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Posted by: Erik L
« on: August 27, 2008, 11:56:38 AM »

Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
What was the repair cost? It's only about 50 I think to repair a geo sensor so it should have happened in two months
300 Phased scanners.
Ah, that does make sense now. A 1500 ton ship should be built at 60% of the normal shipbuilding rate. With an annual rate of 540, the ABP should be 324, which isn't too far from what you saw. The problem seems to be that your shipbuilding rate is only one step up from the base 400 rate (5000 RP) while you are using technology that is several levels higher (100,000 RP for the phased sensors). You are using a very primitive shipyard to repair a very advanced ship so the twelve months is probably reasonable.

If your shipbuilding rate was at a similar level to the ship tech, lets say the 125,000 RP level, it would be 4600 BP per annum, which would be 2760 for the 1500 ton ship and the 300 BP repair would take about six weeks.

Steve


The random tech start gave me some very good survey tech.
Posted by: SteveAlt
« on: August 27, 2008, 08:55:46 AM »

Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
What was the repair cost? It's only about 50 I think to repair a geo sensor so it should have happened in two months
300 Phased scanners.

Ah, that does make sense now. A 1500 ton ship should be built at 60% of the normal shipbuilding rate. With an annual rate of 540, the ABP should be 324, which isn't too far from what you saw. The problem seems to be that your shipbuilding rate is only one step up from the base 400 rate (5000 RP) while you are using technology that is several levels higher (100,000 RP for the phased sensors). You are using a very primitive shipyard to repair a very advanced ship so the twelve months is probably reasonable.

If your shipbuilding rate was at a similar level to the ship tech, lets say the 125,000 RP level, it would be 4600 BP per annum, which would be 2760 for the 1500 ton ship and the 300 BP repair would take about six weeks.

Steve
Posted by: Erik L
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:22:58 AM »

Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Playing with this I've noticed that smaller ships do take a lot longer. Maybe have the calculation have a lower boundary. Any calculation that falls below that, gets raised to it.

I just find it very odd that it takes 13 months to do a repair on 1500 ton ship. (The repair in question is the geo scanners on a geosurvey ship)
Tha does sound very strange. How big was the ship and what is your base shipbuilding rate?

Steve

Ship was 1500 tons, and the base rate was... 540 I think. The displayed ABP on the tasks was around 290 or so.
What was the repair cost? It's only about 50 I think to repair a geo sensor so it should have happened in two months

Steve

300 Phased scanners.
Posted by: SteveAlt
« on: August 26, 2008, 09:40:44 AM »

Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Playing with this I've noticed that smaller ships do take a lot longer. Maybe have the calculation have a lower boundary. Any calculation that falls below that, gets raised to it.

I just find it very odd that it takes 13 months to do a repair on 1500 ton ship. (The repair in question is the geo scanners on a geosurvey ship)
Tha does sound very strange. How big was the ship and what is your base shipbuilding rate?

Steve

Ship was 1500 tons, and the base rate was... 540 I think. The displayed ABP on the tasks was around 290 or so.

What was the repair cost? It's only about 50 I think to repair a geo sensor so it should have happened in two months

Steve
Posted by: Erik L
« on: August 26, 2008, 08:41:23 AM »

Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Playing with this I've noticed that smaller ships do take a lot longer. Maybe have the calculation have a lower boundary. Any calculation that falls below that, gets raised to it.

I just find it very odd that it takes 13 months to do a repair on 1500 ton ship. (The repair in question is the geo scanners on a geosurvey ship)
Tha does sound very strange. How big was the ship and what is your base shipbuilding rate?

Steve


Ship was 1500 tons, and the base rate was... 540 I think. The displayed ABP on the tasks was around 290 or so.
Posted by: SteveAlt
« on: August 26, 2008, 08:33:22 AM »

Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Playing with this I've noticed that smaller ships do take a lot longer. Maybe have the calculation have a lower boundary. Any calculation that falls below that, gets raised to it.

