Spy Ships and Diplomacy Ships

[Wieseltrupp (OP)]

Good morning,

i struggly to grasp the concept of Diplomacy and intelligence to a degree that enables me to properly create designs and Fleet movements to utilize these new features

Diplomacy: i thought creating a vessel with a Diplomacy module and placing it somewhere in a System where the Alien has a Population would enable me to establish communication with the Race, learning his Language(if he wants to communicate too) and improve relations between our Races. When i sent Diplomacy ships to one of those systems its either to late (the dont want to communicate anymore) or those ships just get blown appart when they come to close to a Alien population.

Intelligence: When i create Spy Ships to spy on Populations they usualy just get cought. Either Hostile Aliens outright shoot the ship or Neutral ones nag me to leave their system, following is one of those Spy Ship designs

Code: [Select]

Queensland class Intelligence Ship      7 996 tons       220 Crew       1 602.4 BP       TCS 24    TH 161    EM 0
4202 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 1-35       Shields 0-0       HTK 43      Sensors 11/16/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.38 Years     MSP 908    AFR 71%    IFR 1.0%    1YR 219    5YR 3 291    Max Repair 512 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J8000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 8000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

M60P70T25 Magneto-plasma Drive  EP672.00 (1)    Power 672    Fuel Use 8.37%    Signature 161.28    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 67.2 billion km (185 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH1-11 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
ELINT Module (2)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15.00% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Because of the cloak i placed this ship 20m KM infront of a population but it got easily detected, hinting that Aliens cover most resolutions with their scanners and therefor even detect these smaller vessels.

Did you already succesfully executed Diplomacy or Intelligence missions? How did you do it and what did you get out of it?

[Froggiest1982]

Good morning,

i struggly to grasp the concept of Diplomacy and intelligence to a degree that enables me to properly create designs and Fleet movements to utilize these new features

Diplomacy: i thought creating a vessel with a Diplomacy module and placing it somewhere in a System where the Alien has a Population would enable me to establish communication with the Race, learning his Language(if he wants to communicate too) and improve relations between our Races. When i sent Diplomacy ships to one of those systems its either to late (the dont want to communicate anymore) or those ships just get blown appart when they come to close to a Alien population.

Intelligence: When i create Spy Ships to spy on Populations they usualy just get cought. Either Hostile Aliens outright shoot the ship or Neutral ones nag me to leave their system, following is one of those Spy Ship designs

Code: [Select]

Queensland class Intelligence Ship      7 996 tons       220 Crew       1 602.4 BP       TCS 24    TH 161    EM 0
4202 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 1-35       Shields 0-0       HTK 43      Sensors 11/16/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.38 Years     MSP 908    AFR 71%    IFR 1.0%    1YR 219    5YR 3 291    Max Repair 512 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J8000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 8000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

M60P70T25 Magneto-plasma Drive  EP672.00 (1)    Power 672    Fuel Use 8.37%    Signature 161.28    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 67.2 billion km (185 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH1-11 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
ELINT Module (2)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 15.00% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Because of the cloak i placed this ship 20m KM infront of a population but it got easily detected, hinting that Aliens cover most resolutions with their scanners and therefor even detect these smaller vessels.

Did you already succesfully executed Diplomacy or Intelligence missions? How did you do it and what did you get out of it?

Ehehehh, are you trying to run a diplomacy mission or a spy mission? Because there is a big difference. I know you have tried earlier but until there is diplomacy effectively in place you better stay away.

If you use a normal diplomacy module your ship will be identified as commercial (maybe they also were military vessels and this is why you failing?) and may be able to start communicating with the enemy in the attempt of establishing a better relationship with such race. However, when you install an ELINT module you are pretty much sending an active military contact in the attempt of stealing information. That could be considered by many dodgy or an act of war, so a missile is the least you can expect. Honestly, I believe you would have done the same. Imagine you sitting in your office minding your own business on Earth. Suddenly your tactical map shows a big red contact 20 million km from orbit. I think I know your reaction but please feel free to choose between:

a) Oh s**t oh s**i oh s**t, fire fire fire everything you got at this moth******er!
b)Oh so cool this new Aurora, aliens coming by to drop off free supplies and flowers. I love it!

[Thrake]

What I personnaly did to setup first contact was to send a ship in a system neighbouring an alien population with the order to open transponders to everyone. Eventually an alien ship will drop by and stay at the location of the diplomatic ship or shoot it. I do have the same issue afterwards of aliens telling me to go away once communications have been set up though.

