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Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 08, 2020, 02:53:22 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on May 08, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: skoormit on May 08, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
Option 6:  Build a giant structural shell that contains a refuelling hub and endless fuel tanks and deploy it with the harvester fleet.  Have all your harvesters unload to the shell, and your other ships fuel from the shell.

How do you make the harvesters unload to the shell?


It has to have the Refuelling Hub component to have the orders available, and it might not be possible with conditionals.  You may need to manually order the unloading every few years.

How do you manually order unloading?
I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't find any way to give a tanker an order to transfer fuel to another fleet.
I can only tell the other fleet to take fuel from the tanker, or I can merge the fleets.

Then tell the SS fleet to refuel from the tanker (or tanker fleet).  The key thing is to have both fleets / all units in the same place.  It may be that orbital movement screws this up, in which case you'll need the underway replenishment tech.  Maybe it's not possible at all, and everyone needs to wait for the various 'SM Equalize' buttons to be implemented.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 08, 2020, 02:45:23 PM »

Quote from: davidr on May 08, 2020, 10:13:53 AM
Father Tim ,

Thanks but that option is not really suitable for myself - I do not cheat by using SM to magically construct massive installations or vessels

1) A refuelling Hub is 100,000 tons to be placed in a vessel which also requires other components

2) Shipyards commence at 10,000 tons and each 10,000 ton increase can take at least 18 months to complete so with other ancillaries required it would take a minimum of say 20 - 25 years years to build a large enough shipyard

A Structural Shell can be built by industry (factories) at any colony with a Spaceport, and moved (slowly) by any ship with a Tractor Beam (which can be on the ship, or on the SS).
Posted by: skoormit
« on: May 08, 2020, 11:51:04 AM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: skoormit on May 08, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
Option 6:  Build a giant structural shell that contains a refuelling hub and endless fuel tanks and deploy it with the harvester fleet.  Have all your harvesters unload to the shell, and your other ships fuel from the shell.

How do you make the harvesters unload to the shell?


It has to have the Refuelling Hub component to have the orders available, and it might not be possible with conditionals.  You may need to manually order the unloading every few years.

How do you manually order unloading?
I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't find any way to give a tanker an order to transfer fuel to another fleet.
I can only tell the other fleet to take fuel from the tanker, or I can merge the fleets.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:28:51 AM »

It was trickier with VB6 because you only had the 90% of remaining fuel order, meaning that if you miscalculated, your tanker would get stranded between planets. With the absolute amounts that C# gives us in regards to tankers (the minimum fuel amount is liters, not percentage), you can calculate the amount of fuel the tanker needs in the worst-case scenario between Earth and Jupiter, put that number in as the minimum amount in the class design MISC window and then just leave the tanker doing it. I wouldn't give it more than 500 000 liters of capacity since your harvesters are small. Let it run for a few months and see whether your harvesters are empty or full - then either add harvesters or add another tanker.

Posted by: davidr
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:23:35 AM »

Garfunkel ,

Thanks - that is going to be my next work around . I will try and let the Harvesters sit at Jupiter and send Tankers to refuel and move the fuel to Earth. The Harvesters are only 80,000 tons each , not having a Refuelling Hub only a refuelling System. If I have 3 FH ( at present )  in a Fleet around Jupiter how many Tankers could fuel up at once - would it be 1 per FH ( total 3 )  or 1 per Fleet ( total 1)?


DavidR
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:14:39 AM »

Why don't you use a tanker to siphon off the fuel off your harvesters? Then you don't need to worry about percentages and automation. Make the tanker slow enough and/or small enough that it can keep running forever (with the cycle orders box ticked) between Earth and the harvesters.
Posted by: davidr
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:13:53 AM »

Father Tim ,

Thanks but that option is not really suitable for myself - I do not cheat by using SM to magically construct massive installations or vessels

1) A refuelling Hub is 100,000 tons to be placed in a vessel which also requires other components

2) Shipyards commence at 10,000 tons and each 10,000 ton increase can take at least 18 months to complete so with other ancillaries required it would take a minimum of say 20 - 25 years years to build a large enough shipyard
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:10:45 AM »

Quote from: skoormit on May 08, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
Option 6:  Build a giant structural shell that contains a refuelling hub and endless fuel tanks and deploy it with the harvester fleet.  Have all your harvesters unload to the shell, and your other ships fuel from the shell.

