Pre-industrial NPRs: Conditions and properties?

[Second Foundationer (OP)]

What are the conditions to generate primitives? Are they always supposed to be just poor people with nothing else, not even stone tools (=1 conventional industry per many, many people), pikemen or whatnot? And inevitably unable to communicate? I don't precisely remember how they worked in VB6 Aurora and don't know, if anything, what may have changed. I couldn't catch a comprehensive answer in a search. I'd like to know generally, but in this instance, the settings were: Real stars Earth start in 1.9->...->1.9.4, generate non-TN races is ticked off. And there are other, TN NPRs around.

I also want to make sure there's no bug involved. After conquering them, a peep into the db reveals nothing obvious to me. The "Vathkree Alliance"seems to be/have been an ordinary NPR, only with a "PreIndustrial" flag set to 1.

[Garfunkel]

AFAIK based on VB6 experience and what Steve wrote about C# changes:

The "generate non-TN races" means that ALL NPRs are generated as non-TN. If you tick that box, you will not encounter any high tech NPRs.

Conventional NPR will always remain conventional and be passive.

Since they do not have any sensors, they will not be able to communicate with you because they cannot see you. Father Tim came up with a workaround - turn transponder on for your diploship and that should do the trick.

Conventional NPR should not have any facilities aside from conventional industry. I do not know the exact calculation of 1 CI per X pop or whether there is a random element.

They will have ground units but these should be conventional as well.

Once conquered, you can use them as source for labour whether normally or through forced labour camps.

[Second Foundationer (OP)]

Thank you for the detailed answer.

These seem to have had literally nothing. So, if they are always supposed to have at least some conventional industry and troops, I may have encountered a bug. (I haven't read all the latest bug reports and fixes. Plus, they may have been generated in a previous 1.9.x version, I'll have to check the log.) I'll go through my backups with more time. But the problem presumably occurs at the moment they are generated. And that would be impossible/very hard to reproduce.

I had actually parked a small jump-capable diplo-ship with a large "Shoot me, I am here" sign (activated transponder for all) in orbit after making sure that there were no ships, no planetary forces, no shipyards, only a large EM signature, and a smaller thermal one. "Attempting" communication (it remains there after conquest), no further messages I can remember seeing. After roughly two years and nothing else to do with them, they were annexed. No combat, immediate capitulation and handover after bringing enough troops. And they have 0 anything, not even CI.
But it doesn't break my universe in any way. And they do have useful environmental tolerances, so they will be turned into a valuable member world. Non-violent victorious war: My next election is as good as wrapped up. All I have to do is find a way to silence the Federalists and Nationalists who run around on the streets in front of my office shouting "inhuman warmongering", "reckless entanglement in xenoaffairs" and other such nonsense...

[Garfunkel]

If they didn't even have wealth, then there might have been an issue when generating them.

Unless Steve added Stone Age NPRs

[kks]

Hmmm, Stoneage NPCs.

Well, as long as you can conquer and enslave enlighten them, everything's great.

[Second Foundationer (OP)]

So, I was right about the stone tools, huh? [sifts through one year of event log] Yes, I remember from VB6 that there should be some "As a result of conquest: ¥€$" message for a homeworld. Even 750 million proud obsidian knife owners are supposed to have some kind of economy.
But no wealth arrived here. All embezzled. It might even be useful, for once, the starfleet program is expensive. We're down to 36,000 from idle hoards of cash accumulated under incompetent leadership before. Event log just says "TT squadron completed orders." and "Enemy forces (what forces?) have been defeated and the enemy population have surrendered.", nothing else. (better make that: my future, eternally grateful supporters; only, please, could someone explain to that stoneman how a shower works..?)

I will report it as a potential bug then after a few checks, probably tomorrow. Thanks.

[Ehndras]

What if you give them ships, or form a colony with assorted industry and let them take it, or give them tech, etc? They still just sit there?

[Second Foundationer (OP)]

As I read "Conventional NPR will always remain conventional and be passive.", they should be brainless (AI-less) and therefore wouldn't know what to do with those things even if you SM them in. (Edit: I almost forgot: you can't, for an NPR. Isn't there a "transfer" button? Is that fully implemented? I haven't reached that point yet. So, I don't even know if and how you can do it.)
But I'm no expert, and I haven't tested it.

[Father Tim]

As I read "Conventional NPR will always remain conventional and be passive.", they should be brainless (AI-less) and therefore wouldn't know what to do with those things even if you SM them in. (Edit: I almost forgot: you can't, for an NPR. Isn't there a "transfer" button? Is that fully implemented? I haven't reached that point yet. So, I don't even know if and how you can do it.)
But I'm no expert, and I haven't tested it.

Many (all?) of the 'Give Colony' and 'Give Ships' and 'Give Minerals' buttons are not in C# Aurora yet.

So, short of database tinkering, you can't give "ships and assorted factories" to NPRs.

[vorpal+5]

Ah, this answer my question about doing detailed setups for NPR Human on Earth!

[Second Foundationer (OP)]

Many (all?) of the 'Give Colony' and 'Give Ships' and 'Give Minerals' buttons are not in C# Aurora yet.

One place where I see a "Transfer Alien" button is the Ground Forces window. I don't know if it's functional.

Trial & error AAR: Clicking it reveals that I can only move a formation to alien population if one exists on the same body. But I can't add a new population to an already existing NPR, or can I? So, it's impossible to give anything to an NPR for the present. All you can SMdo is create a new one setting basic parameters, but no detailed custom setups.

[Father Tim]

But I can't add a new population to an already existing NPR, or can I? So, it's impossible to give anything to an NPR for the present. All you can SMdo is create a new one setting basic parameters, but no detailed custom setups.

If you mean an NPR run entirely by Aurora via AI, then no, you can't give them much of anything at the moment.

If you're willing to run the NPR yourself, you have far more control over what they do.

[Vasious]

What if you give them ships, or form a colony with assorted industry and let them take it, or give them tech, etc? They still just sit there?

In VB they would still be passive and do nothing, so far to assume the same in C#

[Garfunkel]

Unless Steve has kept it a secret from us, which I doubt, there is no AI for handling the transition from conventional to trans-Newtonian.

Furthermore, the AI has its own designs for ships and ground units using special classes that are invisible to the player. It would not know what to do with a ship that does not belong to one of those.

[Caplin]

I'm not Steve, obviously, but I imagine that at some point an uplift process could be coded, or perhaps the NPRs will eventually discover TN tech on their own. It's a big part of the Starfire system which AURora took inspiration from,  so I imagine it will be possible someday.