If you use a normal diplomacy module your ship will be identified as commercial (maybe they also were military vessels and this is why you failing?) and may be able to start communicating with the enemy in the attempt of establishing a better relationship with such race.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to have a non military diplomatic ship since you can only conduct diplomacy if you are aware of alien's presence and this needs sensors...?

[Ehndras]

size 1 sensors can be mounted on commercial vessels

[Froggiest1982]

If you use a normal diplomacy module your ship will be identified as commercial (maybe they also were military vessels and this is why you failing?) and may be able to start communicating with the enemy in the attempt of establishing a better relationship with such race.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to have a non military diplomatic ship since you can only conduct diplomacy if you are aware of alien's presence and this needs sensors...?

You can use passive sensors.

or

size 1 sensors can be mounted on commercial vessels

[Thrake]

If you use a normal diplomacy module your ship will be identified as commercial (maybe they also were military vessels and this is why you failing?) and may be able to start communicating with the enemy in the attempt of establishing a better relationship with such race.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to have a non military diplomatic ship since you can only conduct diplomacy if you are aware of alien's presence and this needs sensors...?

You can use passive sensors.

Auk Mk2 class Diplomatic Ship      4,870 tons       117 Crew       662.6 BP       TCS 97    TH 200    EM 0
2053 km/s      Armour 1-25       Shields 0-0       HTK 29      Sensors 40/40/0/0      DCR 4      PPV 0
Maint Life 8.46 Years     MSP 2,340    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 58    5YR 874    Max Repair 300 MSP
Capitaine de vaisseau    Control Rating 1   BRG   DIP   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP200.00 80% 0.6 25 M (1)    Power 200    Fuel Use 21.72%    Signature 200    Explosion 8%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 85.1 billion km (479 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH5-40 (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  50m km
EM Sensor EM5-40 (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  50m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Will try size 1, it has the issue of the inability to detect efficiently though it would not be an issue if the AI lets me park my ship on their planets. I'll see how welcome I am with a commercial design.

[Wieseltrupp (OP)]

My Diplomacy Designs where, in fact, Civilian ones. With the Civilian sensors i had no luck with communication attempts so i moved closer to the population, that when they got blown up.

I agree that Spy missions are at least dodgy but i dont do that outright, only when the diplomatic angle of attack failed. my most succesfull design was a spy ship without cloak but with a ton of shields, sadly you cant speed up the intelligence gathering. i gathered a couple of points, ran away in a hail of missiles and blew those aliens appart with my battle fleet afterwards.

Blowing up Aliens is what i do in Aurora but i am looking forward to a version where i can negociate peace and ally treaties.

i just wondered if you guys already did succesfull Diplomacy and Spy missions and how that turned out.

[Thrake]

I tuged an innocent diplomatic station to an alien population, as per the recommandations that was a commercial design this time with size 1 passive sensors and I'm threatened to leave or die in the wrecks of my diplomatic station (they said they had a neutral opinion of my pops previously), even after the (commercial) tug went back home.

[Exultant]

NPRs seem to place great value on keeping their home system clear of other races (and to be honest, makes sense)

You're likely to have a better effect by finding a tiny colony outside of their home system and parking there.  Or at least, it won't get killed as quickly

[Thrake]

NPRs seem to place great value on keeping their home system clear of other races (and to be honest, makes sense)

You're likely to have a better effect by finding a tiny colony outside of their home system and parking there.  Or at least, it won't get killed as quickly

You're right that it was likely their home system.

Does it make sense? Everyone has ambassies in everyone's capital, baring a handful exceptions I'd say. I understand shooting down before establishing communications but past first contact I can't do anything because I'm only aware of the capital and I am asked to get out anytime I'm in a system under AI influence. I find it pretty odd that there is no other way to conduct even basic diplomacy as we'll sit on 0 relationship in an era past mass communications. I've explored a hundred systems but still can't seem to communicate with aliens 2 systems away (at the neighbouring system now I colonized a bit) that discovered me even before I went out of Sol.

Anyway, I guess it's WAI and now I understand why, thanks.

[Father Tim]

Aliens also really hate you showing up at their homeworld.  Hang out on the jump point if you have to invade their system; stop threatening to drop rocks on their heads.