Carrier Doctrine Fleet

[Borealis4x (OP)]

I want my fleet's main striking potential to come from very light carrier-based fighters supported by long-range missile bombardments designed to soak up AMM missiles before sorties.

I realize these ships might be light on fuel, but its still rather early tech-wise and any major fleet I send out will be supported by tankers, colliers, and maintenance vessels.

Carrier

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Carthage class Carrier (P)      100,000 tons       2,194 Crew       19,111.3 BP       TCS 2,000    TH 9,600    EM 0
4800 km/s      Armour 8-191       Shields 0-0       HTK 446      Sensors 550/550/0/0      DCR 63      PPV 90.24
Maint Life 0.96 Years     MSP 6,650    AFR 1509%    IFR 21.0%    1YR 6,896    5YR 103,439    Max Repair 1417.5 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 30,000 tons     Magazine 2,202   
Commander    Control Rating 6   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 600    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP2400.00 (4)    Power 9600.0    Fuel Use 34.86%    Signature 2400.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 10,000,000 Litres    Range 51.6 billion km (124 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (12x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (6)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-1 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (30)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon 2M. 'Minute-man' Missile Point-Defense Fire Controller (10)     Range 24.3m km    Resolution 1

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 1050     Range 60.6m km    MCR 5.5m km    Resolution 1
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21000     Range 164.6m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 210000     Range 354.6m km    Resolution 200
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Capital Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 550     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  185.4m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Capital Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 550     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  185.4m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Cruisers

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Kiev class Missile Cruiser (P)      29,726 tons       782 Crew       5,409.1 BP       TCS 595    TH 2,880    EM 0
4844 km/s      Armour 6-85       Shields 0-0       HTK 151      Sensors 110/110/0/0      DCR 22      PPV 132.12
Maint Life 2.13 Years     MSP 3,364    AFR 589%    IFR 8.2%    1YR 990    5YR 14,847    Max Repair 480.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 1,584   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 20    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP960.00 (3)    Power 2880.0    Fuel Use 55.11%    Signature 960.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000,000 Litres    Range 54.9 billion km (131 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (6x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (3)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-4 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (34)     Missile Size: 4.0    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC107-R20 (30%) (1)     Range 107.5m km    Resolution 20

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 42000     Range 158.6m km    Resolution 200
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 4200     Range 73.6m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 210     Range 27.1m km    MCR 2.4m km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Gibralter class Light Carrier (P)      29,315 tons       581 Crew       5,043.6 BP       TCS 586    TH 2,880    EM 0
4912 km/s      Armour 6-84       Shields 0-0       HTK 133      Sensors 110/110/0/0      DCR 22      PPV 30.12
Maint Life 2.09 Years     MSP 3,290    AFR 573%    IFR 8.0%    1YR 1,008    5YR 15,118    Max Repair 480.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 7,000 tons     Magazine 724   
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 140    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP960.00 (3)    Power 2880.0    Fuel Use 55.11%    Signature 960.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000,000 Litres    Range 55.7 billion km (131 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (6x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (3)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 42000     Range 158.6m km    Resolution 200
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 4200     Range 73.6m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 210     Range 27.1m km    MCR 2.4m km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Destroyers

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Spartacus class Missile Destroyer (P)      9,876 tons       267 Crew       1,727.8 BP       TCS 198    TH 960    EM 0
4860 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 69      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 44.08
Maint Life 2.54 Years     MSP 786    AFR 156%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 171    5YR 2,559    Max Repair 240.00 MSP
Magazine 756   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00 (2)    Power 960.0    Fuel Use 77.94%    Signature 480.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres    Range 29.2 billion km (69 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (4x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (2)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-4 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (8)     Missile Size: 4.0    Rate of Fire 30
Raytheon 'Future-Fight' Series Fighter Missile Fire Controls (1)     Range 5.4m km    Resolution 1

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 420     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 4200     Range 50.1m km    Resolution 200
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Marlborough class Destroyer Escort (P)      10,000 tons       279 Crew       1,975.4 BP       TCS 200    TH 960    EM 0
4800 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 95      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 52.16
Maint Life 3.11 Years     MSP 857    AFR 160%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 133    5YR 1,999    Max Repair 240.00 MSP
Magazine 452   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00 (2)    Power 960.0    Fuel Use 77.94%    Signature 480.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres    Range 28.9 billion km (69 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (8x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (4)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-1 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (12)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon 2M. 'Minute-man' Missile Point-Defense Fire Controller (4)     Range 24.3m km    Resolution 1

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 420     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 4200     Range 50.1m km    Resolution 200
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Frigates

