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Coco's Chapter 12 Review:

I may have missed something here, but the Roman's mention something being based on a 'Papilio'. What is that?

I really think that this scene with the Roman tanks taking on the Numerians is one of the best written in the whole book!  Its exciting, fun, doesn't ever get boring or tedious, seriously, I love it!  :)

The part at the beginning with the Numerian infantry is alight, but the best part is by far where the Roman's have to go up against the Numie tanks themselves.

I think the fact that the Romans have a computer system capable of automatically managing their tanks is another very nice example of how the Numies are behind the human nations in terms of military thinking.  They just don't have the same organisation and communication in their army that the Terrans and Romans do.

Do the Numerian Sharolei tanks have a turret?  Seems to me like they might have a gun in the hull instead?  Also, aside from the huge Assault tanks, do the numerians opperate any different types of tank then the Sharolei?

How long have the Terrans and the Romans been in space for?  The Terrans I would say a few hundred years at a maximum, but what about the Romans?  I suspect they've been there for hundreds more?  Or even thousands?

Are the Numerians the only species in the Commonwealth?  Or do they have any subject species or similar?  I heard mention that there were bandits in the commonwealth, and the Numerians themselves didn't seem to be the kind that would turn to banditry?

The ambush scene is also very fun, particularly with Cav and her rifle, and the cheesy Frenchman (Gaul) that turns up in that Roman scout vehicle!

Well, that's it!  The last chapter of the book!  I've already told you quite a bit about what I thought about the merits of the book, but given that my review process has now come to and end I don't think there's any harm in a quick recap!  The best thing about this book is that it was easy to read, never difficult to follow the plot or understand what is going on.  Not only that, but it wasn't boring at any point, I found that I thoroughly enjoyed it, its a nice story with lots of cool action.  No frills or silly asides from what is really important!  This is the kinda book you'd like to take on holiday with you.

Thorgrimm Wrote:

1)  Papilio is Latin for Tent. In that era they had 10 Legionnaires to a tent. So I just named their APC Papilio as a reference to that fact.  :)

2)  They say write what you know, and I think I happen to know a bit about Armored Warfare. At least I would like to think so!  ;D

3)  Modern Industrial Scale Warfare forces a Nation to give up any ideas about individual combat, in favor for teamwork and mass combat. A nation will never be able to organize an effective large-scale military with a Warrior Mindset. Unfortunately for the Numies they are mired in the mindset of the individual warrior as the highest form of warfare.

4) The Numie Sharolei is more like an Assault Gun than a real tank in that their main gun is mounted in the hull, and not a turret. They are inspired by the German Sturmgeshutz IV of WW2 fame.

4a)  Haegan will have to answer if the Numies use any other types of armor. I am sure they do, but I cannot answer for their creator.

5) Haegan will have to answer this one.

5a) The Numies consider the Terran Commerce Raiders as bandits, that may be what you may have confused for normal bandits.

6) Cav is based off of a friend of mine who is a Marine Scout/Sniper, only he is a guy.  ;D

7}  That is some real high praise my friend! I thank you for it!

What is the next book you would like to review?

Coco Wrote:

I think I'll go with the book about the first contact between the Terrans and Romans?

Haegan Wrote:

Okay, those 2 questions are both easy and hard.

Numerians are by far the dominate species inside of the Commonwealth. The other two are the Oangyl ( a water species that has migrated to slightly more then 30 planets) and the Ghentilie(picture four foot high Lemurs). Both species are considered full citizens.

While the Oangyl are a full member of the  Commonwealth, the fact that they weigh in at 6 to 8 tons each makes it difficult for them to interact directly with the land folk. They tend to inhabit salt water with a salinity similar to Earths oceans, but can survive in fresh water with few issues(other then the water tastin funny). I tend to see them as miniature hump back whales with odd arms for forward fins. the fins have an ending that has three manipulators similar to fingers with only 2 joints instead of the three that humans have.

