Using "real" ships to practice ship design: Amun-Ra stealth frigate, the Expanse

[Iestwyn (OP)]

If you've read this speal already, sorry: I'm getting back into Aurora for the first time in a LONG time. In order to reacquaint myself with the game, I decided to try and replicate ships from existing sci-fi universes in Aurora. So I turned on SpaceMaster, gave myself ALL the tech, and started messing around.

I should say that while I tried to make things as effective as possible, I tried to challenge myself by sticking to every bit of released material available. That... made things difficult, as you'll see. Also, giving myself all the techs had the side effect of making some things more powerful than I wanted, since I can't "tone down" some technologies, like armor.

So I started with a pretty complicated craft: the Amun-Ra stealth frigate from the Expanse (https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Amun-Ra-class). The Expanse takes place in a world where humanity has just barely developed propulsion effective enough to travel the solar system effectively: the Epstein Drive (I think it'd be a nuclear pulse engine in Aurora, so I went with that). The Amun-Ra specifically is unusual for the time in that it has rudimentary stealth technology. It's also got several parasites: a long-range shuttlecraft and nine boarding pods.

I'll start from the very bottom and work up. The boarding pods have a small contingent of armed soldiers in them, which meant it was time for me to design my very first formation template:

Code: [Select]

Protogen Boarding Party
Transport Size: 250 tons
Build Cost: 19.2 BP
48x Protogen Boarder
1x Protogen Boarding Commander

Protogen Boarder
Transport Size (tons) 5     Cost 0.38     Armour 67.5     Hit Points 45
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.048     Resupply Cost 1
Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 45      Damage 45

Boarding Combat

Protogen Boarding Commander
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 1     Armour 45     Hit Points 45
Annual Maintenance Cost 0.13     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 1,000

Boarding Combat
Like I said, this is literally the first time I've ever made a formation, so let me know everything I did right/wrong.

Next, there's the breaching pods that deliver the boarders to the target ship:

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Windlass class Breaching Pod      500 tons       12 Crew       43.8 BP       TCS 10    TH 21    EM 0
2083 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
Maint Life 27.66 Years     MSP 54    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 2    Max Repair 45 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Boarding Capable   
Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Compact Epstein Drive (1)    Power 20.8    Fuel Use 387.78%    Signature 20.80    Explosion 13%
Fuel Capacity 48,000 Litres    Range 4.5 billion km (24 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This didn't seem too difficult: just slap something together that gets the troops to the target. ... Right?

The long-range shuttle was a little more complicated. It's supposed to be kinda stealthy. Too small for a cloaking device with NP tech, so I had to stick with a reduced-signature engine.

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Khonsu class Long-range Shuttlecraft      500 tons       10 Crew       59.9 BP       TCS 10    TH 12    EM 0
1600 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 6      Sensors 12/12/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 20    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 6    5YR 90    Max Repair 45 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Compact Stealth Epstein Drive (1)    Power 16.0    Fuel Use 25.16%    Signature 12.0000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 71,000 Litres    Range 101.6 billion km (735 days at full power)

Small Craft LADAR (1)     GPS 1600     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 100
Small Craft Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.4m km
Small Craft EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.4m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
Last came the Amun-Ra itself, and the design I'm least proud of. This is mostly because the Amun-Ra itself has a lot of features, and I felt like I really should try and shove everything in that was listed. The result was something that was criminally slow and short-ranged.

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Amun-Ra class Frigate      16,000 tons       304 Crew       2,046.7 BP       TCS 320    TH 123    EM 0
1100 km/s      Armour 3-56       Shields 0-0       HTK 88      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 29.4
Maint Life 0.05 Years     MSP 79    AFR 2048%    IFR 28.4%    1YR 1,640    5YR 24,604    Max Repair 100 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10,000 tons     
Lord-Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 200    Morale Check Required   

SILVERSMITH Stealth Epstein Drive (4)    Power 352    Fuel Use 126.91%    Signature 30.80    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 361,000 Litres    Range 3.2 billion km (33 days at full power)

Khopesh Internal Railgun (1x4)    Range 48,000km     TS: 25,000 km/s     Power 12-4     RM 30,000 km    ROF 15       
Bush PDC Emplacement (4x2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 30000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
PDC Fire Control (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Khopesh Fire Control (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 24,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Funneled Epstein Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 4    Exp 5%