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Defender class Escort (P)      2,967 tons       107 Crew       737.3 BP       TCS 59    TH 384    EM 0
6471 km/s      Armour 3-18       Shields 0-0       HTK 32      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 8.16
Maint Life 1.47 Years     MSP 117    AFR 141%    IFR 2.0%    1YR 60    5YR 902    Max Repair 96.00 MSP
Magazine 37   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP192.00 (2)    Power 384.0    Fuel Use 123.24%    Signature 192.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 17.2 billion km (30 days at full power)

BEA Systems Twin 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (2x6)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-1 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (3)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon 2M. 'Minute-man' Missile Point-Defense Fire Controller (1)     Range 24.3m km    Resolution 1

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

Compact ECCM-1 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Fighters

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B-24 'Raider' class Bomber (P)      125 tons       2 Crew       32.8 BP       TCS 2    TH 40    EM 0
16077 km/s      Armour 1-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0.9
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 24%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 1    5YR 19    Max Repair 20.00 MSP
Magazine 6   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP40.00 (1)    Power 40.0    Fuel Use 1250.00%    Signature 40.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 1.16 billion km (19 hours at full power)

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-6 Missile Pod (1)     Missile Size: 6.00    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
Raytheon 'Future-Fight' Series Fighter Missile Fire Controls (1)     Range 5.4m km    Resolution 1

Raytheon 'Future-Fight' Series Fighter Active Search Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 3     Range 2.7m km    MCR 244k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


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SC-38 'Magpie' class Scout (P)      250 tons       6 Crew       59.1 BP       TCS 5    TH 40    EM 0
8007 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 4    5YR 57    Max Repair 20.00 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP40.00 (1)    Power 40.0    Fuel Use 1250.00%    Signature 40.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 84,000 Litres    Range 4.8 billion km (6 days at full power)

Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


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RS-23 'Stork' class Rescue Shuttle (P)      250 tons       2 Crew       39 BP       TCS 5    TH 40    EM 0
8007 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 2    5YR 32    Max Repair 20.00 MSP
Cryogenic Berths 400   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP40.00 (1)    Power 40.0    Fuel Use 1250.00%    Signature 40.00    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 86,000 Litres    Range 5 billion km (7 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


[nuclearslurpee]

The main thing that sticks out to me is a lack of endurance. Your fleet has a short deployment time (6 months) and the flagship carrier has less than a year of maintenance life. It's easy to say you can handle this by sending a large auxiliary fleet but the necessity to drag a slow fleet of support ships everywhere is going to slow down your ability to quickly deploy the fleet where it is needed, particularly when facing multiple and/or unexpected threats. Even with logistical support, the carrier in particular will be chewing through MSP very quickly which will put a strain on your home/base planet ability to keep up MSP production for the fleet.

I would suggest cutting down the size of the Carthage carrier by cutting down on the PD, AMMs, and maybe also sensors by outsourcing these roles to the smaller escort ships and building more of those instead. The Gibraltar CVL is much closer to what I would consider an effective carrier design, maybe still a bit heavy on the turrets but otherwise reasonable. I personally would just scrap the supercarrier and use the CVL, but that's just me.

The Marlborough class DE is your best design here and should be your PD/AMM workhorse ship, and you should be able to get 9-12 months of deployment time on the design by reducing the number of fire controls (you really only need two for redundancy, one BFC will provide PD against any number of missile salvos due to how beam PD was changed in C#).

I also think you have too many ship designs here. All you really need for a carrier fleet is a carrier class, a point defense escort, and usually an anti-fighter/FAC class which in this case the cruiser or missile destroyer can do that, you don't need both. The frigate is too small to do much of anything, especially with so much tonnage given to engines, armor, and redundant sensors, so I would either scrap it or relegate it for outer systems defense roles in your backwater areas.

Again, note that not every ship needs a full set of active sensors. Other people like having dedicated sensor ships; personally I like to give each ship only the active sensors it needs for its particular weapons so it is able to operate "independently" if necessary, and maybe have a dedicated fleet sensor boat if and only if I have other sensors I want to tote around that don't fit a role on another ship. This means your DEs really only need the short-range AMM/PD sensors, and the only ship that needs the mid-range sensors will be the missile cruisers/destroyers since these serve as your main defense against enemy FACs, and those in exchange don't need long range sensors.

[SpaceMarine]

Some things I want to point out,

1. There is a lack of a unison fleet standard speed, in a fleet you will always travel at the speed of the slowest ship, this can cause issues and reduces the effectiveness and efficiency of a fleet.

2. It seems your going for the US carrier strike group doctrine way of doing things which is quite cool and one i favour myself but you have to keep in mind that to do this kind of strategy you need to be able to support such groups with an auxiliary fleet containing colliers, tankers, hospital ships, transport vessels, maintenance etc.