The Ghentilie tend to spend much of their time in space and form a fare portion of the space born merchant traffic the Commonwealth have. It is speculated that they have been genetically altered at some point in the far past as the body seems to have been altered to perform best in low or zero G gravity. They do not suffer from the effects of long term low or zero G gravity like humans and Numerians do.

In regards to the other question about Numerian armor. Terrans see armor as tanks, etc. The Commonwealth includes power armor and walking mechs into the definition as well.

Most of the available armors will fill the positions that the Terrans have rather nicely at least in the unit formations that employ them.

It is to be noted that the current designs have not been fundamentally changed in tens of thousands of years. There simply has been no need. This all having been said, I can say that most armor that is used is optimized for small unit formations and the combats that result.

Thorgrimm Wrote:

A Test of Wills it is!

@ Haegan, good species to do full write ups about!

Coco's Chapter 11 Review:

Chapter 11

Well, I rather liked the scene at the beginning, what with the jets flying straight overhead like that!  Really shows a whole, 'oh hell' moment for the Numies.  This is obviously the main turning point of the book, some of the numerians think they've reached the crescendo, finally pushed the Terrans outta the mountains! What a nasty surprise in store for 'em!

I also like the scene with the Marines, particularly Alex, getting in close with the Numerians, and giving them a good kicking!  I think that this scene is far more then a simple action scene, rather it highlights the fact that while the Numerians may know individually more about the theory of war, they don't know nearly so much as the Terrans about the practicalities, I rather doubt most of these Numerians have ever actually fought in a real war?

Speaking of, I was wondering if the Numerians have recently fought a big war?  From what I gathered from the book its been tens of thousands of years since their last full scale conflict?  In comparison many terran officers and NCOs fought in the Denevan wars?  It really compounds the idea that the Numerians aren't doing what they should in this war?

I just saw a mention of a 'Numerian Marksman'  Do the Numerians make use of snipers?  I was under the impression that Snipers were something they hadn't seen until fighting the terrans?  (I think there is an intermediary role between the sniper and ordinary rifleman?  But my military knowledge is mostly limited to military history, I'm afraid.)

I'm sure this has been answered before, but are the Romans more or less advanced than the Terrans?  Also, how does their military  compare to that of the Terrans?  Obviously they are in possession of Tanks, but I also think I read that their army was only very recently 'standardised'?

Heh, I still very mauch enjoy the reference to the Sherman firefly made with those Roman Tanks, I was also wondering, do the Whitman's outfitted with the Gauss cannons make an appearance on the series?  And also, are they using the same Roman-built gauss gun?

Oh, I do have a question that I may have already touched on, I asked if the Terrans had any potential allies, you mentioned some, but I was wondering if any asside from the Romans do actually come to help the Terrans during this war?

Well, asside from a mention that what follows is one of the best action scenes in the book, that's all!  Also, I'm having trouble with chapter 12, same as last time I had these problems, I'll need to get you to send me the bock again!

Thorgrimm wrote:

1)  Yep, nasty indeed!

2) Yep, they are the Universe's best warriors, but I would have to say they are also the Universe's worst soldiers. They know everything about individual combat, and nothing about fighting as a part of a team.

3)  IIRC Haegan and I figured it had been 25K Years since their last dust-up with the Draugir. Yep most of the Terran officers and Senior NCOs fought in the Denevan War 25 years ago. They are doing what they have been taught, but, again, in a war like this it is the wrong thing to learn!

4)  No, IIRC the mention was that all Numerians are marksmen, as a whole they are some of the best shots. They do not use Snipers, per say. Snipers are dishonorable to them. Yes, there is what is called a Squad Designated Marksmen. That middle ground between a full sniper and just an ordinary soldier.

5) Yes, they are more advanced than the Terrans. They have pretty much the same equipment as the Terrans, just a whole lot more advanced. The Roman method of fighting is still mired in the Legion. Unfortunately for them, as seen in the Denevan war, the Faction Politics drives their armed forces, and this is just as bad as the Numie Warrior Mindset.

6) Lol, yep, the Brits were smart putting the 17 pdr AT gun on the Sherman, so the Glowfly is my homage to that. Good catch!!! Yes, they appear later, and yep same cannon. Terran cannon makers are still struggling to reduce the size of our Gauss Cannons.

