Building an early-ish defence force

[Victuz (OP)]

It's been a while since I played and missiles got changed quite significantly. I was never really that good at ship design but I think I got the basic ideas for my fleet in the specific game I'm playing right now.

Designs below but I'll write about the ideas for ships here:

1. Atlas MK.2 Missile Cruisers:

The literal backbone of my fleet. These guys are equipped with 18 Jester drones each (stats below) giving them pretty serious effective engagement range of 700m km. They are the embodiment of my battle doctrine that relies on detection at long range (with scout ships or long range scanners), They can empty their stocks of Jester drones in about 70 minutes (with maximum range travel time of 17 hours).
Although this should never come into play as one ship should be perfectly capable of heavily wounding or destroying an enemy ship at a similar tech level. with roughly 40 potential points of damage per salvo, and 360 points of potential damage in all.

They are not equipped with long range sensors of their own, only missile control so they rely on the presence of scout ships or dedicated sensor vessels like the Fabius.

2. Fabius Command Ships:

Command vessels with the majority of our sensor equipment. Their goal is to provide targeting information for other vessels. They're also equipped with a flag deck to act as central command in battle scenarios.
They are tougher than the Atlases with 6 points of armor due to the highest probability of becoming an initial target (due to active sensors). They don't have any weapon capabilities and rely entirely on other vessels for protection.

3. The Hephistos and the Dauntless class:

Hephistos class ships will serve as colliers for the fleet carrying up to 1352 units worth of missile equipment. Mainly Hellfire and Defender missiles (seeing as an Atlas that ran out of Jester missiles is either dead or going back for resupply anyway). The Dantless class serves as the task force fuel supply and support vessel. Unlike Hephistos that can stay behind in safe sectors the Dauntless always follows the task force, serving as the main supply of fuel on longer missions. Due to being the lifeblood of the task force the Dauntless is layered with the absolutely excessive 9 units of armor. Since deep within enemy territory,range provided by the dauntless might be the difference between life and death for other vessels.

4. Hellraiser Missile Destroyer:

Fast and deadly the Hellrasers are the main line of defence (or distraction) for vessels that get too close to the Atlases. While still reliant on sensor coverage from the Command Ships their 25m range Hellfire missiles and speed superiority allows them to get in "close" to the enemy vessels. To finish them off or to push them off if attacked while Atlases are reloading their Jesters. They can also serve as rudimentary missile defence in dire times being equipped with 20 Defender anti-missile-missiles.

5.? Laser missile defences/ final defenders.

As of yet I have not completed all the research I want to achieve satisfactory laser technology. But those ships will be similar to Hellrasers in design, being fast, nimble and with their main goal being missile defence.


So that was quite the block of text, now for the actual numbers:

Atlas MK.2 :

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Atlas MK.2 class Missile Cruiser    6,000 tons     130 Crew     1649.04 BP      TCS 120  TH 264  EM 0
4400 km/s     Armour 4-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 22
Maint Life 2.29 Years     MSP 515    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 133    5YR 1999    Max Repair 270 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 380    Cryogenic Berths 200   

Anar Research Inc 176 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (3)    Power 176    Fuel Use 57.11%    Signature 88    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 26.3 billion km   (69 days at full power)

Tahril-Agramos Angel (1 AM) (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Orobos-Tigurius (20) Drone Launcher (2)    Missile Size 20    Rate of Fire 600
Merrick-Ahriman Missile Fire Control FC37-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 37.8m km    Resolution 1
Merrick-Ahriman Missile Fire Control FC702-R60 (70%) (2)     Range 702.7m km    Resolution 60
Jester MK.1 (18)  Speed: 11,600 km/s   End: 1021.5m    Range: 712.5m km   WH: 0    Size: 20    TH: 38/23/11
Defender MK.1 (20)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 5.2m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 186/112/56

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The Fabius :

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Fabius class Command Cruiser    6,000 tons     168 Crew     2424.4 BP      TCS 120  TH 264  EM 0
4400 km/s     Armour 6-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 140/140/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.04 Years     MSP 758    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 243    5YR 3645    Max Repair 900 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   
Flag Bridge   

Anar Research Inc 176 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (3)    Power 176    Fuel Use 57.11%    Signature 88    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 28.9 billion km   (75 days at full power)