3. Your carrier seems to have quite a few issues. one of those is that even at its massive size only 30% of the ship is in hangars, a carriers primary weapon should be its fighters especially with a doctrine such as this, so packing missile launchers onto it makes no sense, the fighters are the "Missiles", another thing is that you have way too many fire controls considering you have relatively few actual gauss weapons. Maintenance is also a massive issue you have an IFR on the carrier of 21% so every 5 days there is a 21% chance for a component to fail which is an ungodly high rate considering a normal destroyer someone would make has an IFR of 1% or less, this is probably due to lack of actual engineering spaces and the large size of the vessel.

4. For magneto plasma your fleet is quite slow besides the frigates, for magneto plasma i tend to favor 6400-7000km/s for fleet standard speeds,

5. again your mixing and matching and compromising on ships that are quite small, you need to specialise this is the benefit of having so many types of ships, the ability for each one to fulfil one role or purpose, as none of your ships really fill one role excellently they all just do an average job at a few things.

[Borealis4x (OP)]

I trimmed down the amount of ships (for now, they'll form the basis of subsequent variants) and improved speed and endurance across the entire fleet. I figured since each ship is meant to serve together in the same task force, they should all have the same speeds.

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Carthage class Carrier (P)      100,000 tons       2,208 Crew       17,880.7 BP       TCS 2,000    TH 9,600    EM 0
4800 km/s      Armour 6-191       Shields 0-0       HTK 401      Sensors 550/550/0/0      DCR 110      PPV 15.48
Maint Life 1.49 Years     MSP 11,175    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 5,616    5YR 84,240    Max Repair 2400.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 30,000 tons     Magazine 1,440   
Captain    Control Rating 6   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Flight Crew Berths 600    Morale Check Required   

150% Capital Engine (2)    Power 9600.0    Fuel Use 24.65%    Signature 4800.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 15,567,000 Litres    Range 113.7 billion km (274 days at full power)

BEA Systems Twin 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (6x6)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 210000     Range 354.6m km    Resolution 200
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21000     Range 164.6m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Capital Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 1050     Range 60.6m km    MCR 5.5m km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Capital Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 550     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  185.4m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Capital Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 550     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  185.4m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposess

The amount of hangar space hasn't changed and I don't want to divorce the ship from its sensors. Even if that might be more efficient, it would be a real pain to manage and I like to RP with the Carrier being the central figure of the Carrier Task Force. Adding more hangar space would mean also adding more magazines, which I just can't fit. As it is, if we assume that I fill the carrier with 125-ton bombers carrying size-6 missiles and launch them all at the enemy, I can only reload them from the carrier once. Hopefully that is enough.

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Kiev class Missile Cruiser (P)      30,000 tons       712 Crew       4,920.4 BP       TCS 600    TH 2,880    EM 0
4800 km/s      Armour 4-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 119      Sensors 110/110/0/0      DCR 22      PPV 97.74
Maint Life 1.36 Years     MSP 2,430    AFR 600%    IFR 8.3%    1YR 1,414    5YR 21,215    Max Repair 720.00 MSP
Magazine 1,560   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Morale Check Required   

150% Cruiser Engine (2)    Power 2880.0    Fuel Use 45.00%    Signature 1440.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 8,191,000 Litres    Range 109.2 billion km (263 days at full power)

BEA Systems Twin 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (3x6)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-4 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (30)     Missile Size: 4    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC107-R20 (30%) (1)     Range 107.5m km    Resolution 20

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 4200     Range 73.6m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Long-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 42000     Range 158.6m km    Resolution 200
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Cruiser Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 210     Range 27.1m km    MCR 2.4m km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Cruiser Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 110     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  82.9m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



Code: [Select]

Marlborough class Destroyer Escort (P)      10,000 tons       182 Crew       1,369.3 BP       TCS 200    TH 960    EM 0
4800 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 55      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 13      PPV 16.04
Maint Life 1.94 Years     MSP 496    AFR 267%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 172    5YR 2,575    Max Repair 240.00 MSP
Magazine 198   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Morale Check Required   

150% Escort Engine (2)    Power 960.0    Fuel Use 77.94%    Signature 480.00    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 4,501,000 Litres    Range 103.9 billion km (250 days at full power)

BEA Systems Quad 'Challenger' Gauss Cannon Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
BEA Systems R.32k/T.16k 'Challenger' Series Fire Controls  (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

UNSC Board of Naval Design Size-1 Missile Launch System Mk.1 (6)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon R.2M. 'Minute-man' Missile Point-Defense Fire Controller (1)     Range 24.3m km    Resolution 1

Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Mid-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 420     Range 23.3m km    Resolution 20
Cyberdyne Systems Corporation 'T-200' Series Short-Range Escort Active Sensor Suite  (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series TH Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Renraku Computer Systems 'Fujio' Series EM Escort Passive Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I don't know how people are getting more than 6000km/s out of Magneto engines with decent range. I don't think those speeds are necessary at this tech level anyways, unless you want a real aggressive beam ship or fighter.

