National Updates Comment Thread

[MarcAFK]

I think the CAN-UK-AUS tripartite alliance works because we (Canada) get the cold parts, you (Australia) get the hot parts, and they (U.K.) get the wet bits in the middle.  A lovely, mutually-beneficial non-competitive arrangement.

Which I too would like to see lead to more tech transfers and sharing. We'll provide the steak, you provide the shrimp, and they can provide the barbie.

Im sorry but Americans call them shrimp, we know sea roaches as prawns.

[Sematary]

Im sorry but Americans call them shrimp, we know sea roaches as prawns.

Prawns and shrimp are different things.

[MarcAFK]

Prawns and shrimp are different things.

Yes, but nobody would throw a half inch long critter onto a barbie, when paul hogan throws a massive banana prawn onto the grill and calls it a shrimp I shudder. Though watching the ad I realise it was meant as a joke, "Look at our massive shrimp!".
Sometimes I wonder what a grilled race251.bmp would taste like.

[Iranon]

He isn't wrong though.
Neither term is rigidly defined in a biological sense, and in the most logical use shrimp are just crustaceans that don't like to walk (unlike crabs and lobsters).
Prawn for large shrimp is a pretty superfluous term.

[mrwigggles]

I dont think its quite hard at all for the Edbens to remain a secret to the US at large and other powers. If we grant that their renaissance era is 1:1 to Earth... then most of that planet isn't traveled by most of its natives or mapped by its natives and there large patches of planet that are still hunters and gathers.

On Earth during the renaissance era, there would have been tons of places to place a colony that would be  isolated from the natives, to the point where it would take them days or week to reach but mere minuets for the Americans to transverse with aircraft. And this means if the colonist explored around their city, on foot or motorized, they'd be unlikely to reach a village as well.

As for everyone else in orbit, the civilization on the planet would be very hard to tell they exist. First of all, if they happen to just look down at the planet, most of the planet would be empty of native life, so its unlikely that they can just randomly find them. Doubly so, if the station in orbit, was over a region that was devoid of life. The other two big things that be easier to tell from orbit aren't happening on the planet yet. They aren't emitting any EM radiation. And when the planet is dark, their urban centers aren't lit up.

Now if some third party group, were to do a detail examination of the planet, without landing on it, they could tell that renaissance era cities were a thing, with extra amount of sulfur and other burning fuel waste would leave in the atmosphere.

[alex_brunius]

I dont think its quite hard at all for the Edbens to remain a secret to the US at large and other powers.

...

On Earth during the renaissance era, there would have been tons of places to place a colony that would be  isolated from the natives, to the point where it would take them days or week to reach but mere minuets for the Americans to transverse with aircraft. And this means if the colonist explored around their city, on foot or motorized, they'd be unlikely to reach a village as well.

If you read the updates it's clearly stated that there is regular contact between the US colony and the Eben.

"Relations with the Eben are generally good, although they seem disconcerted at the size of the US colony, which has reached 370,000; small in human terms but very large by the standard of Eben cities."
"An Eben delegation has contacted the leaders of the US enclave and asked why oxygen is being added to their atmosphere."


It's even likely the US colony is located near an Eben settlement since as previously pointed out oxygen based life are still likely to value the same land ( access to water and food ).

The other two big things that be easier to tell from orbit aren't happening on the planet yet. They aren't emitting any EM radiation. And when the planet is dark, their urban centers aren't lit up.

Why worry about what you can tell from orbit when there are over 300 thousand US citizens on the ground that for sure is aware of their existence. Especially in isolated fringe parts like this gossip is king and you can count on the most part civilians knowing about the fact that Eben delegations have visited their colony and the fact that the planet is being terraformed.

Military stationed there ( and thus also their families ) must know about it for sure since it doesn't make sense they don't know what their mission is.

[swarm_sadist]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_city#United_States

There is precedents. Having a solar system on lockdown, with traffic monitored in and out of wormholes would make it even easier to keep a lid on things.

[Hydrofoil]

Would just like to point out that whilst im loving the series at large i do feel your sort of playing the UK a little bit wrong. Whilst im sure that if given the chance the UK would invest heavily in a colony on another world and do everything in its power to develop it. I do however feel that the British Isles and other holdings on earth would be so readily abandoned and so quickly. I realise this is probably due to the large civillian sector doing alot of the leg work. However Politics and culture in britian is steeped in alot of pride and heritage we take our history very seriously (The Good and the Bad bits). I feel like this would play a big factor in keeping britain quite rooted to Earth in terms of many industries especially the financial sector, As a bit of advise whilst moving off world id start building financial centres on Earth There is no way Westminster would ever allow its Earth Holdings to become obselete and not needed.

[Sematary]

You are aware that Steve is English, yes?

[mrwigggles]

If you read the updates it's clearly stated that there is regular contact between the US colony and the Eben.