Trajan-Corbulo Active Search Sensor MR25-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 180     Range 25.2m km    MCR 2.7m km    Resolution 1
Trajan-Corbulo Active Search Sensor MR812-R65 (70%) (1)     GPS 46800     Range 812.7m km    Resolution 65
Thermal Sensor TH10-140 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-140 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Hellraiser :

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Hellraiser class Missile Destroyer    3,300 tons     74 Crew     839.16 BP      TCS 66  TH 264  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 3-19     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/14/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 159    AFR 87%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 69    5YR 1032    Max Repair 132 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 130   

Anar Research Inc 176 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (3)    Power 176    Fuel Use 57.11%    Signature 88    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 23.9 billion km   (34 days at full power)

Tahril-Agramos Angel (1 AM) (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Orobos-Tigurius Hellfire Launchers (2) (4)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 60
Merrick-Ahriman Missile Fire Control FC37-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 37.8m km    Resolution 1
Hellfire Control Battery (4)     Range 35.1m km    Resolution 60
Hellfire MK.1 (55)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 35m    Range: 25.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 2    TH: 104/62/31
Defender MK.1 (20)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 5.2m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 186/112/56

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-14 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



 Hephistos and the Dauntless :

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Hephistos class Collier    8,000 tons     100 Crew     1352.36 BP      TCS 160  TH 352  EM 0
4400 km/s     Armour 6-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/14/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.45 Years     MSP 1106    AFR 512%    IFR 7.1%    1YR 584    5YR 8760    Max Repair 132 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 1352   

Anar Research Inc 176 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (4)    Power 176    Fuel Use 57.11%    Signature 88    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 19.7 billion km   (51 days at full power)

Hellfire MK.1 (201)  Speed: 12,000 km/s   End: 35m    Range: 25.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 2    TH: 104/62/31
Jester MK.1 (30)  Speed: 11,600 km/s   End: 1021.5m    Range: 712.5m km   WH: 0    Size: 20    TH: 38/23/11
Defender MK.1 (350)  Speed: 16,000 km/s   End: 5.2m    Range: 5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 186/112/56

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-14 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Code: [Select]

Dauntless MK.2 class Support Vessel    6,000 tons     56 Crew     957.2 BP      TCS 120  TH 264  EM 0
4400 km/s     Armour 9-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 0
Maint Life 6.35 Years     MSP 3199    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 137    5YR 2048    Max Repair 132 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 0   

Anar Research Inc 176 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (3)    Power 176    Fuel Use 57.11%    Signature 88    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 2,250,000 Litres    Range 118.2 billion km   (310 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I don't quite know how to write up the missile stats nicely so I'll just plop a screen cap of the view tech window right here:
[



So what do you guys think? Decent enough?

[NihilRex]

Im half awake, getting ready for bed, so take this with a MOUND of salt.

Look at a size 5/6 ASM and 25 bus for slightly better performance.

Your Hellraisers are a bit weak for primary PD, in my opinion, you need more tubes and another CM fire control.

I usually dont make small missiles at MPD, I wait for internal fusion, but I use 3 for short range sprint missiles, and 5 for medium or long range torpedoes, depending on research acquired.  One of my favorite absurdities from making small missiles at low tech was a size 5 missile, which was a 3500km\s booster and sensors for a 64000km\s assault missile.

[Victuz (OP)]

Im half awake, getting ready for bed, so take this with a MOUND of salt.

Look at a size 5/6 ASM and 25 bus for slightly better performance.

Your Hellraisers are a bit weak for primary PD, in my opinion, you need more tubes and another CM fire control.

I usually dont make small missiles at MPD, I wait for internal fusion, but I use 3 for short range sprint missiles, and 5 for medium or long range torpedoes, depending on research acquired.  One of my favorite absurdities from making small missiles at low tech was a size 5 missile, which was a 3500km\s booster and sensors for a 64000km\s assault missile.

I'll think about using bigger missiles. I like the smaller ones mainly as personal preference rather than due to efficiency. Plus with early tech I rapidly encounter issues with manoeuvrability vs size, but regardless I'll play around with the idea. Especially since I have yet to make mines, and I need some strong gate defence that doesn't need 3 months to get there.

As for the Hellraisers, yeah I know they're weak PD wise, as I mentioned (taking into account you being tired ) their main goal is to drag fire away from the other ship if the enemy gets too close, thus they serve mostly in ship to ship combat, the idea being short brutal brawls. The PD is there as a place holder for when I finally design ships purely focused on it (might even be variation on the same design, I like fast and hard to detect PD).