LADAR AS35-R60 (1)     GPS 1920     Range 35.3m km    Resolution 60
Missile LADAR AS7-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 7.5m km    MCR 673.6k km    Resolution 1
EM Sensor EM2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

Strike Group
1x Khonsu Long-range Shuttlecraft   Speed: 1600 km/s    Size: 9.99
9x Windlass Breaching Pod   Speed: 2083 km/s    Size: 9.98

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
So there's my makeshift version of the Amun-Ra and her parasites! What do you guys think? Obviously the constraints of the exercise made the results a little impractical in Aurora, but did I at least do a decent job making something workable?

Thanks in advance for your comments and criticism!

[Tecknitian]

Just a point, I think the Epstein fusion drives in the Expanse might be closer to the Inertial Confinement Fusion drives from this game rather the Nuclear Pulse Engines.   IIRC, the Expanse Season 4 shows the Rocinante igniting fuel pellets using what appear to be lasers in an internal chamber, which seems to match Wikipedia's description of Internal Confinement Fusion, (https://en.  wikipedia.  org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion), more closely than that of NP engines, which huck nuclear bombs out the back and push off of the blast (https://en.  wikipedia.  org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion).   Armed with that knowledge, you might be able to make your ship better with ICF engine tech . 

[Iestwyn (OP)]

Oh, that's good to know! I haven't been able to watch seasons 4-5; I just started reading the books, which is what gave me the idea. ... Now that I think about it, I might remember them mentioning fuel pellets in the book as well. Thanks!

What do you think about the designs themselves? Any obvious flaws, other than the frigate's speed?

[Lazygun]

I haven't seen The Expanse but from an Aurora point of view, your breaching pods seem to be slow and have a ridiculously long range.  4. 5 b Km.  That's Earth to Jupiter and back.  Twice.  With that sort of range, why bother carrying them around in a mothership? That feels wrong to me given what you say about propulsion tech levels. 

A range of 800 k Km seems more reasonable to me.  That's Earth to Luna and back.  But you can tweak that based on your understanding of the capability of the pods. 

Faster speed improves the chances of successfully attaching to the target and helps dodge enemy fire on the approach, so I would reduce both fuel and deployment time and put the recovered space into a larger engine.  To be true to the premise of the series, maybe make sure you design your engine without fuel economy bonus or power boosts.

[Iestwyn (OP)]

I haven't seen The Expanse but from an Aurora point of view, your breaching pods seem to be slow and have a ridiculously long range.  4. 5 b Km.  That's Earth to Jupiter and back.  Twice.  With that sort of range, why bother carrying them around in a mothership? That feels wrong to me given what you say about propulsion tech levels. 

A range of 800 k Km seems more reasonable to me.  That's Earth to Luna and back.  But you can tweak that based on your understanding of the capability of the pods. 

Faster speed improves the chances of successfully attaching to the target and helps dodge enemy fire on the approach, so I would reduce both fuel and deployment time and put the recovered space into a larger engine.  To be true to the premise of the series, maybe make sure you design your engine without fuel economy bonus or power boosts.

Perfect, this is exactly what I needed feedback on; I hadn't even noticed the breaching pods were so slow and long-ranged. Once I get to a computer, I'll change it up.

Any other obvious flaws?

[TheTalkingMeowth]

You have 10k tons of hangar space and only 5k tons of parasites.

You don't have any missiles.

Your maintenance life is nonexistent.

I think you might need more fuel and definitely need more deployment time; I thought the protogen stealth frigates were fairly long endurance craft.

Your fire control tracking speeds are really wack. I guess that's because of your tech level? Also, a 15 sec rate of fire seems fast for the spinal railgun but I don't remember if ROF was ever established in the books.

[Iestwyn (OP)]

You have 10k tons of hangar space and only 5k tons of parasites.

You don't have any missiles.

Your maintenance life is nonexistent.

I think you might need more fuel and definitely need more deployment time; I thought the protogen stealth frigates were fairly long endurance craft.

Your fire control tracking speeds are really wack. I guess that's because of your tech level? Also, a 15 sec rate of fire seems fast for the spinal railgun but I don't remember if ROF was ever established in the books.

