Author Topic: Top Tech Tips for newbies?  (Read 3849 times)

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Offline Zook (OP)

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 04:28:22 PM »
OK, it seems we need to split this into two areas: economic and military techs. Then the player has to decide for himself how much he wants to invest in security.

Top Economic Techs:
* Higher construction rate ++
* Higher research rate +++
* Higher mining rate ++
* Small jump gate (the big ones require huge ships your shipyards probably couldn't handle)
* Improved Command and Control (to build a Sector Command HQ)

Top Military Techs:
* Missile reload rate (most important defense tech)
* Missile Engines, whenever you develop a new engine tech
* EM Sensitivity + Active Sensor strength (affect your Active Search Sensor range)

Top All-round Techs:
* Power plants, to get better engine tech +++++ An absolute must
* Don't ignore Engine Power +5/10/15% (faster engines, when fuel economy doesn't matter that much)
* Fuel efficiency (also gives longer missile range)
* One or two Armor tech levels (also make your ships lighter and thereby faster)

Techs you can safely ignore until mid-game:
* Cloaking
* Shields
* Most non-missile weapons (gauss guns for missile CIWS, some players also recommend carronades and railguns)
* Biology Techs & Terraforming rate & Colonization Cost Reduction (too expensive in the beginning)
* Laser size reduction, improved cargo handling, damage control, laser warheads, radiation warheads (of dubious value, according to some)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 04:34:36 PM »
OK, it seems we need to split this into two areas: economic and military techs. Then the player has to decide for himself how much he wants to invest in security.

Top Economic Techs:
* Higher construction rate ++
* Higher research rate +++
* Higher mining rate ++
* Small jump gate (the big ones require huge ships your shipyards probably couldn't handle)
* Improved Command and Control (to build a Sector Command HQ)

Top Military Techs:
* Missile reload rate (most important defense tech)
* Missile Engines, whenever you develop a new engine tech
* EM Sensitivity + Active Sensor strength (affect your Active Search Sensor range)

Top All-round Techs:
* Power plants, to get better engine tech +++++ An absolute must
* Don't ignore Engine Power +5/10/15% (faster engines, when fuel economy doesn't matter that much)
* Fuel efficiency (also gives longer missile range)
* One or two Armor tech levels (also make your ships lighter and thereby faster)

Techs you can safely ignore until mid-game:
* Cloaking
* Shields
* Most non-missile weapons (gauss guns for missile CIWS, some players also recommend carronades and railguns)
* Biology Techs & Terraforming rate & Colonization Cost Reduction (too expensive in the beginning)
* Laser size reduction, improved cargo handling, damage control, laser warheads, radiation warheads (of dubious value, according to some)

Personally, I'd have improved cargo handling on the list of top economic techs. The faster you can turn around the ships, the faster your minerals/colonists get to where they need to be.

Offline Zook (OP)

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 04:59:22 PM »
Personally, I'd have improved cargo handling on the list of top economic techs. The faster you can turn around the ships, the faster your minerals/colonists get to where they need to be.

Some things are a matter of playing style, I suppose. And the normal Cargo handling thingies are quite cheap, IIRC. I've tried to post a list of things where there seems to be a consensus (at least I've removed it from the list of useless things :).

Thanks everybody, I've posted this to the wiki. I hope it'll help some newcomers.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2012, 09:26:05 PM »
the problem with improved cargo handling is that it is not an advantage for cost.

the units cost a lot and you get pretty much the same bang for the buck from just piling on more regular cargo handling units.  Cargo handlers are a tiny portion of the tonnage on any ship where it matters so the speed penaltY is negligible.

TBh there should probably be a 1 cargo handler per cargobay/cryo/troopbay rule.  Or higher tonnage on cargo handlers.  

in any case, the limit on your economy is rarely lift capacity; usually it's # of mines or wealth or somesuch.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 09:28:55 PM by TheDeadlyShoe »
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 03:01:32 AM »
Actually Improved Cargo Handling is useful. Reduces the load/unload times for your freighters, cargo ships and troop transports. Damage control is also very useful for in-combat repairs, or repairs post-battle to get to a repair base. Laser size reduction, I'd only use this on fighters or maybe a PD design. Laser warheads are broke if I recall, and I've never built an increased rad warhead.
Personally, I'd have improved cargo handling on the list of top economic techs. The faster you can turn around the ships, the faster your minerals/colonists get to where they need to be.

Well, when you compare Improved Cargo Handling to the Standard Variant you can see that it is twice as “strong” (i.e. each unit adds 10 “cargo handling” instead of 5 IIRC). However, at the same time it is 2.5 (IIRC) times more expensive in build points. So actually it is a bit cheaper to simply double the number of handling systems, rather than using more advanced versions. The only drawback is that this adds a bit more weight to the ship. Yet cargo handling systems only have a rather small mass in the first place and they are likely to be found on rather massive ships. So in the end I find the standard variant to be superior. But even if you don’t, there is at best a very small edge between 1 improved and 2 standard systems, hardly worth for a beginner to place on a high priority, if squeezed for research points. EDIT: Darn, TheDeadlyShoe beat me to it, sorry I have just missed that. /EDIT