7) The Hallies want to, but the Terran President does not want them to. He knows the Numies would wipe them out as well, for helping the Terrans.

Good review bud and thanks!

Hop on to Skype and I will send it to you again.

Haegan wrote:

The Numerians would do well against the Terran's in small units versus small units. Frankly, they have forgotten the basics of mass scale (large army versus large army) warfare. They do much better in space, but still do not have the Terran's sophistication in that either.

Of course they are not as well armed as the units that go against the Draugir, but even those units have the same mentality and would likely take even larger losses at first due to even more extreme over confidence.

Its the extreme pasting that the Numerian ground units are taking that forces a re-evaluation of the Numerian training and combat practices for ground units. Aerobhin even gets a chance to say "I told you so" later on. I do not remember if Ken and I had decided to add that scene or not , but it does not represent of the end of the problems the Numerians have. The Commonwealth is not small and has a surprising number of factions that choose to ignore the evidence in front of them. They will continue to take horrific losses on the ground while the units Aerobhin leads actually manage to do much better.

Cheers, Thor

Coco's Chapter Nine Review:

Chapter 9

Well, once again we get a little chuckle from Jenny and Isuro, I feel so sorry for that guy, he so obviously doesn't want to be on that shuttle with that crazy woman, but there's no escape for him!

Jenny really strikes me into the type of person that considers a shuttle crash to be am 'Energetic landing''.  She really is cool, she gives the book its dose of comic relief.

I will admit, I'm really curious to see the story of the four spec ops types there on the shuttle with them, I really rather doubt that the Numies are gonna like coming into contact with invisible soldiers, these were dangerous though, very close to f***ing ninjas.

I do wonder, does Jenny ever get a chance to go all Dirty Harry with that revolver of hers?  I'm assuming she hasn't just got a 20th century gun as her side arm?  She's got some fancy upgrades or modern ammo, right?

Also, Cavendish really is the kind of person that you want to keep locked up like Hannible Lecter, she's crazy and obviously enjoys her job a little too much...  Awesome character.

The plasma rifles the terrans use, these are basically pray and spray things, right?

I love the scene with the ambush in the canyon, these Whitman tanks are cool, can I ask, if the standard tanks' guns handle the numies just fine, why the need to install the gauss cannon in some tanks?

Is it wrong that I really wanna know what happens to the Numie tank commander from the Ambush?  I'm honestly curious, he doesn't seem to be the same rabidly-hating kind, he's almost somebody you can feel sympathetic to.

Hmmh, Gaiven is Arrogant, he's the kinda guy that you really wanna dislike, but somehow you know he's going to turn out ok in the end,

Also, I got a good chuckle at the Batman-desception!

Haegan Wrote:
Jenny is one of my favorite characters as well. You have not seen much of Paul Dugan, but I liked him as well in the previous books in the Deneven war.

IIRC, the tank commander is one of the few Numerians the Terrans have been able to take captive. Ken has a really nifty scene where the prison hospital is described. However I think that it is old canon and needs updating.

Thorgrimm Wrote:
Coco, I apologize for taking so long to reply to your post, The Thanksgiving holiday and 'Black' Friday got in the way and took up all of my time.  :-[

Yeah, Jenny and Izzy are the perfect comedic duo for this story. Jenny was introduced in the Denevan War, while this story is the debut for Isuro.

Yep, Jenny is absolutely the personality type to consider a crash landing a good one. Excessive amounts of confidence and fearlessness abound in her.  ;D

Have no fear, you will get to see the Ghost Ryder and his team in action. I think you will like it too.  8)

You better believe it. She has all the modern ammo types. The .44 mag she carries has been modified so that it can use a binary propellant. Yes, she does get to go all 'Dirty Harry' on the Holy Rollers and she has plenty of modern weapons.

Yep, Cav is one of those types that you have locked up in a room with "Do not let out, except in case of war," on the door!  ;D

No, they have a good 800 yard range, it's just the plasma rifles have such a high rate of fire that it seems like they are 'spray 'n' pray' types.