Wow, that's a LOT of stuff I messed up. I'm really glad I did this before starting a proper game. I think I'll create a new game with all the proper tech levels and start over once I get to a computer. (I have no idea how I even forgot the torpedoes...)

[Iestwyn (OP)]

Okay, let's try this again. I made a new file and got all the tech at the level of Nuclear Pulse Engines (that is, I unlocked all the research that cost 4,000 RP or less). Everything was made from scratch and I think I fixed the issues you guys mentioned.

So here's the breaching pod:

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WINDLASS class Breaching Pod      500 tons       10 Crew       42.5 BP       TCS 10    TH 48    EM 0
4802 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 6    5YR 94    Max Repair 9 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Boarding Capable   
Capitán de Corbeta    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Compact Epstein Drive EP16.00 (3)    Power 48    Fuel Use 1252.20%    Signature 16    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 18,000 Litres    Range 0.52 billion km (29 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
Here's the long-range shuttle:

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Khonsu class Long-range Shuttlecraft      500 tons       17 Crew       84 BP       TCS 10    TH 4    EM 0
800 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 7      Sensors 8/8/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
Maint Life 39.71 Years     MSP 105    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 2    Max Repair 20 MSP
Capitán de Corbeta    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Compact Stealth Epstein Drive  EP8.00 (1)    Power 8    Fuel Use 27.67%    Signature 4.0    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 63,000 Litres    Range 82 billion km (1185 days at full power)

LADAR (Ship) AS29-R100 (1)     GPS 1600     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 100
Small Craft EM Sensor EM1.0-8.0 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22.4m km
Small Craft Thermal Sensor TH1.0-8.0 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22.4m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
And here's the Amun-Ra itself:

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Amun-Ra class Stealth Frigate      21,999 tons       388 Crew       2,463.5 BP       TCS 440    TH 660    EM 0
3000 km/s      Armour 3-69       Shields 0-0       HTK 128      Sensors 16/16/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 47
Maint Life 1.62 Years     MSP 4,869    AFR 3872%    IFR 53.8%    1YR 2,182    5YR 32,727    Max Repair 100 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 80   
Capitán de Fragata    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

SILVERSMITH Stealth Epstein Drive EP88.00 (15)    Power 1320    Fuel Use 88.83%    Signature 44.0    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 2,342,000 Litres    Range 21.6 billion km (83 days at full power)

Khopesh Internal Railgun V20/C3 (1x4)    Range 40,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
Bush PDC Emplacement R200-100 (4x2)    Range 20,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Bush PDC Coordinator R48-TS10500 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 10,500 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Khopesh Fire Control R48-TS6000 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Epstein Funneling R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

Torpedo Tubes S6 (2)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 25
Torpedo FC102-R100 (1)     Range 102.6m km    Resolution 100
Capital-Buster Torpedo (12)    Speed: 8,567 km/s    End: 170.8m     Range: 87.8m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 48/29/14

LADAR (Ship) AS29-R100 (1)     GPS 1600     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 100
LADAR (Missiles) AS6-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
Shipboard EM Sensor EM2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km
Shipboard Thermal Sensor TH2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Alright, so... what's wrong now? XD I'm sure there has to be a lot more I'm missing.

[Kelewan]

First: I have not seen "The Expanse", so my observation is purely on Aurora C# mechanics.
So if there are roleplay/lore reasons please ignore.

• It seems that the  Amun-Ra has plenty maintenance storage, but very few engineering. Thou your "Maint Life" matches the Intended deployment time,
  you will  hate to fix something every other week (IFR  53.8% = change for failrure very 5 Days), so if you are late to resupply, your ship may desintegrate
  before you can resupply. Also this will require more maintenance facilities and resources to produce the maintenance supply.
  
  I would replace some/most maintenance  storage with engineering, to reduce the failure chance. I try to keep the AFR below 100%, match the maint life to
  the intended deployment time but have a minimum of 3 times the "max repair" as maintenance supply so that i can field repair any damaged module even if
  i have used some supply
  
  
• The  Long-range Shuttlecraft is very Long-ranged. The fuel last for over 3 years at full speed, at a intended deployment time of 12 months. It has ~4 times the range
  as the Amun-Ra. As a stealth scout I would reduce the fuel for increased sensor size. Also you don't need a Bridge on a shuttle/fighter and can use the space for sensors.
  