[nuclearslurpee]

I trimmed down the amount of ships (for now, they'll form the basis of subsequent variants) and improved speed and endurance across the entire fleet. I figured since each ship is meant to serve together in the same task force, they should all have the same speeds.

snip

The amount of hangar space hasn't changed and I don't want to divorce the ship from its sensors. Even if that might be more efficient, it would be a real pain to manage and I like to RP with the Carrier being the central figure of the Carrier Task Force. Adding more hangar space would mean also adding more magazines, which I just can't fit. As it is, if we assume that I fill the carrier with 125-ton bombers carrying size-6 missiles and launch them all at the enemy, I can only reload them from the carrier once. Hopefully that is enough.

Definitely looks a lot better now as a fleet. On the carrier, it looks like the best way to make space for magazines would be to cut a layer of armor, and you could also cut the CIC module if you need a bit more room since the carrier shouldn't be doing a lot of shooting.

I don't know how people are getting more than 6000km/s out of Magneto engines with decent range. I don't think those speeds are necessary at this tech level anyways, unless you want a real aggressive beam ship or fighter.

Mainly cutting down the range quite a bit. Rarely do people build warships with 100b km ranges, usually somewhere in the 15-40b km seems more common. This is mainly just because your warships don't actually need to fly that far until fairly late in the game, and a lot of their deployment times tend to be spent sitting around rather than moving at high speed.

In this case running through an optimizer (E: assuming 0.7 fuel tech) shows that you can build a carrier that reaches 7000 km/s and 100b km range with two MP drives at size 350 and EP modifier 1.25, supplemented by some 11.5 million liters of fuel (230 HS). This comes out to a total of 930 HS for engines and fuel, or 46.5% of your total ship mass. That's a lot and definitely reduces the space you have for weapons, hangars etc. but many people will use this amount of space for propulsion to achieve high speeds. If you cut the range down to maybe 30b km, then two size 258 engines with a 1.70 modifier will give you 7,018 km/s and the desired range with 8.66m L of fuel (174 HS) which requires "only" 690 HS of engines and fuel for your ship (34.5%).

Actually for smaller ships it is trickier to get high speed and good range. For the 10,000-ton destroyer you would need two size-47 engines and a 0.95 EP modifier plus 1.58m L of fuel (31.6 HS), thus requiring 126 HS of engines and fuel (63%) to reach 7000 km/s and 100b km range, which is indeed prohibitive. Cutting the range down to 30b km gives a more manageable two size-35 engines with a 1.25x modifier and 1.09m L of fuel (21.8 HS), thus "only" needing a total of 92 HS (46%) to accomplish the goal.

That said, high speeds like this are more necessary for beam ships than missile ships. For missile ships I'd say 4,800 km/s is a bit slow and I'd prefer 5,000 km/s minimum. For beam ships with MP drives 7,000 km/s is a little high but I'd say 6,000 or 6,250 km/s is fine and should outpace most NPRs. In the case of a carrier fleet, as long as the fighters can outrun any larger enemy ships and the non-carrier ships do not need to close the range then a slower speed is acceptable in tactical terms. Strategically the response time may be too long, but this is difficult to tell and depends on how you manage your fleets and bases.

[Borealis4x (OP)]

The good thing is I'm satisfied with the allocation of components, so the only thing I have to change is the power of the engines. Currently that are at 150% power but could easily bump them up to 200% either before building or after through retrofits. Seeing as I have yet to even leave Sol (I take my time, I know) 100 billion is probably overkill atm.

[SpaceMarine]

To help give an example of magneto plasma ships with 6000km/s+ speeds I will list my three current mainstays of my navy, my destroyers.

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Vanguard class Destroyer Escort      7,500 tons       166 Crew       1,415.2 BP       TCS 150    TH 960    EM 0
6400 km/s      Armour 5-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 37      Sensors 20/27/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 42.24
Maint Life 1.64 Years     MSP 353    AFR 150%    IFR 2.1%    1YR 155    5YR 2,323    Max Repair 240 MSP
Trierarch    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Difede-Montejano Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00 (2)    Power 960    Fuel Use 69.84%    Signature 480    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 549,000 Litres    Range 18.9 billion km (34 days at full power)

Quad Small Point Defence Cannon Turret (16x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R48-TS16000 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Active Search Sensor AS19-R1 (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS88-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 89m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2.50-20.00 (1)     Sensitivity 20     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  35.4m km
EM Sensor EM2.50-27.50 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  41.5m km