[TT]

Victuz,

I'd make those missles faster.  Especially the size 1 AMMs.  At your tech I'd be aiming for at least 30,000 km/s for the AMMs and only a little south of that for your ASMs. 

[Victuz (OP)]

Victuz,

I'd make those missles faster.  Especially the size 1 AMMs.  At your tech I'd be aiming for at least 30,000 km/s for the AMMs and only a little south of that for your ASMs. 

Really? 30k km/s is way more than I've considered for magneto plasma O_o. Guess I'll check out some more engines.

[NihilRex]

Search around enough and you will find an excel spreadsheet with a missile estimator - I use it all the time, and love it.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Really? 30k km/s is way more than I've considered for magneto plasma O_o. Guess I'll check out some more engines.

One of the major factor for your decision on speed should be what speed the target has that you intend to fire the missile at. For example your long range missile only have around 15% chance to hit your own capital ships, this number should be closer to 80% to be a little more efficient. It is otherwise OK to reduce speed if you can and add armour for survivability, but actually being able to hit with the missiles should be a high priority. If your enemies have extremely low speed you might be OK though but at least your AMM should be faster so they can intercept missiles better.

[Victuz (OP)]

One of the major factor for your decision on speed should be what speed the target has that you intend to fire the missile at. For example your long range missile only have around 15% chance to hit your own capital ships, this number should be closer to 80% to be a little more efficient. It is otherwise OK to reduce speed if you can and add armour for survivability, but actually being able to hit with the missiles should be a high priority. If your enemies have extremely low speed you might be OK though but at least your AMM should be faster so they can intercept missiles better.

That's true, the actual payload of my long range missiles has a 31% chance to hit targets moving at 10000 km/s, and while that's by no means good I'm not expecting to encounter vessels faster than 6000 km/s at this time, this brings me closer to the 60% range for the Hellfires. And that should be enough with a decent amount of missiles tossed at the enemy. This fleet is also designed for defensive tactics rather than offensive meaning that after firing the enemies will be most likely (if my doctrine stands) flying towards my ships rather than away from them. making the delivery system of the Jesters work within the effective range.

For pure offence I'd probably be more inclined to use the Hellraisers and Laser Barges I'm working on right now.

As for the anti missile missiles, I agree. They're too slow, while I don't quite know what to expect missile wise (when it comes to speed) they probably won't hit that often seeing as they're just above 50% chance at 10k km/s. That has to be fixed, I was trying to work within the confines of a size 1 missile. But I'll probably have better luck effect when working with bigger ones.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

50%@10kkm/s  is not good, but not worthless either.  The theory with anti missiles has always relied on quantity to make up for poor hit rates and the Hellraisers simply do not have the tubes or magazine capacity to present an effective defence. 

The command ship presents some doctrine problems.The extreme long range of its primary sensor would suggest keeping the range open while the main group engages in combat, but it also carries the task group antimissile sensors and so must remain in formation.  Loss of a command ship is also a complete kill on a task group which kinda suuuucks.  the MOST bothersome thing though is that its sensor is so huge that it doesnt even carry enough MSP to fix it in case of a maint failure. You *must* do anything necessary to get enough engineering spaces on the ship to raise it above 900 MSP, ideally with a comfortable buffer.

I'd strip the antimissile systems from the Hellraiser and give it an active sensor capable of supporting the Hellfire system.   It could then effectively fill the Fast Attack role, or picket areas judged unworthy of a command ship.  If you want to keep the antimissile tubes consider creating a Hellraiser command variant that carries an antimissile sensor for operations away from the main body.

If you don't want to create a dedicated defence cruiser you should beef up the Atlas' antimissile launch capability and magazines.  A minimum-capability backup antimissile sensor would be a good idea IMO. Size 2.5-3 at resolution 1 would give you enough MCR to get one or two AMM salvos off, and preserve a minimum offensive capability in case of command loss. If necessary, reduce the Atlas' armor and fuel to gain capability.

An easy way to gain some tonnage in your designs overall would be to reduce the deployment time to 12 months or even less.  24 months is far longer than needed for ships with such poor maintenance lifespans.  If necessary cut into the armor on the Atlas.  A fragile ship but effective ship is worth more.