"Relations with the Eben are generally good, although they seem disconcerted at the size of the US colony, which has reached 370,000; small in human terms but very large by the standard of Eben cities."
"An Eben delegation has contacted the leaders of the US enclave and asked why oxygen is being added to their atmosphere."


It's even likely the US colony is located near an Eben settlement since as previously pointed out oxygen based life are still likely to value the same land ( access to water and food ).

Why worry about what you can tell from orbit when there are over 300 thousand US citizens on the ground that for sure is aware of their existence. Especially in isolated fringe parts like this gossip is king and you can count on the most part civilians knowing about the fact that Eben delegations have visited their colony and the fact that the planet is being terraformed.

Military stationed there ( and thus also their families ) must know about it for sure since it doesn't make sense they don't know what their mission is.

No it doesn't. They dont need to be geographically close to remain in contact. The Americans have telecommunication. Have a radio, call us whenever. And the US can just invite some delegates over to their city. It seems for now, the US is trying to have an amicable relationship. The colonist dont need to be made aware, and the troops stationed there, dont have to know why they're there. The only folks that need to know, is the administrator for the colony and the admin for the military, which is a very small group. Are there rumors sure? But there probably rumors like that on every colony.

And most military folks don't get their families moved with them. The commanders of the base probably d, but thats probably because its a long term post, and fr the rest of the infantry, they'll be sent home in a given rotation. But even if every infantry person had their family, there no reason for them to all be fully informed. Compartmentalization is a thing.

[Bremen]

No it doesn't. They dont need to be geographically close to remain in contact. The Americans have telecommunication. Have a radio, call us whenever. And the US can just invite some delegates over to their city. It seems for now, the US is trying to have an amicable relationship.

I have to wonder at your definition of "amicable relationship."

Other than that, eh, I don't think this debate is going anywhere.

[xeryon]

I keep having the scene from 'Men In Black' running through my head.  The one where Kay refers to getting the latest news from the hot sheets and walks over to the newsstand and picks up a pair of supermarket tabloids.

Without arguing specific facts or features of galactic communication and colonization I rationalize it as thus:  Human exploration of space has surveyed well over 100 systems and only found life in one system (that anyone at all knows about). This absence of life would give the average human a false sense of being alone in the universe.  Because there are always people that talk or spread rumors no matter how tightly controlled the information is it will leak out to the public in a short time.  In the absence of hard evidence if the general public sentiment is that there are no aliens then the people creating the rumors would be regarded as quacks and dismissed.  Their stories will be published in the National Enquirer next to the story about the 50 lbs baby and the latest celebrity couple to break up. 

Until hard evidence surfaces (which would be much harder to come by) and/or an authority claims life has been found (a government, scientific journal, etc) the general public won't accept it as real.  Even in the face of substantial hard evidence there are non-believers.  There is still a not-small number of people that think the US moon landings were faked.

[Bremen]

I keep having the scene from 'Men In Black' running through my head.  The one where Kay refers to getting the latest news from the hot sheets and walks over to the newsstand and picks up a pair of supermarket tabloids.

Without arguing specific facts or features of galactic communication and colonization I rationalize it as thus:  Human exploration of space has surveyed well over 100 systems and only found life in one system (that anyone at all knows about). This absence of life would give the average human a false sense of being alone in the universe.  Because there are always people that talk or spread rumors no matter how tightly controlled the information is it will leak out to the public in a short time.  In the absence of hard evidence if the general public sentiment is that there are no aliens then the people creating the rumors would be regarded as quacks and dismissed.  Their stories will be published in the National Enquirer next to the story about the 50 lbs baby and the latest celebrity couple to break up. 

Until hard evidence surfaces (which would be much harder to come by) and/or an authority claims life has been found (a government, scientific journal, etc) the general public won't accept it as real.  Even in the face of substantial hard evidence there are non-believers.  There is still a not-small number of people that think the US moon landings were faked.

I never thought about it that way, but it would be hilarious. Maybe there's a fringe lunacy group claiming the US is hiding evidence of extraterrestrial life, whose houses are full of bulletin boards with red string linking news articles, shipping manifests, and scientists in exotic fields like xenobiology suddenly going on "vacation". Occasionally a spacer gets drunk and claims to have really caught sight of an alien walking into a building on a minor US colony world, but everyone just dismisses them as one of the crazies, including the foreign powers 

[mrwigggles]

I have to wonder at your definition of "amicable relationship."

Other than that, eh, I don't think this debate is going anywhere.

Having a spirit of friendliness in their relationship. The US doesnt need have a native population there.

[Yonder]

Having a spirit of friendliness in their relationship. The US doesnt need have a native population there.

Given the fact that the US is changing the atmospheric makeup of their only world with no apparent regard for the health of the native population I think it's safe to say that the US realizes that they don't need to have a native population there, which is probably why Bremen doesn't find the term "amicable" appropriate.