Code: [Select]

Valiance class Destroyer Escort      7,500 tons       232 Crew       1,500.5 BP       TCS 150    TH 960    EM 0
6400 km/s      Armour 5-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 54      Sensors 20/27/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 35
Maint Life 1.60 Years     MSP 375    AFR 150%    IFR 2.1%    1YR 170    5YR 2,557    Max Repair 240 MSP
Trierarch    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Difede-Montejano Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00 (2)    Power 960    Fuel Use 69.84%    Signature 480    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 569,000 Litres    Range 19.6 billion km (35 days at full power)

BST-4 Particle Beam (5)    Range 192,000km     TS: 6,400 km/s     Power 10-4    ROF 15       
Beam Fire Control R192-TS6400 (1)     Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 6,400 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R20 (1)     Total Power Output 20.2    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS19-R1 (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS88-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 89m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2.50-20.00 (1)     Sensitivity 20     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  35.4m km
EM Sensor EM2.50-27.50 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  41.5m km

Code: [Select]

Deliverance class Destroyer Escort      7,500 tons       192 Crew       1,313.3 BP       TCS 150    TH 960    EM 0
6400 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 39      Sensors 20/27/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 21.12
Maint Life 1.46 Years     MSP 328    AFR 150%    IFR 2.1%    1YR 171    5YR 2,560    Max Repair 240 MSP
Trierarch    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

J7500(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 7500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Difede-Montejano Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00 (2)    Power 960    Fuel Use 69.84%    Signature 480    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 456,000 Litres    Range 15.7 billion km (28 days at full power)

Quad Small Point Defence Cannon Turret (8x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R48-TS16000 (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0

Active Search Sensor AS19-R1 (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS88-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 89m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2.50-20.00 (1)     Sensitivity 20     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  35.4m km
EM Sensor EM2.50-27.50 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  41.5m km

Each ship is built on the same hull, utilising the same engines, the engines which take up 33% of each ships tonnage are able to give them these 6400km/s speeds while not being completely dead in terms of fuel efficiency, like many player it is presumed for any long term deployments these ships will be supported by tankers, in the most recent combat situation vs precursors I had to do exactly that as the combat zone was around 30bkm away.

Total Breakup of component tonnage for the ships are as follows:

Engines: 33% of Tonnage Allocated
Weapons and Armour: 25-34% Tonnage Allocated (Vanguard has the most, deliverance the least)
Sensors and firecontrols: 10-18% of Tonnage Allocated
Fuel: 8% of tonnage allocated
Other: 5-8% tonnage allocated (stuff like crew quarters etc)
Special:  17% of Tonnage allocated (Jump drive and only effects the Deliverance)

As you can see the engines essentially match the weapons and armour in terms of tonnage.

To assist further I will also list the full specs of the main engine

Code: [Select]

Difede-Montejano Magneto-plasma Drive  EP480.00
Engine Power 480    Fuel Use Per Hour 335.2 litres    Fuel per EPH 0.7
Thermal Signature 480    Explosion Chance 12%
Military Engine
Cost 240   Size 1,250 tons   Crew 30   HTK 5
Base Chance to hit 100%
Materials Required: Gallicite  240   
I hope this has helped you understand how these speeds are possible for military ships at this tech level.

[misanthropope]

fast ships will burn your gallicite stockpile and leave you with too few ships and too little firepower.  slow ships will require longer endurances just to reach the bad guys, and require more total firepower worth of fleet, because crises travel in packs.  theres a tactical significance of the speed you choose too, of course, but unless its beams-only on both sides or you have specific advance knowledge of an opponent, it tends to imho be wildly overstated.

speeds are so circumscribed by engine tech that the most useful unit is _percentage_.  spacemarine's ships are "speed 40%"; 1/3 engine times 1.2 power mod.  just to underline one of spacemarine's implicit points, that's also just the right way to think about ships during the design phase.  "i want 40% speed, [range/ fuel efficiency/ fuel production consideration] suggests 1.2 power mod, so i will design a single 25 hull space engine and build my ships in multiples of 75 hull spaces."  you can get better ships with customized engines, but you get _better_ better ships spending the research elsewhere.

[Jorgen_CAB]

In my opinion the amount of research spent on the components of these ships are staggering at this stage of the development in general. If you spent all that energy to better your general research and built more of a defensive shorter ranged fleet until you meet an actual enemy you would be much better prepared to face whatever it is you are going to face.

Is there also some reason that the human government would spend this amount of research on naval assets when they don't even know of any hostile aliens or if there are any intelligent life at all out there, just asking... ...from a role-play perspective that is.