Post-battle repairs can usually be done just as well by engineering modules. True, it might take half a day instead of an hour, but in most post-battle situations that is not really much of a concern. That might change with the new upcoming overcrowding rules, as then you might actually have an incentive for leaving more quickly. But for now the marginal benefit hardly warrants the investment. In-battle repairs are another story. It does matter tremendously how quickly repairs get down. However, even damage control is unlikely to push that time down to the point where it becomes truly useful (as in has an impact on the battle). So you need multiple damage control modules. And therein lies the crux, because ships cannot share their damage control rating, they are limited to a per-ship basis. Which again means damage control is something reserved for large ships. And in turn, large ships are something more likely to be seen in later game, when shipyards and maintenance facilities are available. So firstly its advisable to not make this a priority project, and secondly, while an interesting aspect of the game, it can also be ignored completely without much negative impact. Certainly, for a new player who is struggling to get his priority rights it is something to skip first.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 03:03:56 AM by Theokrat »
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 07:50:18 AM »
Post-battle repairs can usually be done just as well by engineering modules. True, it might take half a day instead of an hour, but in most post-battle situations that is not really much of a concern. That might change with the new upcoming overcrowding rules, as then you might actually have an incentive for leaving more quickly. But for now the marginal benefit hardly warrants the investment. In-battle repairs are another story. It does matter tremendously how quickly repairs get down. However, even damage control is unlikely to push that time down to the point where it becomes truly useful (as in has an impact on the battle). So you need multiple damage control modules. And therein lies the crux, because ships cannot share their damage control rating, they are limited to a per-ship basis. Which again means damage control is something reserved for large ships. And in turn, large ships are something more likely to be seen in later game, when shipyards and maintenance facilities are available. So firstly its advisable to not make this a priority project, and secondly, while an interesting aspect of the game, it can also be ignored completely without much negative impact. Certainly, for a new player who is struggling to get his priority rights it is something to skip first.



Usually when I get a ship that has been "mission killed" but still mobile, I send it towards the entry JP and perform damage control on it. I've had such ships recover enough capability that I've had them turn around and rejoin the fight before.

Offline Zook (OP)

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 11:29:17 AM »
But would the extra weight not better be invested in a few extra armor plates, at least on a ship with less than 10,000 tons?

While we're at it, what happens when the bridge or life support components are down? I haven't seen any disadvantages on damaged ships so far.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 12:55:04 PM »
But would the extra weight not better be invested in a few extra armor plates, at least on a ship with less than 10,000 tons?

While we're at it, what happens when the bridge or life support components are down? I haven't seen any disadvantages on damaged ships so far.

Armor plates just prolong the inevitable. DCC can repair things. I usually stick 1 or 2 DCC on cruiser class ships (7500+ tons), and more on larger ones.

I believe that bridge gone increases the time to respond to orders.

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 01:53:41 PM »
I like DCC as well on any 7k or larger ship, though if I end up hurting for space I'll toss it.

I never bother with cargo handling higher than the initial tech, for the reasons previously mentioned as well as the fact that at my major colonies I can use spaceports to reduce loading times. I've never been in a situation where I had to have troops dropped off faster, and if I expected to get there I would probably use Combat Drop Modules anyway.

My personal tech priority is Engines, followed by sensors of various types, I find the second level of the survey sensors makes my survey vessels rather a lot faster to operate.

For the production techs I tend to prefer mining over construction rate since any mature colony is likely to have enough construction facilities to build stuff quickly enough anyway, plus I tend to find good Administrators with Construction bonuses. I don't neglect the tech tree entirely, but it is ties for the bottom priority with Shipbuilding. I rate Shipbuilding low as again there are other ways to reduce time, Administrators and prebuilding components come to mind.

For weapons, missiles are king, on a default start I like to learn the 8k level missile techs right away, as well as Box Launchers.

Non-missile weapons come down to Meson Cannons or Railguns usually, with Lasers coming in close behind, I tend to go Energy rather than Railgun as my Kinetic Weapons scientist is usually busy with missile stuff. Lasers have a great range and damage profile, but Mesons ignore armor, and since I usually put them on cheap, small units like FACs, survivability is secondary and they have the speed to get in range anyway.

Depending on your playstyle the Logistics techs can be your best friend. Want to play with Fighters or effective FAC? You need the miniaturization techs from here, period. If you are planning to take anything over via ground assault you need to invest heavily in here as well, and even the most anti ground unit player is going to want at least Engineers and Troop Transports for excavating ruins.

For defense, a few levels of armor is the usual priority as the benefits really pay off in weight savings. Nothing else here is needed though. Bu for midgame I like to put a few layers of shields on all my combatants, even light ones can save a fair bit of repairs simply by preventing the odd leaker that gets through your missile defense.

I tend to ignore ECM/ECCM. While ECM is useful I usually find it to be too big of an investment to care about initially, and later on I can usually make up for it by simply engineering missiles and sensors for longer range than my enemy. ECCM is even easier to avoid, as you can beat enemy ECM by over-engineering your Fire Controls.

I never research the biology techs, finding it more useful to Terraform a world if it doesn't meet my colonization needs. Researching multiple levels of temperature tolerance and so on, then a new species, then building GMCs, then waiting till the numbers are there, then dealing with multiple species seems more trouble than it is worth.

I do like Terraforming tech, the module and tech up to 0.002 are the only investment I really need for it though.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Top Tech Tips for newbies?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 02:23:23 PM »
Quote
But would the extra weight not better be invested in a few extra armor plates, at least on a ship with less than 10,000 tons?

Depends on if you're being shot up by meson cannons or not :)