Is Conventional start innately harder?

[vorpal+5 (OP)]

Barring not exploring outside of your home system AND having set to 0 the number of NPR at start 

The NPR(s) at start strength is based on your initial population I believe, not your industrial output, research etc. So if you start conventional it does mean that in essence you are giving, power-curve wise, some 5-15 years of headstart to the 1+ NPRs you have declared as existing from the start, right?

Just wanting to confirm I got the hang on things before restarting.

[Garfunkel]

That is correct.

[Zincat]

I would say that's very optimistic, curve wise  .
You  start with nothing and then you have to convert your industry, survey your home systems at very slow speed etc. They start with a lot of tech researched and they can immediately start to explore/expand/claim interesting systems. Depending on the situation and the galaxy map, it may be a lot worse than just the equivalent of 15 years.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would say that's very optimistic, curve wise  .
You  start with nothing and then you have to convert your industry, survey your home systems at very slow speed etc. They start with a lot of tech researched and they can immediately start to explore/expand/claim interesting systems. Depending on the situation and the galaxy map, it may be a lot worse than just the equivalent of 15 years.

It s even worse if you also lower the research speed to say... 20% and start with 3 pre generated NPR. I did that in my current campaign... might probably not end well, but I enjoy the challenge.

[Ri0Rdian]

I was gonna say: Only harder if you start with NPR but you got that covered...


But the idea of being 15 years behind, I am not sure... I even think it is kinda fluid and you probably start even worse and to a big degree it depends on luck too, specifically the minerals (how many, how hard to get and where you get them). Getting Mars with 3-4 minerals of which at least 1 is Duranium and if you get Corundium = win. Colonising Mars is easy and you can pump out mines like crazy and ship them off for other minerals. On the other hand if you get no minerals there you are in for some trouble because you will need to vary your mining a lot and that is problematic (takes more time to get X automines to X destinations). If the NPR gets lucky and you unlucky the gap could be growing wider even as you rush everything.

It makes for a very interesting games but I still start without NPR. Hate playing 5-10 hours only to get steamrolled 

[liveware]

In my recent conventional start I didn't find a hostile NPR until about 150 years into the game. I still was not adequately prepared and might not survive the encounter.

So I think the conventional start is harder... but I also think it is more interesting.

[James Patten]

When I do a conventional start, I add a zero (at least) to the minerals on Earth, as it usually takes me 50 years to get to a point where I'm able to mine other planets in a meaningful way, never mind be able to explore.

[Borealis4x]

I wish you could make NPR's start as primitive if not more than you. I like the idea of starting from scratch, but it just makes the game so much harder.

[Omnivore]

I don't find it harder, or at least much harder, since I use the standard settings (research included).  Then again, I don't turtle, I aggressively expand, pound on research heavily, and keep plenty of sensor buoys out.  Even if they have a tech edge on you, if you can catch them where you want them (ambush) you can come out ahead.

I like the more natural build up that a conventional start gives you.  No rush to spend 80K research and 43K BP just to start.  If you play with civilians on, you can make an early move to colonize the moon even before you have TN tech, this gets the ball rolling quickly.  Unlike a TN start, you discover what you need as you go along and tend not to waste as much research on unnecessary things. 

My 2c worth anyhow

[Arcanestomper]

My current campaign is not only a conventional start, but one where I am roleplaying a corrupt and bloated bureaucracy.  I'm allocating research labs to my scientists with the highest bonuses regardless of what the current need is to represent their increased sway in academia.  Although now that I think about it I should probably have done it by their administration bonus instead.

It's 50 years in and my tugs just finished pulling some orbital mining platforms out to an asteroid to maybe relieve my Duranium crunch.  I couldn't make any colonies as cryogenic bays just finished researching and colony ships are still on the drawing boards.  Jump Theory isn't finished so exploring outside the system isn't even an option.  My naval planners aren't even sure jump points are actually real.  So the closest thing to a warship I have is a prototype design for a laser corvette that is more a way for several military contractors to get their R&D funded than a serious military proposal.

Could I play more efficiently, yes.  Is the first NPR I find going to wreck me, probably.  But sometimes its fun to just mess around.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

My current campaign is not only a conventional start, but one where I am roleplaying a corrupt and bloated bureaucracy.  I'm allocating research labs to my scientists with the highest bonuses regardless of what the current need is to represent their increased sway in academia.  Although now that I think about it I should probably have done it by their administration bonus instead.

It's 50 years in and my tugs just finished pulling some orbital mining platforms out to an asteroid to maybe relieve my Duranium crunch.  I couldn't make any colonies as cryogenic bays just finished researching and colony ships are still on the drawing boards.  Jump Theory isn't finished so exploring outside the system isn't even an option.  My naval planners aren't even sure jump points are actually real.  So the closest thing to a warship I have is a prototype design for a laser corvette that is more a way for several military contractors to get their R&D funded than a serious military proposal.

Could I play more efficiently, yes.  Is the first NPR I find going to wreck me, probably.  But sometimes its fun to just mess around.

Prioritize them by Political Reliability bonus.

If they ever actually produce a deliverable, then they are grifting wrong.

Some people start fires just to watch it burn.

[liveware]

Could I play more efficiently, yes.  Is the first NPR I find going to wreck me, probably.  But sometimes its fun to just mess around.

Getting glassed by a race of superior beings is a wonderfully humbling experience. Part of what I like about the conventional start is that you need to plan in advance for some basic technologies and ship capabilities otherwise you are probably not going to survive.

[Arcanestomper]

My current campaign is not only a conventional start, but one where I am roleplaying a corrupt and bloated bureaucracy.  I'm allocating research labs to my scientists with the highest bonuses regardless of what the current need is to represent their increased sway in academia.  Although now that I think about it I should probably have done it by their administration bonus instead.

It's 50 years in and my tugs just finished pulling some orbital mining platforms out to an asteroid to maybe relieve my Duranium crunch.  I couldn't make any colonies as cryogenic bays just finished researching and colony ships are still on the drawing boards.  Jump Theory isn't finished so exploring outside the system isn't even an option.  My naval planners aren't even sure jump points are actually real.  So the closest thing to a warship I have is a prototype design for a laser corvette that is more a way for several military contractors to get their R&D funded than a serious military proposal.

Could I play more efficiently, yes.  Is the first NPR I find going to wreck me, probably.  But sometimes its fun to just mess around.

Prioritize them by Political Reliability bonus.

If they ever actually produce a deliverable, then they are grifting wrong.

Some people start fires just to watch it burn.

I didn't realize scientists could get a political reliability bonus. I didn't have that setting enabled, but I turned it on. We'll see if any newly recruited scientists have started adhering to the party line in hopes of better prospects.

[Borealis4x]

I've been playing a conventional start and couldn't be happier!

Now, I did start with 12 billion population, so I got 20,000 conventional industries and 200 labs, so my start was easier but I nonetheless found it satisfying converting all my industries into TN installations and building up things from scratch.

I did make sure no TN NPRs spawned, as I don't want to worry about them. I'll turn them on when I'm good and ready.

[vorpal+5 (OP)]

I've been playing a conventional start and couldn't be happier!

Now, I did start with 12 billion population, so I got 20,000 conventional industries and 200 labs, so my start was easier but I nonetheless found it satisfying converting all my industries into TN installations and building up things from scratch.

I did make sure no TN NPRs spawned, as I don't want to worry about them. I'll turn them on when I'm good and ready.

Hopefully in the real universe, aliens will have the same courtesy