I also, for the most part, question the idea of having ships of any significant size being specialised, your ships are plenty large so you don't need to bother at all about that. The important thing is the role of the ships. An escort should be able to perform in that role and there is no real need to provide multiple ship types unless you have some specific knowledge of the enemy to warrant it. An escort who have both PD and long range beam weapons is generally a sound choice as it leave you much less vulnerable to be destroyed in detail of that specific capacity as you have more hull space to soak damage for every weapon type in any situation. It is better to have an average of 8 long range beams on 8 ships rather than 10 on two specially equipped ones if all else is equal in terms of speed etc...

In most of my campaigns I build ships based on roles and have them able to perform in that specific capacity. Most fleet escorts generally also perform patrols and reconnaissance in force missions. I rarely build fleet escorts smaller than 10-20k. So they usually are jack of all trades ships with some hangars for scouts and/or beam fighters, beam weapons, PD, AMM and some mid range ASM as self defence in either smallest internal launches or box launchers. ASM missiles can often be replaced with anti-small-craft launchers for double duty when in fleet formations, refitting ships usually is a very quick affair or sometimes the missiles can just be swapped for anti-small-craft missiles.

My battlecarriers at this stage of the game who are 100k+ tons are usually equipped with Commercial engines with 50% efficiency and max stealth technology to reduce their thermal signature as much as possible. The main job of the carrier is to never be seen and will need stealth to do that. The one you have will be seen hundreds of millions of kilometres with even rudimentary passive sensors. If the carrier drives at full speed a size 5 sensitivity 11 passive will see the ship at little over 180mkm away. The reason for using commercial engines would be cost in research, both for the engines, jump engines and my economy in terms of Gallicite and Fuel.

If you have 30k ton of hangars and you will need about 2-2.5 million tons of fuel for every sortie your fighters make, that have to be added to the overall consideration of the fleet as well... fighters and really fast ships will cost allot of fuel so you will need tankers or using large amount of space on your ships for fuel rather than power.

My battle carriers usually are about 25% hangars, 40% engines and then support system for the rest including some weapon systems. But they are obviously way slower than all other capital warship... but the role of the carrier is space dominance not speed. I would never deploy the carrier anywhere unless the area are properly scouted first.

Every ship in my fleet also carry hangars, most cruisers or the largest ship with a military drive will have about 10-15% hangar space too so can be used as mini-carriers for quicker operations. They carry fighters instead of long range ASM. At this stage of the game I never use long range ASM in ships... only short or medium range for self defence purposes for when things go wrong.

In my opinion you should not waste neither research nor resources on offensive forces unless you know what you fight so you can design components and know what parameters your ships need.


If I were in your shoes I would just build one long range cruiser mainly with defensive systems to survive an encounter and retreat. Their best means of defence would be able to see the enemy before they themselves are seen so you can observe and have them report back. Then you have container ships (commercial carriers) that ferry fighter-bombers between planetary bases and some dedicated short to medium range missile frigates that are fast and able to operate one system away from their base of operations as a defensive measure. Once an enemy is found, then I would start figuring about buildings a fleet with a space supremacy role.

We also have to consider that the main role of the fleet are to protect planets, bases and mineral extraction sites... all of which are permanent places in space. Objects in space also is ultimately going to be your targets in an offensive campaign and you don't need super speed for invading a planet, they really don't move that fast.. 
We also should not build a fleet to go up against equal odds fights... that is why you need good recon abilities so you know what to bring to the fight so you can overwhelm the enemy forces and most importantly surprise them.

Some part of your fleet will need good speed to be able to react to changing circumstances and as a means to engage an enemy... but in order to determine the necessary speed you will need to know what that needs to be first otherwise you just waste resources needlessly. In my opinion there are NO specific speed you need to build your ship for depending on what engine technology you possess. Every parameter on a ship must be figured out based on their role and the potential enemy and the overall terrain and area your are operating in.

[Borealis4x (OP)]

snip

I suppose its a debate over speed vs stealth. My thinking is that a Carrier Task Force should be anything but subtle and should not have to hide, and should be able to respond quickly to threats while being able to run away if it really needs to.

As for justifying why my empire needs a carrier in the first place when it hasn't encountered any ships, I admit it bothers me as well. I wish there was some reason to invest in small Patrol ships early on to keep the peace even when you haven't encountered any aliens, kinda like how garrisons are necessary.

On another note, what do people think about putting a beam weapon or two on the cruiser at the expense of some missile silos? It bothers me that I don't have any offensive weapons with unlimited ammo and am vulnerable if any ship gets up close.

[xenoscepter]

I suppose its a debate over speed vs stealth. My thinking is that a Carrier Task Force should be anything but subtle and should not have to hide, and should be able to respond quickly to threats while being able to run away if it really needs to.