You have not read yet where they encounter the Aero'Bei super tank Captain Fox gave the briefing on earlier in the book about. Trust me, they will need it!  ;)

Engrei makes an appearance later in the story and you are correct. He is one of the reasonable Numies, and he is just doing what he is told.

In the next chapter Gaiven gets to eat some humble pie, served up by the Terrans.  ;) ;D

Yeah, my love of comic books is peeking through!  8) ;D

Good review and glad to see you are enjoying the story bud, thanks!!

Cheers, Thor

Coco Wrote:
No problem, holiday season and all that :)  And yeah, The Terrans have a really strong "Old and trusty" vibe going on with them, they aren't really upgrading to new things if the old ones still get the job one, right?

Oh, I do have one question the terrans seem to have gone from Gauss weapons -> Plasma then back to Gauss?

Thorgrimm Wrote:
When needed the updates are done immediately. However the philosophy is: "If it ain't broken, no need to fix it."

As in the real world they try all weapons types, and use the best ones to accomplish the mission. Against the Denevans energy weapons were the best. While against the Numies kinetic weapons are best.

Cheers, Thor

Haegan Wrote:
As an aside, Numerian and Draugir weapons tech is almost totally energy based. As such, their defenses are specialized towards energy discharges, not kinetic. Oddly, they are sufficiently advanced to actually be vulnerable to really older tech as their defenses simply don't take high energy kinetics into account.

Neither side uses lasers any longer, but protection against lasers is included in their layered defenses. They use more esoteric weapons like anti-matter conversion beams, fusion weapons, and gravity wave weapons as standards. Their bigger craft will mount more esoteric(and dramatically more destructive) weapons, but we do not see them until much later.

Haegan Wrote:
The BB come in different models, with the main battle fleet units that are reserved for the Draugir or Nephilim carry the more nasty capabilities and the resulting maintenance that come with it.

However, both the Draugir and the Numies maintain Mega-Capital Carriers capable of dropping thousands of fighters each into a battle. Needless to say, they are prime targets for both sides.

One of the reasons that we do not see large unit movements from the Commonwealth Battle Fleet units is that the Draugir are deliberately flexing their muscles and  making threatening movements at the Borders. Otherwise the Fleets the Terrans would be facing would notably larger. As it is, the Terrans are fighting the Defensive fleets and resources provided by only 2 of the Commonwealths sectors. The Sanei do/did not believe that more was required...

Towards the end of the fighting on Rigel the Sanei have to open the general war warehouses to provide basic war materials to Aerobhins forces. The Terrans were getting really good at convoy raiding and it is not until near the end of the book that Aerobhin is able to enforce general convoys and get sufficient escorts for them.

Generally, while the Numies and the Draugir understand that war is about infrastructure, they do the equivalent by blowing the crap out of each others planets.

Coco's Chapter 8 Review

Chapter 8

Not much to say about the first little part, but the next part is back to Jenny ,Isuro and co on their crazy flight to Rigel.  I love that part so much, it may be pretty light-hearted, especially in comparison to the rest of the book which has a much more serious tone, Jenny and Isuoro are pretty good comic relief!

What's FEBA?

I love the Numerian landing scene, its a moment where you can feel like the good guys are winning a little bit, and that the Numies are getting what they deserve for once.  It also does a lot to show the inadequcies of Numerian military thought compared to the Terans, If the terrans had anywhere near the same tech level as the Numies I reckon the invasion of rigel would have ended with a hell of a lot more Numerians dead.  (If it had happened at all.)

Tian is also another pretty nice character, in this book, there are characters I dislike, but none that I think are badly written.

Can I ask how old the characters like Jenny and Eric are, they are all referenced as having been in the Denevan war, right?  They must be all in their 50s/60s?  Late 40s at the most.

I must ask, is Gaiven always as blood thirsty as he acts, or does he become more enlightened through Aerobhin's influence?

I note that the Terrans use White Phosphorous?  Is it no longer banned by then, or have The Terrans become so desperate that any rules like  that are out the window, if that is the intention the thought of white phosphorous, or any formerly banned weapons, though a small issue in the story at large, can be quite a powerful image.

