Are military space stations (star forts) feasible?

[Dutchling (OP)]

So the point of static defence is generally that it is more efficient than mobile defence, as long as you don't mind the lack of mobility.

However in Aurora speed is very important to military units to avoid getting hit by enemy fire. So I was wondering if anyone here has any idea or experience with star forts. Specifically, would replacing a military ship's engines, jump engine, and fuel storage with point defence, shields, and more armor be expected to make it better defended than it would otherwise be, or worse? Obviously this depends on your tech, but getting hit by every single missile you don't shoot down and every single beam weapon seems like a huge issue.

And a more specific question: Would putting ECM on a 1km/s ship reduce the chances for enemy missiles to hit it below 100%?

(to be clear, I realize I can do what I want so I am probably going to make Star Forts anyway, but with "feasible" I mean "could be used for reasons other than roleplay")

[Polestar]

Certainly, avoidance of incoming can be powerful - but at even tech level, it's also expensive. Specifically, it's expensive in Gallicite, used in engines. The cost of even a mobile ship that cannot avoid most incoming might include something like 15-20% for engines. For a ship that can avoid a significant fraction, that's more like 40-50%.

Secondary expenses for mobile ships include crew, engineering/supplies, and fuel. Stationary platforms at a site with crew and supply facilities can save handsomely on the first two, and any such craft saves on the third.

Static defences do, of course, have their problems. The fact that they cannot reposition to match threats unless towed is obvious. There's a second gotcha here too: in most (but not all) fights between mobile and immobile craft, the latter will decide when to fight, and will control the range. They might have longer-ranged missiles. They might be kitted out with particle beams. Or they might charge in with carronades. It's hard to cost-effectively guard against all such threats when the threat gets to pick the opportunity and the means.

[Dutchling (OP)]

You mean particle beams are longer ranged than missiles? I was under the impression all beam-variant weapons were effectively melee weapons compared to (reasonable) missiles.

And yeah, the range is a big issue, but that can be somewhat avoided by designing long range missiles. Not having engines means more space for launchers so missiles can be a little bigger and slower in order to cover a large area.

I am planning on putting them on the 3 systems that protects my 9-system Sol Sector (incl. the three Star Fortress system). So if the fortresses aren't engaged, then the enemy is staying out of Sol!

[Barkhorn]

I use 1000 ton stations armed with size 1 missile launchers to provide AMM coverage and PPV for important colonies.  Their small size makes them easy to mass produce and move using commercial hangars.  They can have small magazines and deployment times because they're always at populations.  Combine them with STO forces to provide beam defenses, and you can have a formidable defense.

[Zincat]

It really depends on the situation, and what you're facing.
A space station usually have 35-40% more usable space for defenses or weapon compared to most ships. Between engined, fuel, additional crew space etc. Even more if the warship has to be jump capable, and so has a jump engine. And you also save a lot of gallicite, which is usually a rather scarce mineral all things considered.

As said, the lack of mobility can be a problem in terms of dictating the engagements, but I would not say the speed is a problem. Unless a warship is VERY fast for its tech level, which is a big investment on its own, speed will not generally cause a very large portion of the enemy weapons to miss. And a space station, due to the extra usable space, can mount a lot more PD/armor/shields.

Also, a mobile force can move, as the name says, while stations are usually just for protecting planets or jump points. So you lose flexibility.

As said it depends on the situation. Starbases can be exceptionally efficient in the following situations imo
-PD/AMM stations protecting an important planet. Amazing amount of PD/AMM "power" for the tonnage
-Beam station protecting an important planet from beam warships/fighters. Will likely need particle lances to be truly effective, or good tech lasers, but once again, amazing stopping power for the tonnage
-Missile stations protecting a planet. This is the closest equivalent of the VB6 aurora PDC, and it's a lot of missiles avilable for the tonnage

If used for jump point defense instead, you have two possibilities imo
- the aforementioned missile station, which can be very powerful
- a "carrier" station, to park somewhat further away from the jump point. Load it with a TON of fighters, enjoy the show
PD or beam stations don't make much sense for jump point defense, because the enemy can quickly flee outside of your range, so they lose a lot of their meaning.

[skoormit]

PD or beam stations don't make much sense for jump point defense, because the enemy can quickly flee outside of your range, so they lose a lot of their meaning.

Beam stations can work as JP defense if you can pack enough of an alpha strike to severely cripple any incoming fleet.
The defense stations don't have to destroy all of the hostiles with that first shot, just hurt them so badly that your system garrison fleet can mop up. 

Of course, if you can make a defense fleet with that much alpha, you can probably just build a mobile force instead and go dominate the enemy in his own space.

[Jorgen_CAB]

There are a few things to consider with stations...

1. They don't need much engineering components if you also provide maintenance facilities, either orbital or ground depending on where the station are placed, just enough to survive for a while if the maintenance stations are destroyed.

