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Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: June 01, 2020, 02:54:01 AM »

Quote from: Iceranger on May 31, 2020, 09:57:07 AM
Indeed using smaller sensors you can extend the coverage range. But for a full coverage, the 'forward' ship needs to be very forward, and the enemy may just shoot at your forward ships first.

If they fire missiles on your capital ships how on earth are they ever going to target your 500 ton fighters or 50t cloaked FAC at higher tech levels?!?

It is really easy to extend your anti ASM envelope that way. It also is difficult to know what speeds really ASM will have as really long range ASM can be quite slow. Especially if you also add in that you actively move AWAY from the incoming missiles, as you probably should, if the tracking bonus is important to defend yourself.

Sure every defence will have a counter, but so does every offensive tactic too.

Sensor scouts are extremely effective in Aurora C# when you look at the research and industry you need, in addition to this they are very dynamic and adaptable to a changing situation.

A typical example could be at Ion tech level... let's say your ships go 4000km/s and you shoot at missiles that travels about 27000km/s and you have a tracking speed of max 16.000km/s... this means the missiles will come in at roughly 23000km/s and you will need about 68% tracking (A bit high at this level but let's just try it anyway). I will need to track the missiles for about 7.8 million km. If I have a standard dedicated AMM sensor on my AMM ships at size 10 (Active 21, EM 11) and three small sensor scouts each with a size 6 sensor I could get get 100% tracking speed against those incoming missiles for a relatively low cost. I would assume these missiles are launched at a distance allot further than 30 million km out or I could just have attacked the source instead.

These defences are obviously mainly against long range ASM, not knife fighting ASM combat. As your speed can effect it then your faster escort destroyers who act as advances scouts can benefit allot more than your slower carriers that you hold back. If you also keep your sensor technology slightly better than your tracking technology you might also benefit more from this particular mechanic as well. Having generally better sensor technology have allot of other benefits so might not be something strange to find in general.

Then you also have the effect on slower tracking beam weapons that can have more benefit against slower longer ranged missiles... say rail-guns and things like that.
Posted by: DFNewb
« on: May 31, 2020, 10:43:45 AM »

you can get a few extra 5 second ticks off if your ships are moving away from the missiles.
Posted by: Iceranger
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:57:07 AM »

I did a similar analysis a while ago, and came to the similar conclusion. Below is a table showing the max missile speed for a 50HS RES1 sensor to gain full tracking bonus. Comparing that to equivalnent tech 4x beam PD tracking speed, it shows the 80% bonus is totally useless, 50% is questionably useful.



Indeed using smaller sensors you can extend the coverage range. But for a full coverage, the 'forward' ship needs to be very forward, and the enemy may just shoot at your forward ships first.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: May 31, 2020, 05:50:05 AM »

Interesting data... it certainly is worthwhile to have the tracking bonus technology.

One thing that I would point out though is that you can easily extend the overall range to detect incoming missiles with multiple sensor scouts. In C# this is way more efficient than at was in VB6. This way then three size 5 sensors can cover a distance of one size 50 sensor. These sensors fit on small fighters.

So the tracking bonus is easier to cover than might first appear to be the case.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 31, 2020, 01:12:39 AM »

I thought I'd take a look at Aurora's Missile Tracking Bonus feature.

The Missile Tracking Bonus applies a reduction to a BFC's speed penalty based on how long the missile has been tracked by sensors.  Every tick that a salvo is being tracked the defender accumulates 1% MTB, up to a limit determined by the Tracking Bonus tech.  How long a salvo can be tracked depends on both the defender's sensor range and the attacking missile's speed, and thus determines the maximum MTB that can accumulate.

In the attached chart, tech levels are defined as having all technologies up to and including a designated RP cost per tech.

We have three defending ships, designated Up(?), Diamond(?) and Down(?).
All three defenders get a 4x speed BFC and a resolution 1 active sensor at the current tech level.
Up gets a size 50 sensor, Diamond gets size 20, and Down gets size 1.

We also have three attackers, designated Blue, Green, and Yellow:
Blue is the 'least relevant' opponent, so they use missiles of equal speed to the defenders' BFC speed rating.  This is the fastest missile that does not provoke a speed penalty.  MTB only applies against missiles faster than Blue Team.
Green is a peer opponent, getting a missile of the same tech level as the defenders.
Yellow is a maximum tech opponent.  Yellow's missiles always travel at 270k km/s.

The MTB technology limit is marked by the red line.  Note that it is zero at TN start.  Usable MTB is the lower of the MTB tech limit and the sensor limit.  Sensors larger than the MTB limit are capped by the tech, while raising the tech above the sensor limit gives no benefit.

Green is equal to Blue at TN Start and gradually improves until matching with Yellow at tech level 5 million.  Green's zigzag pattern is because engine power upgrade costs alternate with other technologies.  The lines move up when defending sensor tech improves and down when attacking engine tech improves.

As expected, Down (size 1) is the bottom line in each colour group.
Against Blue, Down can get between 9 and 11% MTB at all tech levels starting from 2k.
Against Green this is reduced to 4 to 7%.
Blue can't even see Yellow's missiles until 60k RP, and never gets above 4% even at maximum tech.
Clearly, while a size 1 active is better than being blind, it is truly a last ditch option for PD.

Diamond (size 20) is the middle line in each colour group.
Against Blue, MTB techs up to 50% (125k RP) are usable, with the sensor peaking at 53% at the 500k RP level.
Against Green, MTB catches up at 24% (16k RP) and the sensor peaks at 27%.
Yellow's missiles can't quite sneak up on Diamond, but the sensor can't get above 10% until the 500k RP line, and it never gets above 19%.

Up (size 50) gets the highest scores, receiving the best possible sensors at every tech level.
Against Blue, only the MTB tech limit matters.  Size 50 sensors will always reach the tech limit against slow missiles.
Against Green, the tech limit catches up at 40k RP.  After that point even this sensor never gets above 43% MTB against peer opponents.
Against Yellow the sensor is the limit at all technology levels, only reaching 30% at the 2 million RP maximum for sensor technology.

Conclusion:  While the Missile Tracking Bonus tech line certainly has appeal, researching it beyond 40% (60k RP) is of dubious benefit due to sensor range limits.