Author Topic: Towing "Modules"?  (Read 2818 times)

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Offline Girlinhat (OP)

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Towing "Modules"?
« on: October 08, 2011, 10:19:46 PM »
This is mostly to get a general idea, but I have a specific question.   If a ship has a tractor beam, and tows onto a ship, is the towed ship's engines used?  IE: Can a starbase have a tractor beam, latch onto a tug, and the tug can pull?  I know that a tractor beam can pull an engineless craft, but does it work in reverse?

Now, as for discussion, I'm thinking about a sort of "modular race" where the race's ships are primarily engine platforms with a tractor beam.   Using this, the ships will attach mission module and go into battle.   Because of this, the race's "ships" could refit frequently to improve engines, but the mission module could be left behind.   So, if I upgraded to ion engines, but hadn't upgraded any missile components, then my missile ship could simply decouple and upgrade the engines, then re-grab the missiles and go into battle.   This would apply to most everything, and I imagine most designs would look like a "yolk" module that fits over the engine section like a horseshoe, or something.

Some of the more appealing options to me involve detaching the pieces.   If needed, an engine chassis could be given a large magazine to supply its attached missile launcher, and if need dictated could detach the missile section and run for it (even though I know the missiles are the more expensive part, I guess part of that is RP value).   This runs the risk of war become a game of shuffleboard, with tug ships pushing around stationary pieces, but that could be fun too!

Again, the biggest appeal seems to be separate items for refit, as engines and weapons could be upgraded separately, and therefore cheaper and faster, as well as spreading the load over multiple smaller shipyards.   Which is another appeal.   If you can't afford to build size 20k yards, you could probably get 10k yards more quickly and produce the engine and weapon part, and hopefully put a ship in the air at half the time and lower tonnage.   It'd also help with sensor signal, if I understand it right, as 2 100 HS ships are harder to detect that 1 200 HS.   Jump drives would also become easier, at least on a tonnage rating.   It would take twice the squadron jump size, but half the engine size, so smaller, cheaper engines can be used instead of hulking capital ships.   After all, fitting a 100 HS ship through a jump is much cheaper than a 200.   Retreats would also have some tenacity to them.   If you know you're going to lose, you can eject the heavy war component and let your engines race away.   You're losing your weapons, but if you're losing anyways at least you can save half the ship, right?  Additionally, any unused weapon sections could be left idling around a planet and provide some amount of defense.

The disadvantages are there too, though.   It would take twice the shipyards, though generally easier to modularize the shipyards.   One for engines and three for AMM, ASM, and Sensors.   4 shipyards for 3 ship types, but you could retool any of them if an upgrade was needed.   Tractors also have a 1 ship limit, so it would be impossible to grab an AMM and Hangar module for dual effect, which reduces the idea to more of a "half ship" rather than "build your own from parts" of a sort.   CIWS would be iffy, because they would protect the engine OR the mission section, but chances are that if you're using CIWS then one of these is disposable while the other is going to need the protection.   I could also imagine it being a designing nightmare to get the different blueprints straight, but once you get a system down it should be relatively easy to pick a few parts out of the lot and throw them into battle.

So, thoughts?  And don't forget the towing engines question, it probably got lost amongst my ramblings :P
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 12:13:12 AM »
 

Offline Din182

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 12:41:12 AM »
Dude, I was just thinking the same thing! But I was put off by the fact that you can't have the "build a ship from parts". Maybe I'll try it next game.
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Offline Girlinhat (OP)

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 12:58:28 AM »
Interesting, that thread.   I'm particularly intrigued by the dropable magazines, as these could incur a fantastically small visible signature if made right, and act as relatively safe ammo points that could be dropped on the outskirts of contested systems.

But my main idea is to make a functional battle component and a functional engine component, allowing for a relatively fast mix and match of firepower that can be recovered and equipped almost instantly.   Easy enough to exchange different parts, or attach one to a civilian ship if you think it needs just a little firepower.   Mainly though, I'm looking at the individual size reduction.   Smaller shipyards and smaller jump engines could allow an otherwise "enormous" ship to be require half the infrastructure.
 

Offline jseah

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 03:56:47 PM »
I had done a few tests on that idea.  It certainly is possible but you end up paying in armour and shields. 

Armour on the engines don't absorb hits for armour on the weapons.  Likewise with shields. 
 

Offline PTTG

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 04:21:46 PM »
Consider a 100kT cargo hold, with virtually no other components. Effectively the space equivalent of a shipping container.

Of course, if you just attached this to a ship, you'd have a very slow ship that takes six weeks to load.

However, what if you make one single high-powered tug, and importantly, at least two cargo modules. While one hold is getting loaded, the other is being transported, and vice versa.

No waiting for loading, and you can move kilotons of cargo with ease. What's not to like?
 

Offline Elouda

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 08:55:53 PM »
The micromanagement?  8)
 

Offline chrislocke2000

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 03:56:08 AM »
The micromanagement?  8)

Exactly what I was thinking!
 

Offline Gidoran

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 04:20:45 AM »
Consider a 100kT cargo hold, with virtually no other components. Effectively the space equivalent of a shipping container.

Of course, if you just attached this to a ship, you'd have a very slow ship that takes six weeks to load.

However, what if you make one single high-powered tug, and importantly, at least two cargo modules. While one hold is getting loaded, the other is being transported, and vice versa.

No waiting for loading, and you can move kilotons of cargo with ease. What's not to like?

The up side to this is since this idea is all Civilian, you can still be using the same cargo/colony/terraforming module centuries later while updating the tugs. Doubly so for the Terraforming module as quite honestly you never need to upgrade those things once built.

Also, the cargo handling systems are very light comparatively, so you could easily just tack enough on to these shipping containers to make it less outrageous to load. I generally can manage with the base CHS 16 hours load time on an 80 kiloton freighter which has 50,000 storage. If you cut out all the engines I throw on because I'm addicted to speed, you could easily double the storage space and get a more reasonable timeframe.

That said, the micromanagement would be pretty annoying, as I bet most of us set up the civilian sector to go without our active attention while we focus on things that can't happen without micromanagement. Like survey ships and kinetic diplomacy.
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Offline sloanjh

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 08:25:01 AM »
From an anti-exploit point of view, Steve would need to make major changes to the civie purchasing/ordering code.  The cargo modules would look like commercial ships, and the civies wouldn't know that they needed to buy tugs to go with the ships, nor how to use them.  So you'd end up with a bunch of speed-0 civie TG clogging up the system.

John

[EDIT] Just to be clear, by "anti-exploit" I meant that this idea is the opposite of an exploit - it's an interesting idea that should be allowed by the game rules but the actual code won't support.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 08:47:00 PM by sloanjh »
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Towing "Modules"?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2011, 02:47:46 PM »
That wouldn't be an issue if steve goes with the civ-designed ships as discussed in the jumpdrive thread.