2. You can literally make them enormous (the don't care about jump drives) and nearly impossible to take down unless you pound on them for a very long time. So you could potentially leave a shipyard on expanding for a long time to build some 2-300kt stations and place them as jump gate protection.

3. They can have extreme amount of shields so attacking them at distance with beams will be pointless due to how much their shields regenerate every turn. They also can tank large missile alpha strikes through box launchers easier than anything else.

4. It is possible to move stations with "Tugs" so they can still be functional in limited mobile warfare, such as acting as a mobile defensive anchorage for a fleet. Sometime you might need to retreat a fleet to the other side of a JP and then it is good to have such a beast defending the other side. But such tactic rely in you having stabilised the JP to where you will leave that anchorage point.

Of course, in general, ships with engines are more dynamic and strategically stronger. But sometimes a station like this will be a huge force multiplier and can serve a vital strategical role.

[Dutchling (OP)]

I just realized that my plan (put a long range missile star fortress on a planet and protect both the planet and ALL the jump points that way while getting maintained by the planet) is... not really feasible. Not with my missile tech at least.

Actually putting star fortresses on a jump gate makes more sense, but then I need to constantly tow it back and forth to overhaul it.

Doesn't seem ideal. I might revisit this idea more if I get more tech, but system-wide missiles seem quite far away at this point.

[skoormit]

Actually putting star fortresses on a jump gate makes more sense, but then I need to constantly tow it back and forth to overhaul it.

Per the C# changes list, you should be able to overhaul at any deep space location with maintenance modules.
So you would not need to haul the star fort back and forth. You can haul the maintenance garage to the star fort.

[Cobaia]

I use deep stations with maint and commercial hangars then stock them with meson fighters for JP defence. It doesn't work too well due to the NPR just poking around and my need to deploy and fire but sometimes it gets the job done.

[Dreadder]

I always liked using heavily armed space forts to guard my home system jump points though to be fair, it has more to do with RPing than actual need for them. It's difficult to say how efficient they are, since they've never been tested in a large scale engagement, they did however shred smaller hostile fleets through sheer brute force before their shields even started to become depleted. And there's still plenty of armour under them even if they would. I usually have a hangar or two of fighters to chase down any evading ship as well, therefore solving the problem of their immobility partially.

I slapped a recreational module on them, so there's no crew morale issues and they can be maintained by maintenance modules. The only reason I see that I'd need to tug them back to colony is, if they'd suffer casualties, since there's no other way to transfer new crew to them currently.

JP space forts would be much more powerful though if Aurora'd always stop the increment as soon as enemy ship transfers through JP - therefore catching them blind, but as far as I know, sometimes, due to the way the increments and detection works in Aurora, that moment can be missed - someone please correct me if I'm mistaken about that.

[Barkhorn]

You're not mistaken, but it can be alleviated somewhat by placing sensor buoys on the dangerous side of the JP, to provide more warning of approaching ships.

[vorpal+5]

I use 1000 ton stations armed with size 1 missile launchers to provide AMM coverage and PPV for important colonies.  Their small size makes them easy to mass produce and move using commercial hangars.  They can have small magazines and deployment times because they're always at populations.  Combine them with STO forces to provide beam defenses, and you can have a formidable defense.

Can you provide a design or two of these? Just for the record. Not too high tech please! 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Here is a small AMM platform for deployment above a colony...

Code: [Select]

Phalanx class Orbital Defence Platform      999 tons       35 Crew       171.2 BP       TCS 20    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 4-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 12      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 8
Maint Life 1.19 Years     MSP 40    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 29    5YR 438    Max Repair 31.56 MSP
Magazine 107   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   


Type-3 Anti-missile Launcher  RR-60 (8)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
MD-50  ATM Fire-control system  Mk-III (1)     Range 17.1m km    Resolution 1

MX-25  ATM Sensor System  Mk-III (1)     GPS 11     Range 6.1m km    MCR 545.7k km    Resolution 1
You might also want to use some more potent command station to provide some better sensor coverage, the active on the platform is only for backup.

[spazomatic]

I have been using a modular design for military space stations lately and am pretty pleased with the results.  Instead of trying to build and deploy a single large station, I have sensor modules, hanger modules, defense modules, etc.  Technically they are all separate units, but I just picture them as all connected   For additional RP realism I fit them all with a tractor beam and tractor them together.
It is also convenient when it comes to upgrades.  If I get new sensor tech I don't have to replace a 200K space station, just the sensor module. Also kind of nice to be able to put your magazines in their own module to minimize explosions.

Each of these modules is usually a little weaker defensively probably than a single monolithic station, but I compensate for this with redundancies for critical modules like sensors.

Biggest issue I have with stations is that guns don't work particularly well for offense since you have no ability to dictate range, so I rely on fighters and missiles for offense.