PS.: You have not configured the strike group /parasites but i suspect you intended to use the same as the first time

[Iestwyn (OP)]

Excellent; I'll look at those in a bit. I only recently remembered what engineering spaces are for, so that's really useful.

[Iestwyn (OP)]

Alright, I think I've fixed those issues.

The long-range shuttlecraft:

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Khonsu class Long-range Shuttlecraft      500 tons       16 Crew       78 BP       TCS 10    TH 4    EM 0
800 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 5      Sensors 16/16/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
Maint Life 32.98 Years     MSP 97    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 3    Max Repair 16 MSP
Capitán de Corbeta    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Compact Stealth Epstein Drive  EP8.00 (1)    Power 8    Fuel Use 27.67%    Signature 4.0    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 13,000 Litres    Range 16.9 billion km (244 days at full power)

LADAR (Ship) AS29-R100 (1)     GPS 1600     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 100
Small Craft Thermal Sensor TH2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km
Small Craft EM Sensor EM2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
And the Amun-Ra:

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Amun-Ra class Stealth Frigate      21,999 tons       452 Crew       2,597.6 BP       TCS 440    TH 660    EM 0
3000 km/s      Armour 3-69       Shields 0-0       HTK 141      Sensors 16/16/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 47
Maint Life 3.40 Years     MSP 1,106    AFR 258%    IFR 3.6%    1YR 145    5YR 2,181    Max Repair 100 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 80   
Capitán de Fragata    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

SILVERSMITH Stealth Epstein Drive EP88.00 (15)    Power 1320    Fuel Use 88.83%    Signature 44.0    Explosion 11%
Fuel Capacity 2,072,000 Litres    Range 19.1 billion km (73 days at full power)

Khopesh Internal Railgun V20/C3 (1x4)    Range 40,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
Bush PDC Emplacement R200-100 (4x2)    Range 20,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Bush PDC Coordinator R48-TS10500 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 10,500 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Khopesh Fire Control R48-TS6000 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Epstein Funneling R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

Torpedo Tubes S6 (2)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 25
Torpedo FC102-R100 (1)     Range 102.6m km    Resolution 100
Capital-Buster Torpedo (12)    Speed: 8,567 km/s    End: 170.8m     Range: 87.8m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 48/29/14

LADAR (Ship) AS29-R100 (1)     GPS 1600     Range 29.6m km    Resolution 100
LADAR (Missiles) AS6-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
Shipboard EM Sensor EM2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km
Shipboard Thermal Sensor TH2-16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  31.6m km

Strike Group
1x Khonsu Long-range Shuttlecraft   Speed: 800 km/s    Size: 9.99
9x WINDLASS Breaching Pod   Speed: 4802 km/s    Size: 9.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Absolutely couldn't get the AFR below 100%, so I went as low as I thought was sane.

Any other issues? Or any suggestions on ships I should try to design next?

[Barkhorn]

Your boarding party's commander has 1000 command capacity, but a boarding party is only 250 tons.  So the commander could be cheaper for the same effect.

[Iestwyn (OP)]

I don't actually know how to edit that. Where is that done?

[Droll]

I don't actually know how to edit that. Where is that done?

When you are actually designing a unit with a headquarter component above the text description of the unit there is a part of the UI that is empty except one numerical value which is aptly labelled "headquarter capacity". The number there can be edited and changed to be however low, or however high you need it be.

[TheTalkingMeowth]

The boarding pods have no MSP and no engineering. Now, they only have a 1.4% chance of a failure during any 5 day increment and only have enough fuel for 29 hours of deployment, so they shouldn't ever NEED to do a repair. But if the construction cycle happens while they are deployed, you could get unlucky. Personally, I'd stick a fighter maintenance storage bay in there just in case.

Also, why do you have so many engines on your ships? Sure, redundancy is nice...but fighter size vessels are dead if they get shot by anything. A bigger engine will dramatically increase fuel efficiency. And 15! engines on the frigate is bonkers. I'd probably go with like 4.