As for justifying why my empire needs a carrier in the first place when it hasn't encountered any ships, I admit it bothers me as well. I wish there was some reason to invest in small Patrol ships early on to keep the peace even when you haven't encountered any aliens, kinda like how garrisons are necessary.

On another note, what do people think about putting a beam weapon or two on the cruiser at the expense of some missile silos? It bothers me that I don't have any offensive weapons with unlimited ammo and am vulnerable if any ship gets up close.

 - I'll preamble by saying I wholeheartedly disagree with Jorgen_CAB on the matter of why, as I have never really been able to justify not having some sort of competent Navy before or shortly after exploring Jump Points. After all... If I can cross the stars whose to say I'm the only one with such an ability? That said, small Patrol Ships give PPV, or Planetary Protection Value, which means you don't need garrisons everywhere as they apply their bonus to every planet in their system.

 - As for Beam weapons on a missile ship? Yeah, it can be worth it, but it's up to you. Here's an example of my own, a Frigate whose main role is to conduct AMM Escort as well as provide ancillary fire support and scouts:

Code: [Select]

Diligent class Frigate      6,250 tons       160 Crew       1,062 BP       TCS 125    TH 252    EM 0
4032 km/s      Armour 3-30       Shields 0-0       HTK 62      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 6      PPV 20
Maint Life 9.63 Years     MSP 1,550    AFR 48%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 30    5YR 454    Max Repair 141.75 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 375 tons     Magazine 140    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Flight Crew Berths 40    Morale Check Required   

Rahman General T1050-MP252/R50 Military-Grade Starship Drive (2)    Power 504    Fuel Use 16.81%    Signature 126.0    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 601,000 Litres    Range 103 billion km (295 days at full power)

Zingarelli Naval K320 Naval Particle Beam, Class 2 (2)    Range 320,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 5-5    ROF 5       
Zingarelli Naval T100/R320-TS5K Beam FCS, Standard Grade (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Kittleson Designs T43/10-2B100 Fusion Reactor, Stellarator-Type (1)     Total Power Output 10.2    Exp 50%

Kittleson Designs Class 1 Missile Launcher, S1/R3 (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Kittleson Designs T25/1R Missile Fire Control, Class 21-11 (2)     Range 12.1m km    Resolution 1
Kittleson Designs C1CMM "Diligent" (130)    Speed: 67,200 km/s    End: 0.3m     Range: 1.2m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 403/241/120

T100/21-11R1 Active Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     GPS 42     Range 12.1m km    MCR 1.1m km    Resolution 1
Sensor Calibrator [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
Sensor Calibrator [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

Strike Group
3x Sprinter Fast Scout Craft   Speed: 16118 km/s    Size: 2.48

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - I have a Nuclear Thermal template of this on the C3 Bureau of Design. Note: This design is Magneto-Plasma and while slow for it's era, it's meant to keep up with the Carrier Group that it is intended to protect.

[Borealis4x (OP)]

I suppose its a debate over speed vs stealth. My thinking is that a Carrier Task Force should be anything but subtle and should not have to hide, and should be able to respond quickly to threats while being able to run away if it really needs to.

As for justifying why my empire needs a carrier in the first place when it hasn't encountered any ships, I admit it bothers me as well. I wish there was some reason to invest in small Patrol ships early on to keep the peace even when you haven't encountered any aliens, kinda like how garrisons are necessary.

On another note, what do people think about putting a beam weapon or two on the cruiser at the expense of some missile silos? It bothers me that I don't have any offensive weapons with unlimited ammo and am vulnerable if any ship gets up close.

 - I'll preamble by saying I wholeheartedly disagree with Jorgen_CAB on the matter of why, as I have never really been able to justify not having some sort of competent Navy before or shortly after exploring Jump Points. After all... If I can cross the stars whose to say I'm the only one with such an ability? That said, small Patrol Ships give PPV, or Planetary Protection Value, which means you don't need garrisons everywhere as they apply their bonus to every planet in their system.