The scene where the Terrans use anti-matter missiles to wipeout a load Numies is very well written.    I quite enjoyed the nasty surprise that the Terrans give 'em!

Also, what does SoCom stand for?

Thorgrimm Wrote:
FEBA is a military acronym and stands for Forward Edge of the Battle Area.

All Military Personnel and Colonists recieve a primitive version of an Anagathic, or a chemical that slows down the aging process, which adds about 30 years to a Human lifespan. Physically they are in their 20's, but in chronological years they are in their 50's.

Gaiven is a typical Numerian Military Order member. However, under the tutelage of Aerobhin he mellows out and gains in wisdom, AKA not such a pain in the backside.

According to the US Army field manual on the Rule of Land Warfare, "The use of weapons which employ fire, such as tracer ammunition, flamethrowers, napalm, and other incendiary agents, against targets requiring their use is not violative of international law. US Army Field Manual 27-10: Rule of Land Warfare. However, saying that, it was banned in the Gunnyverse around the 2400's.  ;D Until the Holy Roller War.

WMD's are now being used.  ;D

SOCOM is another military acronym, and it stands for Special Operations Command. AKA Force Recon, Special Boat Service, Green Berets, and the like.

Cheers, Thor

Coco Wrote:
Ah, I see.  But honest, there is some prohibition on their use, perhaps some countries have banned WP, but not others?  Or am I thinking of something else?

Thorgrimm Wrote:
You are correct. Some nations have banned them, and even the US has restrictions on their usage.

For example, you cannot use it in interrogations and infantry in the open. To bust bunkers and fortifications filled with troops is ok though.

WP is like minefields. Some nations have banned them, while others have not.

Cheers, Thor

Coco's Chapter 5 Review

Chapter 5

What I draw from this is that the Numerians, despite being massively more advanced, have a considerable disadvantage as far as doctrine goes.  The whole factionalism through the orders also seems to put them almost more ad odds with themselves than their enemies.  Do the Numerians have a history of civil war/coups?

Also, how long previously was the Denevan war? Because there seems to be a lot of people running around that must be nearly 60 :)

And the Zeus tanks were the thing that got me thinking about those questions abot refitting ground units that I asked a while back, they're like sci-fi fireflies.

The terran belief that they can drain enough Numerian manpower on Rigel made me think about what you said about them only facing police forces, does that mean that the Terrans are wrong when they think they can drain 'em?  Also, would a similar attack to that shown in the Damocles story be impossible for the Terrans to perform?  Speaking of which, another barely related question, in that story you mention that the Numerians and terrans are at the same tech level, does that mean the terrans are more advanced than in the book, or the Numerians are less?

The Romans come to terran aid, are there any other groups out there that do the same?  I can imagine that there are a lot of nations and races that wouldn't like a Numerian empire out there that could potentially wipe them out.

May I ask who the mysterious officer at the back of the room during Denisov's speech is?  I think I get that he isn't human, but aside from that, I'm not sure, is he Elohim or something?

Bit more timely this time I think.  :)

Thorgrimm Wrote:
1) in their past, when they were not fighting the Draugir, they tended to try and prove which order was best. Hence the intense rivalry between the Naff'Bei and Aero'Bei. However, Haegan can give you better info on this question.

2) The Denevan, or Kitty, War was 25 years previous. The Terrans also have a primitive type of anti-agapic, which prolongs human lifespans by 30 to 50 years, depending on the person.

3) Sure, this is why there are rules for refitting units.  :)

4) yep, they are wrong. However, we have to remember PoV. They do not know just how big the Commonwealth really is, and as such they base their assumptions on what they have experience with.

5) yes, it is impossible.

6) In that other story the Terrans were more successful in finding high technology in the Progenitor ruins they have found, and that makes them more advanced than in the book.

7) The only species willing to do so are the Halaorians. The Halaorians have linked their destiny to that of the Terrans, and as is said in the test of Wills book, To live or die the Halaorians will stand side by side with the Terrans. The reason for this is that the Terrans saved the Hallies from extinction, and gave them a new home from which they could once more thrive.