How do you make the harvesters unload to the shell?


It has to have the Refuelling Hub component to have the orders available, and it might not be possible with conditionals.  You may need to manually order the unloading every few years.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: May 08, 2020, 09:52:50 AM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 08, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
Option 6:  Build a giant structural shell that contains a refuelling hub and endless fuel tanks and deploy it with the harvester fleet.  Have all your harvesters unload to the shell, and your other ships fuel from the shell.

How do you make the harvesters unload to the shell?
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 08, 2020, 09:50:10 AM »

Option 6:  Build a giant structural shell that contains a refuelling hub and endless fuel tanks and deploy it with the harvester fleet.  Have all your harvesters unload to the shell, and your other ships fuel from the shell.
Posted by: davidr
« on: May 08, 2020, 09:01:27 AM »

Kaiser,

Many thanks,

Of course  - I did not think about Commander bonuses. Now how to circumvent that. I have Automated Assignments on so I presume even if I removed all the Commanders from the FH vessels , the AI would replace them. I do not want to be bothered with manual Assignments for all the Vessels - I have enough to do with manually applying the Admin Commands.

DavidR
Posted by: Kaiser
« on: May 08, 2020, 08:29:34 AM »

Because they may have different commander with different mining bonus. So 1 ship with a commander having mining 20% is faster that the one having a commander 10% mining or nothing at all.
Posted by: davidr
« on: May 08, 2020, 07:50:12 AM »

Father Tim,

I have used both your option 2)  and option 5 )

However I do use option 1)  when adding a newly built Harvester to the existing Harvester Fleet. This causes something very odd ( in my game at least ). I add the newly built Harvester to the fleet when it arrives at Earth ( all vessels then showing 9% fuel ). I then send them in 1 combined fleet to Jupiter to mine Sorium ( Jupiter at 1.0 accessibility ).

However the vessels ( identical builds ) for some weird reason in my game , do not fill up their storage tanks at the same rate. So I can have vessels in the same fleet with say 90% , 86% , 85% fuel onboard and when  I get the warning that a vessel is over 90% full this usually only refers to only 1 ship. I  use the conditional order that when fuel tanks are at 100% full then unload fuel at Earth up to the designated minimum. However this invariably means that I have to keep watching and waiting until the final vessel reaches 100% before I can send the whole fleet to Earth. 

The vessels never max out their fuel at the same time.

I wonder if anyone else has seen this?


DavidR 
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 08, 2020, 07:02:55 AM »

Quote from: davidr on May 08, 2020, 03:48:54 AM
Father Tim ,

I really need the equalise fuel facility for my Fuel Harvesters. They are independent powered vessels which commute between the Gas Giant and the Colony when full of fuel. If I add vessels to the Harvester Fleet their Fuel levels are at different percentages and therefore I need the equalise fuel facility ( as in VB6 ) so that all vessels in the fleet can return to the colony at the same time with 100% fuel onboard. At present , as you state it is impossible to carry this out and is a micromanage nightmare.

I do hope Steve will be able to add this facility in the not too distant future.

DavidR


Option 1:  Each time you add a vessel to the fleet, force the entire fleet to unload fuel (down to minimum) at the nearest colony.  This will synchronize the whole fleet's tanks.

Option 2:  Have each tanker in a separate fleet, using its own conditionals to "unload 90%" when full.

Option 3:  Have new-built harvesters fill their tanks to full before leaving the shipyards.  This will have them only harvest small amount of fuel until the whole fleet goes through an "unload 90%" cycle.

Option 4:  Manually edit each newly-arrived harvester to steal half the fuel from a long-service harvester.  This will waste less capacity.

Option 5:  Similar to 2 above, but with four or five harvesters per fleet, to reduce the number of fleets you're dealing with.   This is trading efficiency for micro-management.
Posted by: davidr
« on: May 08, 2020, 04:55:37 AM »

Spacemarine,

Thanks ,

However whatever I try with orders and conditional orders I cannot get my powered Fuel Harvesters to automatically move to the Gas Giant , wait until full , unload up to their minimum level back at Earth and then return to the Gas Giant

I Have tried to cycle orders and all the various combination of conditional orders but these orders seem to clear as soon as the vessel reaches Earth and unloads. Nothing at present seems to work for me with commuting FH vessels.


DavidR