 - As for Beam weapons on a missile ship? Yeah, it can be worth it, but it's up to you. Here's an example of my own, a Frigate whose main role is to conduct AMM Escort as well as provide ancillary fire support and scouts:

Code: [Select]

Diligent class Frigate      6,250 tons       160 Crew       1,062 BP       TCS 125    TH 252    EM 0
4032 km/s      Armour 3-30       Shields 0-0       HTK 62      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 6      PPV 20
Maint Life 9.63 Years     MSP 1,550    AFR 48%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 30    5YR 454    Max Repair 141.75 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 375 tons     Magazine 140    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months    Flight Crew Berths 40    Morale Check Required   

Rahman General T1050-MP252/R50 Military-Grade Starship Drive (2)    Power 504    Fuel Use 16.81%    Signature 126.0    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 601,000 Litres    Range 103 billion km (295 days at full power)

Zingarelli Naval K320 Naval Particle Beam, Class 2 (2)    Range 320,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 5-5    ROF 5       
Zingarelli Naval T100/R320-TS5K Beam FCS, Standard Grade (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Kittleson Designs T43/10-2B100 Fusion Reactor, Stellarator-Type (1)     Total Power Output 10.2    Exp 50%

Kittleson Designs Class 1 Missile Launcher, S1/R3 (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Kittleson Designs T25/1R Missile Fire Control, Class 21-11 (2)     Range 12.1m km    Resolution 1
Kittleson Designs C1CMM "Diligent" (130)    Speed: 67,200 km/s    End: 0.3m     Range: 1.2m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 403/241/120

T100/21-11R1 Active Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     GPS 42     Range 12.1m km    MCR 1.1m km    Resolution 1
Sensor Calibrator [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
Sensor Calibrator [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

Strike Group
3x Sprinter Fast Scout Craft   Speed: 16118 km/s    Size: 2.48

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - I have a Nuclear Thermal template of this on the C3 Bureau of Design. Note: This design is Magneto-Plasma and while slow for it's era, it's meant to keep up with the Carrier Group that it is intended to protect.

I imagine Spinal Mounted guns are perfect for when you want to add offensive beam capabilities as a secondary function. It gives you the most bang for your buck.

I'm surprised you saw fit to add hangars of all things to such a small ship that is already doing a lot of roles at once. In my book any good escort should have at least Twin-mounted Gauss turrets which would be a much better use of the space imo. AMMs are great and all, but they can run out.

[xenoscepter]

 - Well, these are AMM focused Escorts, the main fleet has plenty sufficient Gauss and Laser Based PD such that these are only there to thin out truly massive waves such as those that certain spoiler races might be inclined to throw out, or perhaps the small craft of certain other spoilers. Restocking them only takes about 3.5 hours at base ordinance transfer tech, so a single collier could have a full squadron of six restocked in just under a day.

[Jorgen_CAB]

- I'll preamble by saying I wholeheartedly disagree with Jorgen_CAB on the matter of why, as I have never really been able to justify not having some sort of competent Navy before or shortly after exploring Jump Points. After all... If I can cross the stars whose to say I'm the only one with such an ability? That said, small Patrol Ships give PPV, or Planetary Protection Value, which means you don't need garrisons everywhere as they apply their bonus to every planet in their system.

In most of the games that I have played in the recent years it usually have taken me quite a while to come across any evidence for intelligent alien life, before that I don't think that we as a human species would create a large military force in space to defend our self unless it is against our self... which is the main reason I have had military ships of some sort before meeting an alien race. In those cases I only build notional fleets to deal with PPV issues or minor patrol crafts, unless I play a multi faction Earth start, then all bets are off...

I'm not saying it is wrong to build a fleet before you meet an alien race... I think you can have many role-play explanations for it.... just make sure it is justified if you role-play that is all I say.

[Jorgen_CAB]

snip

I suppose its a debate over speed vs stealth. My thinking is that a Carrier Task Force should be anything but subtle and should not have to hide, and should be able to respond quickly to threats while being able to run away if it really needs to.

As for justifying why my empire needs a carrier in the first place when it hasn't encountered any ships, I admit it bothers me as well. I wish there was some reason to invest in small Patrol ships early on to keep the peace even when you haven't encountered any aliens, kinda like how garrisons are necessary.

On another note, what do people think about putting a beam weapon or two on the cruiser at the expense of some missile silos? It bothers me that I don't have any offensive weapons with unlimited ammo and am vulnerable if any ship gets up close.

Sure this is all about doctrine... just that my doctrine that I proposed are way cheaper so you can get more ships and more advanced ones... that is what I was trying to say. The main problem is the amount of resources, both minerals and research you need for your ships. Especially in a situation when you don't even need them yet.... you must have a really Hawkish government back on Earth. 

You do need ships or stations to cover PPV but that exclude Earth itself though.

I think you still should consider your carrier doctrine because that is cool and I see no direct issues with your designs other than the enormous research costs, I would never be able to afford those costs in my games in general... although I usually play with about 10-15% research costs and a bunch of other self inflicted rules for usage of research complexes so I'm a bit biased here. 

I would just wait an develop the fleet once I found a real threat, that way you might have way better overall technology to combat that threat with. You are not going to go on the offensive day one you meet anyone anyway, not normally anyway. It also give you the knowledge about what you need so you can design the fleet based on the enemy designs after you had a chance to study them.