However, if it looks like the Numies are stumbling, or Numeria gets nuked, you can expect the rest of the minor races to dogpile on them. Even a Lion or bear can be taken down by a dog pack.

8 ) He is Walther Essex, the best friend of Gunnery Sergeant DeShane.

Thanks you for the excellent report bud!

Cheers, Thor

Haegan Wrote:
IIRC, we have a scene in which some Terran officers are discussing the numies. They mention how elementary the tactics used to be, and how they seem to be gradually improving. I think (my memory of the scene is a little blurry at the moment) that they mention what effort the Numerians are going through to clean out dead wood. They are not that far from being wrong.

One of the issues about the eons old war with the Draugir is that there has been little planetary combat between the 2 races. Or at least little sustained combat in recent memory. The Numerian Navy is positively leviathanic compared to its ground forces. Pin point orbital bombardment by both sides means not much survives to pose a threat to an invading force. There is no clash of armies, only a multitude of small unit actions. Something the Numerians and the Draugir are VERY good at. Army level interactions and the experience to run them? Well, its written down in the deep archives if anyone cares to go looking...

This is not to say that there is not a Numerian army that will not fight equivalently to the Terran forces. It simply has not been deployed to Rigel due to Order factionalism. The Sanei took the larger Orders at their word. Needless to say there will be some interesting questions asked during one of the books, even if only behind the scenes. The deployed orders loose a good deal of equipment and standing as a result of the fighting.
As for civil wars and Coups.... It happens, but not often. They have been, with remarkably few exceptions, bloodless. One of the morals of the Commonwealth is that citizens do not kill citizens. To willfully kill another who poses no threat to you is considered a kind of insanity that needs to be culled. Lets face it, the average politician simply is not a physical threat to most people. Psionics aside of course. They do permit challenges, but there are many levels of challenges. Almost all are non-violent like competitions be they personal or team oriented. However, the warrior guilds military personnel are permitted to give and receive violent challenges that may result in blood loss or even death at the highest level. A challenge to the death is generally frowned upon, but you may have noticed that offers to give another a severe and embarrassing drubbing seems to be bandied about a lot in the higher ranks.

A good summation of their psyche is to say "Killing each other is bad, blowing up others is not bad." One could almost say that it is a matter of preservation of assets....

The Numerian Commonwealth is fairly tightly woven together because it has a continuing outside threat to it that it has be fighting for eons. There are also the Elohim to consider and how they play into the development of the Numerian civilization. But that is its own lengthy post and will be dealt with later.

An important point to remember is that the Commonwealth has the POV that many old Terran civilizations have. They see themselves as the shining light of this galaxy. The one true way, etc. And all others are barbarians. The Atheri being a possible exception, but the population who give a damn are split about 50/50 on the birds.

Coco's Chapter 4 Review

Chapter 4:

The start of this chapter does a nice job again of hitting home just how desperate this war is for the Terrans, what with the dire lack of manpower and such.

A question that occurred to me, the Terrans seem to have colonies that are in a different area of space, I forget the name now, but they appear to be an exclave, on the other side of the Romans I believe?  Are these former Denevan worlds or something similar?

It also introduces yet another one of those characters, Ritterman is another cool character, not quite the same level as Denisov, but pretty fantastic nonetheless.

The chapter then of course introduces another character in the shape of Kirkland.  He is another pretty nice character.  Everybody loves a fighter ace, though the German is by far the better of the two.  I also have to admit that I personally really enjoy seeing description of military equipment, not sure why, I just like 'em.

There's chapter 4.  Its not particularly indepth, the chapter is nice, but its difficult to talk about.  I'll probably revisit it at some point eventually.

Thorgrimm Wrote:
In the Gunnyverse there are two types of Jump Gates. One type opens a portal into hyperspace for FTL movement, and this type is the most common type of gate. The second type, and extremely rare, is a gate that opens a wormhole directly to another fixed point in space, and travel through it is instantaneous.