I just find it very odd that it takes 13 months to do a repair on 1500 ton ship. (The repair in question is the geo scanners on a geosurvey ship)

Tha does sound very strange. How big was the ship and what is your base shipbuilding rate?

Steve
Posted by: Erik L
« on: August 25, 2008, 03:34:28 PM »

Playing with this I've noticed that smaller ships do take a lot longer. Maybe have the calculation have a lower boundary. Any calculation that falls below that, gets raised to it.

I just find it very odd that it takes 13 months to do a repair on 1500 ton ship. (The repair in question is the geo scanners on a geosurvey ship)
Posted by: Michael Sandy
« on: May 07, 2008, 10:01:59 AM »

Interesting.  If the time to build modifier is based on size, rather than cost, then I expect merchant ships to get quite big.

That way, you tie up fewer slips for a given volume of shipping.

But as tech gets bigger, ships get more expensive per ton, so warships won't get as big as fast.

The only thing increasing merchant ship cost per ton will be increased engine costs, but some earlier analysis I did suggests that as engine cost increases, the proportion of space on a merchant ship devoted to them will decrease.  So while early merchant ships may actually be faster than warships, as tech increases, efficient merchant ships will be slower, and only specialized merchant designs will be able to keep up with the fleet.

The size increase also makes a big argument for Jump Gate construction.

Consider:
A race wants to be able to shift truly large amounts of infrastructure and industry.  It can go with a design that takes 1 year to build, or one with 8-10 times the capacity in 4 years.  It would have to build really large maintenance facilities, but when considering the possibility of terraforming worlds with multi-megaton duranium deposits, large ships look to be a bit more efficient.

A downside is that by building very large slips a race can go through a stockpile VERY fast.  And a bad guess about what size is efficient would be very costly indeed.

And here is another plus:
If you are interested in avoiding the Total Warfare paradigm of Starfire, this makes it possible to build very large planetary monitors that CAN'T go on the offense, due to a lack of jump ships.  So wars become a matter of lesser ships duking it out on the frontiers, for limited stakes.
Posted by: Haegan2005
« on: May 06, 2008, 07:54:36 PM »

point taken

Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
I went for 5000 tons as the base size mainly because that is size 100 and therefore its relatively easy to visualize how long a ship will take to build or how much effect a shipyard size will have a modification time. I could change it to 6000 tons but that would then make large ships slower to build than if the base is 5000 tons.

Steve
Posted by: ShadoCat
« on: May 06, 2008, 05:49:57 PM »

By all means, keep it at 5000.  I don't mind getting a bit if a speed boost for my ships.  <grin>
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 06, 2008, 07:30:31 AM »

I went for 5000 tons as the base size mainly because that is size 100 and therefore its relatively easy to visualize how long a ship will take to build or how much effect a shipyard size will have a modification time. I could change it to 6000 tons but that would then make large ships slower to build than if the base is 5000 tons.

Steve
Posted by: ShadoCat
« on: May 04, 2008, 02:15:44 AM »

I tend to shoot for 6000 tons except for specialty ships like terraformers and jump gate construction.
Posted by: James Patten
« on: May 03, 2008, 07:37:33 PM »

Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
The million ton dreadnought is possible...It might also take a while to gather the minerals. You'll probably have to strip mine an entire solar system


Didn't Imperial Star Destroyers take similar resources to build?
Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 03, 2008, 04:34:34 PM »

Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Steve, I found that a good median ship size is roughly 6000 tons. Smaller then this and its a specialist shipand larger then this and it becomes a multi-takser. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? :?:


6k tons is the point I shoot for in my starting tech games. It's a nice median size for just about anything. Escorts, offensive ships, scouts, and survey ships all have viable designs at this size. With the added bonus of an affordable jump ship design.

*edit*
And the base jump tech fits into this size a lot better than 5k tons.
Posted by: Haegan2005
« on: May 03, 2008, 01:32:31 PM »

Steve, I found that a good median ship size is roughly 6000 tons. Smaller then this and its a specialist shipand larger then this and it becomes a multi-takser. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? :?: