Cold War Comments Thread

[misanthropope]

so you've got a powerful neighbor, with whom you share a time-tested military treaty aimed specifically at your current enemy, and activating it is the last thing in the world you want to do, pretty good feeling i bet.  and just how worried do you think the soviets are that there is diplomacy going on between the dbringi and coalition? 

soviets have another military alliance to activate, right?  like a mercenary deal?  have you ever said, kurt, how much force they can draw upon through that treaty?

[Kurt (OP)]

Before that though, they’re going to notice when the Russians go to serial production of all the light ships they lost that were the escorts for their battlecruisers. This will probably trigger some amount of panic when it looks like Russia is wildly escalating the size of its navy.

Yes, Russia is going to have the problem that everything they do to deal with the expanded threat will look very threatening to the Coalition.  Plus, once the Coalition finds out about the expanded war, they are going to be very concerned about their own position.  After all, while they have a non-interference treaty with the D'Bringi, they don't have any kind of relations with the Rehorish.  If the D'Bringi-Rehorish alliance manages to advance into Soviet space and penetrate to the system adjacent to the Solar system, the Coalition is going to have some very difficult situations to deal with. 

Kurt

[Kurt (OP)]

so you've got a powerful neighbor, with whom you share a time-tested military treaty aimed specifically at your current enemy, and activating it is the last thing in the world you want to do, pretty good feeling i bet.  and just how worried do you think the soviets are that there is diplomacy going on between the dbringi and coalition? 

soviets have another military alliance to activate, right?  like a mercenary deal?  have you ever said, kurt, how much force they can draw upon through that treaty?

The Soviets have a trade and military alliance with the Bjering, and while they don't know the exact size of the Bjering navy, they do know that they have battlecruisers and have superior tech. They also know the approximate size of the Bjering economy, based on the trade agreement, and it is around half of their own, which gives them some idea of the size of their fleet.  Of course, the Soviets also had a trade and military treaty with the Rehorish, and that didn't work out so well for them.  They are in trouble now, though, so they don't have much choice, and the Bjering have always been fair with them.  Both the Bjering and the USSR have military-based governments, and have gotten along well so far.  They have a 'rapport' with each other, that the USSR did not have with the Rehorish, who always seemed somewhat standoffish. 

Kurt

[Paul M]

Well the sovietski's are rather looped...looking at the map and assuming the R's manage to stop most of the Red Banner's CDs (which they have a reasonable chance of doing) this leaves the CD from the colony and the lone scout ship to get the message to the politburo...unfortunately after that things go very bleak.

Based on the map if the Sovietski's can keep the location of the closed WPs to Novosibrisk and Tomsk from the R's then they loose just most of their empire if the R's get Astorgation data from the colony and learn of the location of the WP to Kirov the the sovietskies loose most of their gains and are limited to counterattacking from Smolensk.  The R's get to Tomsk eventually anyway via Ivanovo and Novograd...

The surge in construction plus the lack of shipments in supplies for the fleet are going to tip off the RCs that something is up.   Also the sovietski's lack an assault ship outside of their CLs...any offensive could be problematic.  The good news is that if the closed warp point in Kirov is not revealed to the R's allows them to attack/raid and basically fight deep space battles where the BCs Rc can be used to full effect...   Another problem may well be crew grade plus they lost one of their two average admirals....so the rest will be green.  The fact the R's were basically locked away by the soviet control of Novosibirsk well...a diplomatic issue they never tried to deal with...where as apparently the D'bringi had a better offer.

The sovietski's exploration fleet will also be forced to surrender...given it is unarmed EXs...the sovietski's may learn from this that is a VERY bad idea.

It is a bad time to be human...   

[Kurt (OP)]

Well the sovietski's are rather looped...looking at the map and assuming the R's manage to stop most of the Red Banner's CDs (which they have a reasonable chance of doing) this leaves the CD from the colony and the lone scout ship to get the message to the politburo...unfortunately after that things go very bleak.

Based on the map if the Sovietski's can keep the location of the closed WPs to Novosibrisk and Tomsk from the R's then they loose just most of their empire if the R's get Astorgation data from the colony and learn of the location of the WP to Kirov the the sovietskies loose most of their gains and are limited to counterattacking from Smolensk.  The R's get to Tomsk eventually anyway via Ivanovo and Novograd...

The surge in construction plus the lack of shipments in supplies for the fleet are going to tip off the RCs that something is up.   Also the sovietski's lack an assault ship outside of their CLs...any offensive could be problematic.  The good news is that if the closed warp point in Kirov is not revealed to the R's allows them to attack/raid and basically fight deep space battles where the BCs Rc can be used to full effect...   Another problem may well be crew grade plus they lost one of their two average admirals....so the rest will be green.  The fact the R's were basically locked away by the soviet control of Novosibirsk well...a diplomatic issue they never tried to deal with...where as apparently the D'bringi had a better offer.

The sovietski's exploration fleet will also be forced to surrender...given it is unarmed EXs...the sovietski's may learn from this that is a VERY bad idea.

It is a bad time to be human...

If the Rehorish had the warp links for Soviet space, they could reach the Solar System pretty quickly.  Unfortunately for them they don't.  They may be able to get something from the ships they captured, or from the Titov colony, but maybe not. 

I wonder what the D'Bringi are up to...

[Paul M]

ooh ohh....a worse day to be human seems to have arrived...good one Kurt!  ouch!...ouch!!....ouch!!! 

[Kurt (OP)]

ooh ohh....a worse day to be human seems to have arrived...good one Kurt!  ouch!...ouch!!....ouch!!!

The Soviets seem to have a problem!

Kurt

[Gyrfalcon]

I can't help but feel like this attack is being orchestrated above the level of the D'Brengi. They've alluded to being uplifted by a patron species, and at least in their original attacks on the humans and the race they conquered, they fight normally in small forces with a focus on raiding and plunder, not large scale fleet actions and deep space ambushes.

[Paul M]

well...well...well...if the D'bringi stay on that side of the warp point then the RC will not have a diplomatic issue...and the sovietski's will have supply issues...oh boy...if they have mines even getting out of the system may be tricky.

I hope the sovietski's have someone watching the Kirov warp point while they go on their scout...as it may take a few turns for the Rheanish to get the astrogation data (if any) from the colony.

Still...oh boy...the Sovietski's are getting hit hard.  Outside of nuclear winter...the RC could take them out easy now...of course the Rheanish likely can't tell apart or don't care what "type" of human they see.  But the angry crabs are considerably less of a threat to the RC then the Rheanish right now...though with enough distraction they may be able to secure their home system free form alien interference.

One thing is the Sovietski's allies ships are oddly set up...looks to be 2BC+1 DD, 1 DD+2 CT data groups or 2 BC+ 1 CT, 3 DD and 3 CT data groups.  Largest of each speed group I'm guessing...but still the CTs aren't likely to be terribly combat relevant.

[Kurt (OP)]

well...well...well...if the D'bringi stay on that side of the warp point then the RC will not have a diplomatic issue...and the sovietski's will have supply issues...oh boy...if they have mines even getting out of the system may be tricky.

I hope the sovietski's have someone watching the Kirov warp point while they go on their scout...as it may take a few turns for the Rheanish to get the astrogation data (if any) from the colony.

Still...oh boy...the Sovietski's are getting hit hard.  Outside of nuclear winter...the RC could take them out easy now...of course the Rheanish likely can't tell apart or don't care what "type" of human they see.  But the angry crabs are considerably less of a threat to the RC then the Rheanish right now...though with enough distraction they may be able to secure their home system free form alien interference.

One thing is the Sovietski's allies ships are oddly set up...looks to be 2BC+1 DD, 1 DD+2 CT data groups or 2 BC+ 1 CT, 3 DD and 3 CT data groups.  Largest of each speed group I'm guessing...but still the CTs aren't likely to be terribly combat relevant.

Yeah, the Bjering (Soviet Allies) do not have an optimal fleet setup right now.  The Bjering are a Military Anarchy, which is a somewhat difficult government type to play.  I determined during setup that they had five "admirals" or warlords, which gave each warlord 2 BC's, 3 DD's, and 4 CT's.  They want to fill out their fleets, with at least another BC each, but their economy has been struggling to colonize new planets and increase their tech, even without enlarging the fleet. 

Kurt

[Paul M]

The "Drakes" are much the same...they have the "High Council Fleet" plus "Blue", "Red", "Gold" and "Bronze" fleets the last 4 are under the control of a different warlord.  Each fleet is maintained to be equally strong as the others and they all lack any weapons that could threaten the home world.  Basically they have Shanirian administrators due to the fact that means their economy actually gets looked after as the previous way resulted in significant deaths in duels between bureaucrats.  I figured it was the case in your game as well.

[Gyrfalcon]

So if the Alliance brought its fleet into low Earth orbit, could they neuter the launches from the Soviet PDFs and launch a ground invasion? Or does Starfire also have the TN sub 5-second from launch to impact issue to navigate?

[Paul M]

Planetary Point Defense can intercept sprint missiles and all missiles fired at the location they are in...so depends a lot on how many D are available if charging the forts may work...basically the ships firing on the PDCs would need to hit them fast and hard to destroy their launch capability.  Only Primaries as beam weapons work through an atmosphere...so if the RC had a lot of primary armed ships they could...shoot at the PDCs but I'd assume they would be destroyed by missile fire before any significant damage was done.  There are rules that allow precision fire but they require a tractor lock and that is not possible....otherwise they could attack the magazines.

Turns in starfire are 30s long for ship-ship tactical combat, ground combat is on the interception scale so 60 tactical turns would occur while the troops were landing.  The only thing is that the Sovietski's likely would fire conventional warhead armed missiles at the ground troops...but the exchange between the PDCs on either side would likely render the invasion moot.  The collateral damage to both populations would be very high.

The real issue is the civilian death toll of such an attack...  However, the RC likely could invade the Russian space infrastructure and seize their SS...but they would have to gamble the sovietski's would then not launch on them...   However, depending on the capabilities of the RC fleet the death toll from an attack on the sovietski PDCs may be "acceptable" if balanced against the cost of a war against 2 alien species...  This is a tough call for the RC...their chance is now but it isn't without cost.

[Paul M]

oh wow a horrid week to be a sovietski...

one thing...CDs are engaged by minefields see 27.08.05.8.   As are pinnaces.  Just to say sanitising a system of DSB-Xr is possible but very slow it takes days to survey for the damn things since you pick them up only at 10 hexs.  As the RM I was looking into this...and it is just plain slow.

[Kurt (OP)]

oh wow a horrid week to be a sovietski...

one thing...CDs are engaged by minefields see 27.08.05.8.   As are pinnaces.  Just to say sanitising a system of DSB-Xr is possible but very slow it takes days to survey for the damn things since you pick them up only at 10 hexs.  As the RM I was looking into this...and it is just plain slow.

Ah...I missed that about the minefields and CD's.  Oh well, the universe intervened to ensure that the CD's got back home.

I have to say, it doesn't get better for the Sov's in the next weeks.  Or months.  Possibly years.  We'll see.