The Terrans found one of these Progenitor Gates and it leads to the Scutum-Centaurus Quadrant of the Galaxy. The UST resides in the Orion Quadrant of the Galaxy. No, these are not Former Denevan systems, but systems the Romans sold to the Terrans and then our own expansion.

Master Gunnery Sergeant Eric Ritterman is first introduced in the Denevan war, and as such, is one of my reocurring characters for continuity.

The pilot Terrence Kirkland is my homage to the silk-scarf wearing WW1 fighter pilots from the movies of the 20's and 30's. He is also modeled on the outstanding British WW1 pilot Albert Ball. A very good pilot who died young.

Thanks for the report Coco. I look forward to your next one.

Cheers, Thor

Beyond the Stars! / Re: where do you get BTS???
« on: December 10, 2013, 10:03:58 PM »
Can I get in on this?!?!?

Sorry I took sop long to answer, not getting the emails.  :P

We do need playtesters, can you commit to a playtesting schedule and willing to sign an NDA?

Cheers, Thor

Beyond the Stars! / A Small Slice of Gunnyverse History
« on: December 03, 2013, 11:25:29 AM »
Back in the 1970's I heard a song by the group Paper Lace called the Night Chicago Died. Ever since then I have always wanted to write up a 'historical' piece that inspired the group to write that song. Up until a couple of years ago I never did anything with the idea.

About 10 years ago I began to write, and one of the things I wrote was that 'historical' piece. So now it is incorporated into the official Gunnyverse canon.

Below is that effort. Comments are welcome.  :)


From July 27 to August 2, 1932, a Major gang push to take and rule Chicago began in that hot July night. When it was over one hundred and eight police officers and 250 mobsters were dead, 537 injured and about 1000 rendered homeless. The incident which sparked the 'war' was the shooting of a Capone hitter after he had drifted into a neighborhood controlled by a rival gang, on a hot, 96 degree day. The reasons for the 'war', however, lie solely with the greed and ambition of one Alphonse Capone, a vicious gangster, who controlled and organized the activities of the southside gangs, many of which were sponsored by Chicago's political machine. Most of the killing, murder, and arson was concentrated on the east side where Capone had staked out his new turf.

The 'war' was characterized by plenty of action on the part of gangs of hoodlums, and the clashes developed from sudden and spontaneous assaults into organized raids against life and property.

As part of the background of the Chicago gang war, the activities of gangs of hoodlums should be cited. There had been friction for years, especially along the western boundary of the area in which the southside gangs had tried to establish control in the spring just preceding the gang war. They reached a climax on the night of June 21, 1932, five weeks before the war, when two east-side mobsters were murdered. Each was alone at the time and was the victim of an unprovoked and particularly brutal attack.

As the raids began, clashes between the gangs stepped up. Further to the west, as darkness came on, Capone's mobster's became more active. Eastside mobsters caught in Capone's districts suffered severely at their hands. From 9:00pm until 3:00am twenty-seven Eastside mobsters were beaten, seven were stabbed, and four were shot.

The mobsters went back their territory to work the next day without incident, but a street strike forced workers to walk, creating opportunities for mayhem. But as the afternoon wore on, Capone and his boys sought malicious amusement in directing civilian mob violence against any eastside mobster they could find

Eastside mobs began to retaliate against the Capone mobsters. As the violence increased, police fired into a crowd of meleeing mobsters, killing four. the mobsters became emboldened and began to kill the police as well as each other, finally Capone began taking the offensive in raids through territory that he wanted to 'conquer'. Capone even began to use the boys of his men between sixteen and twenty-two to help with the 'conquest.'

Then it escalated even further, the drive-by shootings began: Automobile raids were added to the warring on Monday night. Cars from which Tommy guns and revolver shots were fired were driven at great speed through sections inhabited by the eastsiders. The Capone raiders were never arrested and eastsiders began 'sniping' at the police in retaliation for not stopping the raids. Chicago's Police Chief admitted to the Commission afterwards:
"There is no doubt that a great many police officers were grossly unfair in making arrests. They shut their eyes to offenses committed by Capone's men while they were very vigorous in getting all the eastsiders they could get.". Twice as many eastsiders were arrested than Capone men.

