jump drive...

When a jump ship is sitting on a jump point, it works as a jump gate, letting vessel (that aren't too big) jump through the JP.

[serger (OP)]

When a jump ship is sitting on a jump point, it works as a jump gate, letting vessel (that aren't too big) jump through the JP.

Oh my...
I miss this feature completely from the beginning!
Thank you!