The next day gang violence grew worse; A gang of Capone's soldiers, augmented by civilians, raid the 'Loop' or downtown section of Chicago, early Tuesday, killing two eastside mobsters and beating and robbing several others. Capone and his allied gangs began raiding down as far south as Sixty-third Street in Englewood and in the section west of Wentworth Avenue near Forty-seventh Street. Pre-meditated depredations were the order of the night. Many homes in the districts were attacked, and several of them were burned. Lasalle Street railroad station was invaded twice, with Capone's gangs hunting for eastside hitters.

Rain seemed to calm the raids for a few hours and fires in the stockyards left 948 people, mainly Lithuanians, homeless. While eastside gangs were blamed for the fires, the Grand Jury suspected they were started in back of the yards by Capone and his gangs for the purpose of inciting feelings of anger by blaming it on the eastside mobs, in whose territory the stockyards were. However, by then, the war began to escalate.

The police began to intervene in the raids and so Capone then turned his Tommy guns on the police. In a running battle that even had a police station sacked and destroyed, Capone began an effort to so weaken the police that he would be essentially king, for they would be too weak to interfere with his plans for Chicago.

What actually happened was a 18 hour Gun battle where the eastside gangs were forgotten in the combat between Capone and the police. When it was over the police had finally stormed Capone's fortified hideout in Cicero and he was in custody,with a body count of 108 Police Officers dead to his credit.

Capone and his gangs, along with their activities, were an important factor throughout the raids. If not for them it is doubtful if the raids would have gone beyond the first clash. Both organized gangs, and those that sprang into existence because of the opportunity afforded, seized upon the excuse of the first conflict to engage in lawless acts.

Many of Capone's gangs came from the westside in and around Cicero, and even the police said they could get little information from residents about the activities of their gangs. The report later made about the raids singles out two of the worst of Capone's allies "Canaryville bunch" and "Hamburgs" as particularly tough and involved in the raids. Richard J. Daley, later mayor of Chicago, was a member of the gang at the time and was its president in 1924. The Hamburgs were sponsored by Bridgeport Alderman Joseph McDonough. Daley always refused to comment on whether he was involved in the raiding.

The worst of the gangs were Capone's killer's, a gang whose turf extended from Cicero to Oak Lawn and from Roosevelt Road to one hundred and eleventh Street. The gang was sponsored by Cook County Commissioner Frank Ragen. Gang members boasted that they were 'protected' and 'tipped off' by police. The Killers even broke into a police station at 47th and Halstead where they killed 12 Police Officers and stole evidence, along with some firearms.

Capone's Killers and other gangs were targeted by the Grand Jury, whose report stated:
"The authorities employed to enforce the law should thoroughly investigate clubs and other organizations posing as athletic and social clubs which really are organizations of hoodlums and criminals formed for the purpose of furthering the interest of local politics. These gangs have apparently taken an active part in the raiding, and no arrests of their members have been made as far as this jury is aware."

Other Gangs:

The Commission found that the gangs were mainly made up of boys 17-22 year old, and that many murders were committed by hitters as young as 14. Members of The Lorraine gang also terrorized residents and drove them out of areas around Wentworth and 47th. Our Flags gang, a gang located on 47th near Union participated in the raids, as did the Sparklers, were responsible for a fire on 5919 Wentworth which burned down a house. The Aylward gang also beat to death eastside mobsters in the Stockyards as a handy dumping grounds. Other gangs who participated in the raids included the Pine Club, Hamburgers, the Emeralds, the White Club, Favis Grays', and the Mayflower.

The 18 hour gun battle was later immortalized as a song by Paper Lace Called The Night Chicago Died

Cheers, Thor

Beyond the Stars! / Re: where do you get BTS???
« on: September 17, 2013, 05:38:39 PM »
I read it and agree to it, but do I need to send you anything?

Yes, you have to fill it out and then send me a copy to add to my files.  :)

Cheers, Thor

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